Option's for PAF ?

[abtank10]

So, if you can't speak for the J-10B, then what's your rationale for saying that the Rafale is "better" than it in this regard?



The J-10B operates an AESA radar as well.



The J-10B does have data fusion (most modern fighters do). A comparison between the systems of the two platforms is and will remain a mystery until classified information is released, the prospect of which is unlikely.



It is agreed upon, in a prior post, that the Rafale does carry more weapons than the J-10B. However, the importance thereof, and hence the impact thereof on the aircraft's value, is hugely dependent on the context in which it will be used. Granted, the Rafale does offer a larger weapons load if the mission is a strike-oriented one. In air-to-air scenarios, however, the discrepancy exerts a much smaller effect.

Regarding weapons, nothing authoritative can be said until we get a closer look at the J-10B's weapons loadout.

Buddy u have to look at the larger picture..... Rafale is the main strike fighter of French airforce, j10 B is just an alternative fighter........look at J20 it will be China's main strike fifth gen fighter, efforts and quality is maintained for strike fighters......same way goes for J20 its a perfectly mastered machine.....so the bigger picture is rafale is a ground attack bomber.....and J10 B is an air dominance fighter, hence they lived happily ever after

 

[CHI RULES]

It is better to confess the strengths of enemies and to diagnose own weaknesses.
1) Rafael shall be most potent fighter if inducted in IAF so Pak will have to do some arrangements at least get mix of J10 & j11 b in limited numbers if radar updation or procurement of block52 F16s is not possible soon.

 

[Akasa]

Buddy u have to look at the larger picture..... Rafale is the main strike fighter of French airforce, j10 B is just an alternative fighter........look at J20 it will be China's main strike fifth gen fighter, efforts and quality is maintained for strike fighters......same way goes for J20 its a perfectly mastered machine.....so the bigger picture is rafale is a ground attack bomber.....and J10 B is an air dominance fighter, hence they lived happily ever after

Actually, fifth generation fighters will not be the mainstay aircraft of the PLAAF. They are very expensive to produce and there are hundreds of older aircraft due to retire as well. The J-20 isn't a strike aircraft; the closest thing to a fifth-generation strike aircraft will be the FC-31 for the PLAAF.

However, yes, the J-10B is an air defense fighter, and thus it is a bit different from the Rafale, but the two should be within the same league of each other in regards to the responsibilities they will adopt.

 

[The SC]

Buddy u have to look at the larger picture..... Rafale is the main strike fighter of French airforce, j10 B is just an alternative fighter........look at J20 it will be China's main strike fifth gen fighter, efforts and quality is maintained for strike fighters......same way goes for J20 its a perfectly mastered machine.....so the bigger picture is rafale is a ground attack bomber.....and J10 B is an air dominance fighter, hence they lived happily ever after

What happily ever after, the J-10B has the advantage of look down shoot down on the Rafale. It is a multirole fighter, and with this known capability (in informed circles), the Rafale won't be able to fulfill its ground strike mission while a deadly something with BVR ans AESA is watch it it from above...

 

[HariPrasad]

As usual Over Hyped about Rafale ...

Anything which Pakistan is going face is overhyped. Be it Rafale or Su 30 MKI or even Su 50 PAKFA.

 

[SQ8]

Anything which Pakistan is going face is overhyped. Be it Rafale or Su 30 MKI or even Su 50 PAKFA.

Let me rephrase that. Anything that India is going to buy is going to be overhyped, garlanded.. sindhured. and painted saffron till it resembles the ancient Indian spaceships or so help modern Indian thinking.

 

[gslv mk3]

Let me rephrase that. Anything that India is going to buy is going to be overhyped, garlanded.. sindhured. and painted saffron till it resembles the ancient Indian spaceships or so help modern Indian thinking.

Anything India will buy (or develop) would be ridiculed,belittled and compared to bullock carts by Pakistanis

 

[abdulbarijan]

It's been a very long time since I've been on here so please excuse my rusty reasoning --

So far from this thread we can conclude that

1- There is no jet in PAF's arsenal that can counter the Rafale.

2- JF-17 and virtually any Pakistani machine in the air is over hyped and under performing.

3- SU-30 MKI is a beast in itself and is the second best fighter in the air after the EF-2000 but where does that put Rafale whose induction is hyped as if IAF is getting a 6th Gen fighter or something -- (I'm genuinely curious to know what the Rafale offers above the MKI since this thread has already gone to the "X vs Z" thing which in the good old days was enough to get a thread closed, nothing against the OP)

4- J-10 A/B are junks, so are the J-11's and cannot come even close to the mighty MKI or Rafale, although the J-11B is a derived Flanker with massive upgrades, and lets not forget the upgrades of the J-10 B over the standard J-10, which again we dont know the very specifics to hence an accurate comparison can not be made at this point, but one can say that they do belong in the big leagues of the MKI, The Gripen NG's, Rafales, Falcon E's or EF-2000 --- but I should restate my point once again -- The J-10B or J-11B do not even COME CLOSE to the MKI's which is why the IAF was in process to buy 126 MMRCA which at that moment "was to counter China" which by the way as stated by the same people had no aircraft that was even close to the MKI ---


Lastly, as far as the options for PAF go, In my opinion the best way to go would be to invest in different Chinese/Russian SAM's and developing an integrated air defense network while going for the 5th generation option when it becomes available. One should notice that PAF is in better shape against IAF then it was in the 90's or the the first decade of 2000's.
Even in that period of time where PAF had no "stated BVR weapon in the inventory" and the Indian media was openly threatening surgical strikes and the Indian masses were supporting this course of action, the IAF thought other wise --

Now with the Induction of BVR, new platforms like the BLK-52, JF-17's the AWACS etc etc. things are looking alot better for the PAF, so lets not hype this one event to something it is not -- and on the topic, Ive seen many media outlets reporting that the original deal of 126 MMRCA has been scraped and now we're only looking at the 36 for now, and the future is clouded in mystery, which is not usually the case with the IAF deals, anyways when the deal was started it was to "replace the Mig-21's" -- so what is the IAF planning there (more MKI's or some LCA's maybe ?? )

 

[Windjammer]

Anything India will buy (or develop) would be ridiculed,belittled and compared to bullock carts by Pakistanis

No one is ridiculing the French technology, in capable hands it can be potent but when you have fanboys like below making ridiculous one liners, the bubble needs to burst.

These Rafales are for China border. They will be overkill for Pakistan. Dont waste your time by discussing Rafale.

 

[Abhitej]

block 52 F-16 , is potent fighter , and under circumstance can even beat Rafale ... but for now Rafale is ahead of F-16's ..
when i say PAF can request USA for 2 sqs of F-16's C/D block 52 , that will work as stop gap .. and rest funds can go towards J-31 and Jf-17 program

F-16 was not even allowed to compete in MMRCA contract which Rafale won. Americans fielded F-18. **** F-16 will be countered by Mig 29 & Mirage.

 

[abdulbarijan]

F-16 was not even allowed to compete in MMRCA contract which Rafale won. Americans fielded F-18. **** F-16 will be countered by Mig 29 & Mirage.

There was F-16 IN which did compete in the MMRCA , but I suppose the reason for American fighters not being selected was the Transfer of Technology stipulation that was in place back then, now we or atleast I dont know what is going to happen as far as the TOT is concerned because there is no mention of it, as India is now buying 36 Rafales straight from France ---

Oh and by the way, how do you visualize an air combat ?? like there will be pilots announcing on the radio " RESPECTED PILOTS FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER!!!! !!! Im in an F-16, so please come and counter me with your M2K's or Mig-29's"

It is some what clear from your response to rockstar08 that you've got some what of a superiority complex when it comes to Rafales or MKI's -- Let me just make it clear, We from the Pakistani side KNOW that MKI or Rafales as a whole are better machines then anything we have today BUT Historically speaking, jets that were touted as inferior have many times defeated jets that were at that point considered the best in the world so an air war/battle isn't as simple as --- you've got an MKI or Rafale and I dont have something that is EXACTLY on the same level, and you automatically win --

If that were the case we would have had strategic strikes on Pakistan after 26/11, but we all know that didn't happen after PAF vowed a furious response, things such as force multipliers, tactics, training even the conditions that an air fight occurs in can dramatically change the outcome -- so its not as black and white as you make it sound ---

 

[Abhitej]

There was F-16 IN which did compete in the MMRCA , but I suppose the reason for American fighters not being selected was the Transfer of Technology stipulation that was in place back then, now we or atleast I dont know what is going to happen as far as the TOT is concerned because there is no mention of it, as India is now buying 36 Rafales straight from France ---

Oh and by the way, how do you visualize an air combat ?? like there will be pilots announcing on the radio " RESPECTED PILOTS FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER!!!! !!! Im in an F-16, so please come and counter me with your M2K's or Mig-29's"

It is some what clear from your response to rockstar08 that you've got some what of a superiority complex when it comes to Rafales or MKI's -- Let me just make it clear, We from the Pakistani side KNOW that MKI or Rafales as a whole are better machines then anything we have today BUT Historically speaking, jets that were touted as inferior have many times defeated jets that were at that point considered the best in the world so an air war/battle isn't as simple as --- you've got an MKI or Rafale and I dont have something that is EXACTLY on the same level, and you automatically win --

If that were the case we would have had strategic strikes on Pakistan after 26/11, but we all know that didn't happen after PAF vowed a furious response, things such as force multipliers, tactics, training even the conditions that an air fight occurs in can dramatically change the outcome -- so its not as black and white as you make it sound ---

There were no strikes on Pakistan after 26/11 because we had a weak political leadership. Today it is different. And why strike Pakistan when they are doing good job at destroying itself internally. Strikes on Pakistan would have united Pakis & ended all the internal conflicts. Today military doctrine of India has changed. It is no longer big bang attacks that will get world attention but sustained small strikes by small arms on border and cause substantial damage.

 

[HariPrasad]

Actually there is not going to be any major change in balance of power. Balance had tilted highly in favor of India since the arrival of MKIs. Rafale shall add some numbers. The advantage Rafale over MKI is very low RCS and ground attack. By the time Rafale comes, india would have added almost equal or more MKIs to India fleet.

 

[IND151]

There was F-16 IN which did compete in the MMRCA , but I suppose the reason for American fighters not being selected was the Transfer of Technology stipulation that was in place back then, now we or atleast I dont know what is going to happen as far as the TOT is concerned because there is no mention of it, as India is now buying 36 Rafales straight from France ---

Oh and by the way, how do you visualize an air combat ?? like there will be pilots announcing on the radio " RESPECTED PILOTS FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER!!!! !!! Im in an F-16, so please come and counter me with your M2K's or Mig-29's"

It is some what clear from your response to rockstar08 that you've got some what of a superiority complex when it comes to Rafales or MKI's -- Let me just make it clear, We from the Pakistani side KNOW that MKI or Rafales as a whole are better machines then anything we have today BUT Historically speaking, jets that were touted as inferior have many times defeated jets that were at that point considered the best in the world so an air war/battle isn't as simple as --- you've got an MKI or Rafale and I dont have something that is EXACTLY on the same level, and you automatically win --

If that were the case we would have had strategic strikes on Pakistan after 26/11, but we all know that didn't happen after PAF vowed a furious response, things such as force multipliers, tactics, training even the conditions that an air fight occurs in can dramatically change the outcome -- so its not as black and white as you make it sound ---

Historically speaking, jets that were touted as inferior have many times defeated jets that were at that point considered the best in the world so an air war/battle isn't as simple as

Sabre vs Gnats?

 

[rockstar08]

Anything which Pakistan is going face is overhyped. Be it Rafale or Su 30 MKI or even Su 50 PAKFA.

I'm Scared ..............