Options for PAF After India Selects Rafale for MMRCA
- Thread starter fatman17
- Start date
- Status
rajnikant
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2011
- Messages
- 638
- Reaction score
- 0
You can be sure as hell, one of the parameter by the IAF was no confidence in single engine jets, hence you never see the likes of MiG-21s/27s, Mirage-2000 or even the Tejas for republic day fly past.Is that why you are still perusing the several decades old LCA dream, alas, poor innovations can not be nurtured.
neither the poor economy and rotten mindsets windy....go enjoy ur thunder till it last..and spare us from vocab diarrhea..which you seems to enjoy ..and sometime I think that you post just to test that only..without any logic...but with only one motive to derail the thread...
OTOH...I m loving it...Rafale
regular
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,615
- Reaction score
- 0
Yeah! we can definitely get them too ...but I guess we don't need them......you can also get PAK FA before 2015
shuntmaster
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2010
- Messages
- 2,916
- Reaction score
- -26
- Country
- Location
whatever happens, Pakistan's disadvantage vis-a-vis India with regards to geography will not change.
After 9/11 Pakistan can say good-bye to the strategic depth doctrine in Afghanistan.
Kazhugu
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 7, 2011
- Messages
- 2,128
- Reaction score
- 0
why is everyone thinking that raffy is for pak border....one or two squadrons might be based on air bases on western front...but the majority of the fighters will be geared towards the threat from north-eastern border....none of the aircradts that pakistan possess warrants a fighter like rafale to counter....the (heavily) upgraded fulcrums, mirages and sukhois can easily handle anything pak throws at india now or in the future...
so imo pak doesn't need to do anything...
the long game for iaf is not paf...but rather plaaf...
so imo pak doesn't need to do anything...
the long game for iaf is not paf...but rather plaaf...
Awesome
RETIRED MOD
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2006
- Messages
- 22,023
- Reaction score
- 5
I don't think India's decision is a solid one either and I don't see any timetables being met as well (lets face it till now none were met as well).
Indications are that the French were the lower bidders, which further indicates that the Indian financial crises played its role. The amount of INR that it would have cost India has exponentially increased since the rupee devalued. Moreover we still don't know if the Rafale can even take on the Su-30 MKI.
Pakistan needs to continue on its path of upgrading JF-17s and then moving to J-10s and J-20s.
I didn't quite understand the relevance of your Afghanistan comment.
deckingraj
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2009
- Messages
- 5,192
- Reaction score
- 4
- Country
- Location
What do you mean??? Defensive force doesn't mean zero offense, no???
mautkimaut
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2010
- Messages
- 849
- Reaction score
- 0
I would say skip J-10 and go for J-20.
Since India is not waging any war, it will be better if you guys wait for a few years and go for J-20.
Rafale is for ground strike and should be a good match for MKI.
IT is not going to face the MKI but JF-17 and F-16, which i think it will be able to handle.
deckingraj
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2009
- Messages
- 5,192
- Reaction score
- 4
- Country
- Location
Comon!!!...this point has been explained many times right in this thread..please do your homework before posting...something deployed in the east doesn't mean will/should not be used in the west if push comes to shove...
Kazhugu
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 7, 2011
- Messages
- 2,128
- Reaction score
- 0
hold on....how does rafale being the lowest bidder indicate indian financial crisis...?and i think you are not following news..the rupee is back to the 49/dollar and is expected to rise even more...
you are correct buddy
only defense not offense
---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------
Rest of the 80 fighters may be f-35 to please u.s,soon RFI may be issued
Kazhugu
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 7, 2011
- Messages
- 2,128
- Reaction score
- 0
my post was targeted towards the pakistanis....and honestly this point was raised a couple of times at the max....
yes when push comes to shove the rafales based in east will be used as per op requirements..but my point is that the technological disadvantage caused by the rafale to paf will be insignificant from a pak perspective because there was no equality to start with either...
when water goes above your head, it doesnt matter if its just an inch or a meter...its the same..
fatman17
PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 32,563
- Reaction score
- 98
- Country
- Location
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2012
Rafale chosen as India's MMRCA
Rahul Bedi Correspondent - New Delhi
Gareth Jennings - Aviation Desk Editor - London
Key Points
•The Dassault Rafale has been chosen as the preferred bidder for India's Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft competition
•The Rafale beat the Eurofighter Typhoon to win a deal that will see the Indian Air Force buy at least 126 aircraft for about USD10.6 billion
Dassault has been selected as the preferred bidder for the Indian MMRCA fighter procurement programme after its Rafale fighter beat off competition from the Eurofighter Typhoon.
Dassault Aviation's Rafale has bested the Eurofighter Typhoon in the contest to supply the Indian Air Force (IAF) with 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), it was announced on 31 January in New Delhi. The decision marks the first export order for the type.
Official sources said representatives of the two aircraft were summoned to the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and told that the Rafale had been selected as it was the lowest bidder, or L1. No details of the bids were available but sources indicated that Dassault's price was about 15-17 per cent less than Eurofighter's.
Unconfirmed sources, quoting senior officials, said that the Rafale was around USD5 million cheaper than the Typhoon per aircraft.
Defence Minister A K Antony said no deal would be signed before the end of March. "It is a long process. The file has not come to my table," said Antony, adding that the Finance Ministry and a Cabinet panel headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh also had to examine the contract terms.
MoD officials told Jane's that a final round of price negotiations with Dassault would follow during the next few weeks to finalise the contract and that the deal, estimated at more than USD10.4 billion, would be signed sometime in the financial year beginning in April.
The Rafale's final cost, however, is expected to rise above the MoD's sanctioned USD10.4 billion figure as it will be determined by benchmarking against its global market sale price. Dassault will also be required to defray 50 per cent of the total contract value in local offsets, largely in the military sector.
According to the contract terms, 18 Rafales will be acquired in fly-away condition within 36 months of the deal being signed. The remaining 108 will be built locally by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Bangalore. The final contract will also offer the IAF the option to acquire an additional 75-80 Rafales, raising the total number to more than 200.
Senior IAF officials said the Rafale would complement the IAF's 51 Dassault Mirage 2000H fighters presently being upgraded by Dassault-Thales-MBDA to the Mirage 2000-5 standard.
"The Rafale is a technologically sound 4.5-generation fighter that has adequately proved its omni-role capability in the recent Libyan campaign," retired Air Marshal V K Bhatia said. "It will more than meet the IAF's requirements over the coming decades."
Following the announcement, French President Nicolas Sarkozy issued a statement, saying: "France is pleased with the Indian government's decision to select the French aircraft [and] to enter into exclusive negotiations with Dassault.
"The Rafale has been selected thanks to the aircraft's competitive life-cycle costs, after the April 2011 pre-selection on the basis of its top-level operational performance. The negotiation of the contract will begin very soon and has the full support of the French authorities.
"It will include important technology transfers guaranteed by the French government. The realisation of the Rafale project will illustrate the depth and scale of the strategic partnership between France and India."
When asked to respond to the decision, an India-based official from EADS, the German partner in Eurofighter that led the Typhoon bid in India, told Janes : "We lost, they won; it's all over." In an official statement, Eurofighter said that, while it is disappointed with the outcome, it respects the decision of the Indian MoD.
"Based on the Indian government feedback, we will now carefully analyse and evaluate this situation together with our European partner companies and their respective governments," the official added.
The Rafale and Typhoon were shortlisted in April 2011 from an original MMRCA contest that featured the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin F-16IN, Saab JAS 39 Gripen and United Aircraft Corporation MiG-35.
COMMENT
India's decision to procure the Rafale came as a surprise to many industry observers who had predicted the Typhoon's greater industrial base and superior combat capabilities would win the day for the international fighter aircraft.
However, it is worth noting that, despite the repeated assertions that the Typhoon was ahead in the race, it had consistently been recognised that the Rafale was the more affordable of the two platforms, both in terms of unit price and support costs.
Throughout the selection process, the IAF said that the competition would be weighted towards the cheapest platform. The Rafale's selection, therefore, should not be regarded as being quite so unexpected.
Technically speaking, the competition between the Typhoon and Rafale was finely poised, with both platforms being highly capable and combat proven. While the Typhoon has superior performance statistics and a long-term upgrade path mapped out, the Rafale has an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar already in place and operational.
In addition, the Rafale is a carrier-capable platform, whereas the Typhoon is not; Eurofighter had offered to developed a maritime variant of the Typhoon had it secured the Indian contract. While the MMRCA programme has no naval component to it, interoperability between the air force and navy was seen to be an advantage over the long term.
In terms of industrial relationships between the competing companies and India, Dassault had already sold it Mirage 2000 fighter to the IAF and had recently signed a contract to upgrade these platforms. Dassault's longstanding relationship with the Indian Ministry of Defence may have gone a long way to securing the Rafale deal.
While Dassault built on the already-strong ties it has with India, Eurofighter instead opted to pursue a completely contrary approach, whereby the German member of the consortium - EADS - was charged with leading the bid despite having no history in the country. Many felt that the consortium's UK partner - BAE Systems - would have been the more obvious choice given the strong historical ties that already exist between the two countries.
With the Indian MMRCA competition now seemingly over, Eurofighter has to hope that the projected Typhoon sale to Oman materialises, and that ongoing competitions in markets such as Malaysia, Qatar and South Korea yield better results to secure the aircraft's production run.
For Dassault, securing the Rafale's first export order might just be the springboard it needs as it looks to win future orders in Brazil, the United Arab Emirates and elsewhere.
Rafale chosen as India's MMRCA
Rahul Bedi Correspondent - New Delhi
Gareth Jennings - Aviation Desk Editor - London
Key Points
•The Dassault Rafale has been chosen as the preferred bidder for India's Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft competition
•The Rafale beat the Eurofighter Typhoon to win a deal that will see the Indian Air Force buy at least 126 aircraft for about USD10.6 billion
Dassault has been selected as the preferred bidder for the Indian MMRCA fighter procurement programme after its Rafale fighter beat off competition from the Eurofighter Typhoon.
Dassault Aviation's Rafale has bested the Eurofighter Typhoon in the contest to supply the Indian Air Force (IAF) with 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), it was announced on 31 January in New Delhi. The decision marks the first export order for the type.
Official sources said representatives of the two aircraft were summoned to the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and told that the Rafale had been selected as it was the lowest bidder, or L1. No details of the bids were available but sources indicated that Dassault's price was about 15-17 per cent less than Eurofighter's.
Unconfirmed sources, quoting senior officials, said that the Rafale was around USD5 million cheaper than the Typhoon per aircraft.
Defence Minister A K Antony said no deal would be signed before the end of March. "It is a long process. The file has not come to my table," said Antony, adding that the Finance Ministry and a Cabinet panel headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh also had to examine the contract terms.
MoD officials told Jane's that a final round of price negotiations with Dassault would follow during the next few weeks to finalise the contract and that the deal, estimated at more than USD10.4 billion, would be signed sometime in the financial year beginning in April.
The Rafale's final cost, however, is expected to rise above the MoD's sanctioned USD10.4 billion figure as it will be determined by benchmarking against its global market sale price. Dassault will also be required to defray 50 per cent of the total contract value in local offsets, largely in the military sector.
According to the contract terms, 18 Rafales will be acquired in fly-away condition within 36 months of the deal being signed. The remaining 108 will be built locally by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Bangalore. The final contract will also offer the IAF the option to acquire an additional 75-80 Rafales, raising the total number to more than 200.
Senior IAF officials said the Rafale would complement the IAF's 51 Dassault Mirage 2000H fighters presently being upgraded by Dassault-Thales-MBDA to the Mirage 2000-5 standard.
"The Rafale is a technologically sound 4.5-generation fighter that has adequately proved its omni-role capability in the recent Libyan campaign," retired Air Marshal V K Bhatia said. "It will more than meet the IAF's requirements over the coming decades."
Following the announcement, French President Nicolas Sarkozy issued a statement, saying: "France is pleased with the Indian government's decision to select the French aircraft [and] to enter into exclusive negotiations with Dassault.
"The Rafale has been selected thanks to the aircraft's competitive life-cycle costs, after the April 2011 pre-selection on the basis of its top-level operational performance. The negotiation of the contract will begin very soon and has the full support of the French authorities.
"It will include important technology transfers guaranteed by the French government. The realisation of the Rafale project will illustrate the depth and scale of the strategic partnership between France and India."
When asked to respond to the decision, an India-based official from EADS, the German partner in Eurofighter that led the Typhoon bid in India, told Janes : "We lost, they won; it's all over." In an official statement, Eurofighter said that, while it is disappointed with the outcome, it respects the decision of the Indian MoD.
"Based on the Indian government feedback, we will now carefully analyse and evaluate this situation together with our European partner companies and their respective governments," the official added.
The Rafale and Typhoon were shortlisted in April 2011 from an original MMRCA contest that featured the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin F-16IN, Saab JAS 39 Gripen and United Aircraft Corporation MiG-35.
COMMENT
India's decision to procure the Rafale came as a surprise to many industry observers who had predicted the Typhoon's greater industrial base and superior combat capabilities would win the day for the international fighter aircraft.
However, it is worth noting that, despite the repeated assertions that the Typhoon was ahead in the race, it had consistently been recognised that the Rafale was the more affordable of the two platforms, both in terms of unit price and support costs.
Throughout the selection process, the IAF said that the competition would be weighted towards the cheapest platform. The Rafale's selection, therefore, should not be regarded as being quite so unexpected.
Technically speaking, the competition between the Typhoon and Rafale was finely poised, with both platforms being highly capable and combat proven. While the Typhoon has superior performance statistics and a long-term upgrade path mapped out, the Rafale has an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar already in place and operational.
In addition, the Rafale is a carrier-capable platform, whereas the Typhoon is not; Eurofighter had offered to developed a maritime variant of the Typhoon had it secured the Indian contract. While the MMRCA programme has no naval component to it, interoperability between the air force and navy was seen to be an advantage over the long term.
In terms of industrial relationships between the competing companies and India, Dassault had already sold it Mirage 2000 fighter to the IAF and had recently signed a contract to upgrade these platforms. Dassault's longstanding relationship with the Indian Ministry of Defence may have gone a long way to securing the Rafale deal.
While Dassault built on the already-strong ties it has with India, Eurofighter instead opted to pursue a completely contrary approach, whereby the German member of the consortium - EADS - was charged with leading the bid despite having no history in the country. Many felt that the consortium's UK partner - BAE Systems - would have been the more obvious choice given the strong historical ties that already exist between the two countries.
With the Indian MMRCA competition now seemingly over, Eurofighter has to hope that the projected Typhoon sale to Oman materialises, and that ongoing competitions in markets such as Malaysia, Qatar and South Korea yield better results to secure the aircraft's production run.
For Dassault, securing the Rafale's first export order might just be the springboard it needs as it looks to win future orders in Brazil, the United Arab Emirates and elsewhere.
- Status
Similar threads
