Options for PAF After India Selects Rafale for MMRCA

[VCheng]

Jet-Table by vcheng552000, on Flickr

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

How will the MiG 29SMT's fare in the entire Indo-Pak air war-hypothetical scenario?
As it is stationed approximately 100 KMs from the IB and may be first Indian jet to get to the scenario.

 

[ManuZ]

soo the discussion was about the option for PAF against indian MMRCA....
Soo anybody have any sensible suggestion on that other than trolling?

 

[帅的一匹]

soo the discussion was about the option for PAF against indian MMRCA....
Soo anybody have any sensible suggestion on that other than trolling?

Induction J10b and integrate more advanced western avionics system on it. That is simple, cheap for PAF with less interest rate burden by loan, with no risk of being sanctioned cause the airframe and engine is made in china.

 

[帅的一匹]

China is willing to provide PAF PESA radar if they need.

 

[Secur]

Induction J10b and integrate more advanced western avionics system on it. That is simple, cheap for PAF with less interest rate burden by loan, with no risk of being sanctioned cause the airframe and engine is made in china.

Signed the deal long ago ... I dont know why people are over reacting !

Simple Question : Which one will become operational first ? J10 or Rafale ? Has the MMRCA deal even signed yet ? In the meantime JF17 BlK 2 will keep coming ... Whats the problem then ?
The J10 deal back in 2007 and they will be delivered by the end of 2013 at worst ( First Squadron ) ... Do Indians now consider the Rafale to be more capable than previous " God's gift to Aviation " SU 30 MKI ? What new things does it bring on the table ? We are already developing J2xx with China ...

 

[The enlightened]

IMHO
The best hope for PAF in this situation is to try to get it's hands on F-16 Blk 60 or even higher.

 

[帅的一匹]

Signed the deal long ago ... I dont know why people are over reacting !

Simple Question : Which one will become operational first ? J10 or Rafale ? Has the MMRCA deal even signed yet ?
The J10 deal back in 2007 and they will be delivered by the end of 2013 at worst ( First Squadron ) ...

At the time the first squad of J10b arrived doing their first public display, I wanna fly to Pakistan to see it by myself. I can't wait that glory moment to come. Hopefully some nice Pakistani brother in this forum will show me the way as guider hah hah!

 

[The enlightened]

Signed the deal long ago ... I dont know why people are over reacting !

Simple Question : Which one will become operational first ? J10 or Rafale ? Has the MMRCA deal even signed yet ? In the meantime JF17 BlK 2 will keep coming ... Whats the problem then ?
The J10 deal back in 2007 and they will be delivered by the end of 2013 at worst ( First Squadron ) ... Do Indians now consider the Rafale to be more capable than previous " God's gift to Aviation " SU 30 MKI ? What new things does it bring on the table ? We are already developing J2xx with China ...

What does it matter if J10 comes first or Rafale. They'll need quite some time to be fully integrated in the doctrine's of their respective AF's plus their pilots would take quite some time getting used to those birds. In this regard I believe both IAF and PAF would be evenly matched because PF pilots get to train on the Chinese jets whereas IAF with their pilots doing about 200-300 flight hrs per year on their jets would catch up quick.
As far as Su 30MKI is concerned. You don't need to worry about it. It is significantly better than anything PAF has or planned in the near future and well, since we don't know the exact nature of it's MLU, it's hard to say about it vis-a-vis Rafale F3. But even it's current state it is quite a match for the Rafale. And your J-2X, do let me know when it comes out.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

closed for moderating

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

1. By above post it looks like PAF can face any force or whole world in defensive mode but that's not the reality.

My post does not suggest that at all, at least not unconditionally - how effective and advanced a net-centric war-fighting capability a military possesses will depend on the number and quality of assets deployed that make up the entire system, as well as how refined and tested the actual doctrine utilizing all those assets to their maximum potential is.

2. And for net centric warfare the most important requirement are:

a.) Dedicated communication satellite which PAF don't have IAF will have by 2014.

Not necessarily - the AWAC's and various other ground and air based systems that Pakistan possesses do not require satellite communication in order to be integrated into the overall C4 system.

What additional advantage would a satellite provide, over the existing C4 system, in terms of a war with India?

What will PAf will do if communication is cut off.

Satellite communication, as part of net-centiricity, will be routed through ground or air based C4 systems - as will non-satellite based communication - so in either case one side can disrupt communications of the other by going after the non-satellite based C4 nodes.

b.) Dedicated spy satellite which PAF don't have but IAF have.

Useful for developing intelligence BEFORE hostilities start - I fail to see their use during the course of a short one or two week war. And Pakistan can access satellite imagery from other sources.

3. You are not ignoring:

a.) Dependance on USA for spares etc.

Hence the shift away from the F-16 as the main fighter platform - but that said, the PAF was able to keep the F-16's flying through almost a decade of US sanctions, and has enough spare parts to keep them flying during the course of a short war.

b.) Kill switch in F 16s

Science Fiction, and unsubstantiated.

c.) Blinding of PAF by USA through denial of GPS as they have done it in Iraq.

How will it blind the PAF? The PAF is not planning on flying around the world - it is going to be deployed primarily in Pakistani airspace and perhaps across the IB in Indian air space during the course of a war, and Pakistani pilots did just fine landing their aircraft during past wars when they did not have GPS capability in their air-craft.

Other than that, long range detection, coordination, ECCM etc. support for PAF fighters will be provided through the C4 network being set up, which will include the SAAB and ZDK AEW&C's, not satellite communication.

 

[The enlightened]

So has this thread been reopened

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So has this thread been reopened

Yes, after about 200 deleted posts.

 

[The enlightened]

Yes, after about 200 deleted posts.

Thanks. We all here keep complaining about how the mods are biased, how they aren't competent enough, blah blah blah blah
but the truth is that you guys have done an excellent job in maintaining the sancity of this forum.
Anyways coming back to topic I now believe the best option for Pakistan would be to improve it's economy, it's relations with India and drop it's support if any for terrorism.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Let us see what would be induction date of the first squadron of Rafa's in IAF? We than figure out the their effective integration into IAF as an effective tactical tool for the airforce.

I suspect that by the time Rafa's are inducted, we would start getting our FC-20's with PAF test pilots, engineers, etc in China long before that. Therefore, I do not see much of huh hah on the Rafa. It is a good plane no doubt aobout that. I for one thought the EFT was a better a/c. But than I am not the one dishing out dollars.

What evenues are open now after the selection of the French a/c for Pakistan? There would be some warming up to Paksitan by Russia or vice versa. The EFT/Grippen also becomes a choice even more. But than the economy becomes an issue.

India will keep pressure on Russia to not to entertain Pakistan (They will have close to 70% Russian a/c in their inventory). They will also keep on dangling, Transport, MPA's, & Helos and associated weapons and systems infront of US compaines. Hence some leverage on the order book.

If we had better relations and money, it would have been interesting times viz a viz US buy options. US companies must be smarting under the French choice....