Option's for PAF ?

[R@m-R@heem]

Welcome to the PDF and if you need help you can ask in appropriate thread.

Sure

 

[araz]

I am new to this forum.. So still getting to know how the various functions perform.. The "quote " thing is a lil confusing!!
But will keep ur advise in mind.. Thanks

The most irritating thing for me is this stupid this vs that contest. I don't know how many of you have actually been in a war. What do you remember of the 1971 war if at all. Let me tell you it is not a nice experience to have your parents worried sick about being bombed or your father being away from home with all of you being worried about 2hether he will return or not. Have you ever seen people with their brains blown out or shot through the heart with blood oozing from the front and back. I can assure yoh it is not a nice sight
Now on the topic at hand this whole debate needs to be seen in the context of an environment where there would be cover from the AWAACS. In that environment how much value would a plane have when the true war would be confined to offloading your BVRs and scooting away. The things that would matter would be serviceability, short time between sorties sò turn around time and to some extent electronic measures and counter measures. We know that twin engined aircrafts disadvantage is longer turn around due to their twin engines. Their advantage would be longer time on station higher weapon load and the fact they could be used for deeper interdiction and be parked away out of reach of the enemy aircrafts.
The situation has been sullied by long range missiles which can strike with reasonable accuracy and low yield nuclear weapons. Now in this scenario have a jolly good time thinking of an encounter. The problem is further compounded by the fact that the more vulnerable a nation feels the lower would be its nuclear thresholds. In the light of these considerations you can understand the slight trepidation with which I view these threads. The fact is that you can never view an acquisition in light of its capability but in the light of what it adds to the theatre of engagement. The indian AF is bigger and theoretically in a war it will mostly overwhelm PAF. The question is whether it is a cost worth paying. If you analyse 5he 2002 scenario in spite of better equipment IA did not venture inside Pakistan. Yet how many of us have thought it out. You may win but is it really worth it? Is the cost worth the benefit. This is the million dollar question one needs to answer.
Regards
Araz

 

[Mrc]

I Personally feel early induction of j 31 is what they should work on. Mean while jf 17 should be inducted in good numbers and given aesa upgrade

 

[Viper 94]

as of now PAF does not have any aircraft to counter 270 SU-30s
PAF can only counter the mig-29 and mirage 2000 with f-16 and jf-17s the rest of the fighters in both air forces are
running out of time if not already
IAF intends to replace those obsolete fighters with rafale while PAF is gonna go with more JF-17s with upgrades or more second hand F-16s or it might exercise its option for more block 52+
I would be more worried about the large number of SU-30s rather than rafales
PAF needs a dedicated air superiority fighter the best option i think is Eurofighter typhoon
the chinese aircraft are either still in developmental stage, are not available for export eg. J-11 or do not fit the role
if PAF could acquire a handful of eurofighters that would be a huge boost in air defence capability while the rest of the fleet which consists of multirole fighters can engage ground targets

 

[SQ8]

Didn't Pakistan struggle with keeping F16 for CAP during Kargil?

Not as much as they should have. They could not continue it on a war footing... This statement explains the situation best from ACdre Kaiser.

F-16 CAPs could not have been flown all day long as spares support was limited under the prevailing US sanctions.

Essentially, the spares that the PAF had managed to procure from here and there were not in the quantity designed to sustain constant wartime level CAP operations whilst guaranteeing wartime availability as well.

The IAF had an availability of 55-57% before the NDA come to power.. And that had been increased to 67%... This happens NOT in. Decade but in a span of. 9months... Give it time and we would have an 80% Plus availability in about two years!!

One would hope from the PoV of the IAF that it is the case, I'd hate to have a fleet worth billions of dollars of which 1/3rd just sits on the ground. As one learns the platform and associated fallacies with it, the ways to tackle those shortcomings are progressively found too.

 

[mkg00179504]

Here in Europe the nations of Nato and others are replacing their F16 with euro canards or F35 lightening.

Whislt everybody admires the falcon we acknowledge it is a fighter that is no longer cutting edge.
Really, do even know about the F16 block 60,61. It can knock out anything. I ll take F16 block 60,61 any day over these new shiny toys with nil kills and war experience to its name.
its cockpit sensor fusion radar and ew suites is inferior to the euro canards especially the rafale

its single engine cannot super cruise and is full generation older than the crystal blade engines of euro canards.

 

[NIA]

Please3 check the date of publication of the article 2010. It is old news.
Araz

Yeah I know because I posted here......How old it must be ....they lost a pilot....

 

[SrNair]

Lol.

J-10B has same delta-canard configuration as Eurocanards. This allows it to move swiftly at high-altitude in order to make use of its AESA radar/sensor fusion to knock out opponents from beyond-visual range.

Both Chinese and UK defence experts consider it a real challenge to Eurofighter and so who cares what you think.

Delta wing is unstable and highly manevourable .Even LCA has that pure delta wing .So what ?
European fighters have a long history of real time combat .Comparing with it ;J 10 is just a paper plane.Go and google about the Thales avionics .You dont have any idea.

If you think your EU made Rafale is that super and China can't make advance tech then please after 2025 do send som of your Rafales against Chinese 5th gen. Because even at that time EU will not have their own 5th gen manned jet. They only have US option to have 5th gen jet for now.

Your Super MKIs will not be able to beat J-11Bs when they will be upgraded, and for now your current MKIs cant even touch J-11B as later has huge AESA and other advance goodies which MKI lack, J-11B will be able to take first shot on MKIs.

Again a funny post.
@Gabriel29 can explain about the future version of Rafale .EU concept of 5 th gen is quite different that they will upgrade with next gen avionics .
And after we will have FGFA that can take any other fifth gen fighter in this planet.


What do you know about MKI ?Even the original designers Russians agreeded that they are most advanced version of Flanker series.Almost equal to Su 35 and that is why we didnt purchase the Su 35 even if they offered.Copy paste J 11 will be have their own limitations.

Cheerleading is good job for you.But we are talking about the reality.

 

[gslv mk3]

Oh i was just wondering, the Indians once referred to their MKI as the Raptor of East, until it started ejecting out the pilots and the blame game started,

Su 30 MKI is still a very capable fighter,and is being made much more capable with an AESA radar,uprated engines ,BrahMos missiles & the new EW suite

but i guess we will need to wait a couple of years for that when the Indian flag even gets painted in France.

'when the Indian flag even gets painted in France'-Well if you are intending to mock India's aerospace industry,let me remind you that you produced your first fighter in the 2010s,while we have been doing it since the 1950s..

Your Super MKIs will not be able to beat J-11Bs when they will be upgraded, and for now your current MKIs cant even touch J-11B as later has huge AESA and other advance goodies which MKI lack, J-11B will be able to take first shot on MKIs.

While the current PESAs on the MKI scores over Cassegrain antenna radar of J 11, the Super MKIs would have an X band AESA.-there would be fin & wing mounted arrays too for secondary airspace surveillance & missile approach warning

In WVR MKI performs better due to the TVC

 

[Windjammer]

Su 30 MKI is still a very capable fighter,and is being made much more capable with an AESA radar,uprated engines ,BrahMos missiles & the new EW suite

I am sure in capable hands, it's a potent machine, however before adding all the extras, you may first want them to be airworthy since presently even the MiG-21 probably has a better sortie rate.
''Concurrently, the Modi government is also trying to improve the serviceability of the 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for over $12 billion. It is just 55% for the 200 Sukhois inducted till now. The DRDO-HAL combine is also being pushed for faster induction of 120 indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft. "The gap can be filled," said Parrikar.''

'when the Indian flag even gets painted in France'-Well if you are intending to mock India's aerospace industry,let me remind you that you produced your first fighter in the 2010s,while we have been doing it since the 1950s...

i agree with you on this thus makes it all more bewildering , why that over over 50 years of experience is not being injected into your LCA programme. !!!

 

[gslv mk3]

i agree with you on this thus makes it all more bewildering , why that over over 50 years of experience is not being injected into your LCA programme. !!!

50 years of experience is injected into it,that is why it is in service with IAF today.

''Concurrently, the Modi government is also trying to improve the serviceability of the 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for over $12 billion. It is just 55% for the 200 Sukhois inducted till now. The DRDO-HAL combine is also being pushed for faster induction of 120 indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft. "The gap can be filled," said Parrikar.''

Its improving.

 

[Erroroverload]

Well i think PAF should not go for anything right now.They should save there money and keep investing in JF17 program.Because i think it is highly not possible that their would be an encounter between IAF and PAF, because both nations have nuclear weapons . so save your money and keep upgrading JF17.

 

[Nilesh Singh]

India brought Rafale for 2 primary reasons:

1. They wanted to reduce dependence on Russia - successful

2. They hoped for technology transfer that would allow them leapfrog in aerospace field - not successful.

It is ok fighter, bearing in mind it came into service in 2001, but nothing special.

Your post are some of the most moronic one i have read on PDF. Even you know deep down that what you are posting is full of stupidity. Come on man at least be resonable when you are comparing, It seems you are biased to the core.

 

[Basel]

Delta wing is unstable and highly manevourable .Even LCA has that pure delta wing .So what ?
European fighters have a long history of real time combat .Comparing with it ;J 10 is just a paper plane.Go and google about the Thales avionics .You dont have any idea.



Again a funny post.
@Gabriel29 can explain about the future version of Rafale .EU concept of 5 th gen is quite different that they will upgrade with next gen avionics .
And after we will have FGFA that can take any other fifth gen fighter in this planet.


What do you know about MKI ?Even the original designers Russians agreeded that they are most advanced version of Flanker series.Almost equal to Su 35 and that is why we didnt purchase the Su 35 even if they offered.Copy paste J 11 will be have their own limitations.

Cheerleading is good job for you.But we are talking about the reality.

Mister before commenting go study or work in defense organization and also don't be bias too.

If Rafale can become 5th gen then JF-17 can be 5th gen too. What a joke.

Your super MKI bleed to much energy while using TVC and here it will be killed mostly in combat over Pakistan skies (if war ever happened). Before saying any thing against China please tell me what you know about there capabilities?? can you threat USN in future if at any point interest collides with them?? No, you can't but China can and will if neccessary, this is what capability China has and India lacks.

Su 30 MKI is still a very capable fighter,and is being made much more capable with an AESA radar,uprated engines ,BrahMos missiles & the new EW suite



'when the Indian flag even gets painted in France'-Well if you are intending to mock India's aerospace industry,let me remind you that you produced your first fighter in the 2010s,while we have been doing it since the 1950s..



While the current PESAs on the MKI scores over Cassegrain antenna radar of J 11, the Super MKIs would have an X band AESA.-there would be fin & wing mounted arrays too for secondary airspace surveillance & missile approach warning

In WVR MKI performs better due to the TVC

For that J-11B+ will have EODAS in future can Super MKI have it in its upgrade?? It is a fact that J-11B is superior to current MKI and when it will be upgraded it will be superior to Super MKI. period.

 

[gslv mk3]

Your super MKI bleed to much energy while using TVC and here it will be killed mostly in combat over Pakistan skies (if war ever happened)

Usual fairy tales..Su 30 MKI has much more than 2 dimensional TVC

For that J-11B+ will have EODAS in future can Super MKI have it in its upgrade?? It is a fact that J-11B is superior to current MKI and when it will be upgraded it will be superior to Super MKI. period.

Source ?
EO systems would always be inferior in range,and they cannot be used for jamming data-links.J 11 b is not superior in any aspect except having an AESA radar-And that is being tackled now.