‘Ops in tribal areas could split Pak army’

[blitz]

Ok, then from your responses, should i assume that in your opinion, the current stand of Pakistan regarding Kashmir is in the interest of Pakistan ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok, then from your responses, should i assume that in your opinion, the current stand of Pakistan regarding Kashmir is in the interest of Pakistan ?

Peace is always in the best interest of all parties concerned. I think most rational Indians and Pakistanis would agree that a resolution of the Kashmir issue would be the ideal situation. However, the "devil is in the details"; how is it going to be resolved? I personally favor the idea of the Kashmir valley going to Pakistan while Jammu and Laddakh stay with India, or even a jointly administered/autonomous region, but thats a different issue.

From my point of view, a continuation of the stalemate, though not ideal, does not hurt Pakistani interests either (or affects them marginally). As I argued, and I am open to counter arguments that bring up issues I may have neglected, Pakistan has very little to gain from a complete normalization of ties with India at this point. Regardless of the Kashmir issue being "resolved", I don't believe that military expenditure would be cut down in the foreseeable future. So the "re-allocation" or "prioritization" of resources, that some have argued is bogging down other sectors of Pakistan, would not occur for a considerable amount of time, if at all. There is no need for "rushing" into an "unfavorable" or "pro-India" solution. IMO Pakistan can wait until the Indians develop the political will/capital to also offer concessions.

 

[blitz]

Got it. Thanks Agnostic.

 

[IceCold]

It will never happen no matter who comes into power in india, they will not give an inch of kashmir to pakistan not without a fight, a fight which neither 1 of us can afford. There is practically no solution to this issue and it will hang another 50yrs like it had in the past.

 

[Adux]

If people are going to talk about Kashmir issue, the status quo of the erstwhile king of Kashmir should be maintained, that is all the areas should come under disscussion, IOK and Azad Kashmir, Northern Areas and Baltistan, Ladakh and Jammu

 

[IceCold]

Northern areas??

 

[roadrunner]

Northern Areas never were a part of historical Kashmir.

 

[blitz]

If this is the stand of Pakistan, i support BJPs stand that Kashmir must be discussed in its entirety, which does include the Northern Areas. By the way, BJPs stand is that even the northern areas belong to India.

 

[roadrunner]

If this is the stand of Pakistan, i support BJPs stand that Kashmir must be discussed in its entirety, which does include the Northern Areas. By the way, BJPs stand is that even the northern areas belong to India.

even Bharat ministers admit Northern Areas isnt part of Kashmir

 

[blitz]

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/archives/archives2004/kashmir20040330a.html

"We have always believed that Jammu and Kashmir, including the Azad Kashmir (Pakistan- occupied Kashmir), is an integral part of India,'"

BJP has my vote

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Gilgit and Baltistan, were ruled by small Chieftains until the beginning of the 19th century. They were in constant conflict amongst one another. Taking advantage of their weaknesses and mutual rivalries, the dogra regime of Kashmir annexed these territories around the middle of the 19th century even though they found the control of the area difficult. Baltistan was administered directly by the Kashmir Government as a part of Laddakh district with Headquarters at Leh. The British Indian Government got interested in the region following the political developments in Russian and Chinese Turkistan during The British Indian Government got interested in the region following the political developments in Russian and Chinese Turkistan during the late 19th centruy. The Political Agency of Gilgit was established during 1877 under the charge of a British agent. It was withdrawn a couples of years later only to be recreated in 1892. The princely states of Hunza, Nagar and the small principalities of Yasin, Punyal, Ishkoman and Gupis were made to pay allegiance to the British agent leaving them nominally independent. In 1935 the British acquired the Gilgit Wazarat on lease for a 60 year period from the Maharaja of Kashmir.

Diamir District, excepting Astore Sub-division, was administered like a tribal territory by the Assistant Political Agent at Chilas. His official residence known as “the Journey’s End”, was appropriately named because the British Officer posted there, had to traverse a long distance by sea, road, horse-back as well as on foot before reaching Chilas where the arduous journey ended after months of travel.

Just before Independence in 1947 the lease over Gilgit was terminated and it was handed back to the Maharaja of Kashmir terminated and it was handed back to the Maharaja of Kashmir who appointed Brigadier Gansara Singh as Governor of Gilgit. This position was not acceptable to the people who took up arms and fought against the Dogara army and liberated the land with the assistance of the Gilgit Scouts and forces sent from all parts of Northern Areas and also from Chitral. The names of Captain (later Colonel) Mirza Hassan Khan. Major (later Brigadier) Mohammad Aslam Khan, Major Ehsan Ali, sub Major (later captain) Babar subedar (later Group Capt.) Shah Khan, Subedar Sher Ali,Subedar Safiullah and Bakhtawar shah to mention a few would always serve as an inspiration to people here for their acts of supreme courage and valour. The Liberation Day is celebration every year on 1st November with great jubilations. After liberation of Northern Area on 1st November 1947, the local people through their Supreme Council, asked the Government of Pakistan to send their representative to take over the territory in its protection. The Government of Pakistan accepted and Sardar Mohammad Alam Khan, the first Political Agent arrived in Gilgit on 16-11-1947.

In Baltistan the Dogra forces were besieged by the freedom fighters at Kharfocho fort. Much of the force outside the fort was killed. When the siege prolonged and the Dogra army saw no chance of survival, it surrendered and was subsequently allowed to leave. This coincided with the Independence day of Pakistan of 14th August, 1948.

http://mail.comsats.net.pk/~sfpd/peona.htm

 

[joey]

http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/24/stories/2007052407020100.
Pakistan asserts new claims on Kashmir's Northern Areas

Praveen Swami
Its envoy to Brussels lays foundation for a diplomatic furore
Thursday, May 24, 2007

Claims mark a break with decades of established foreign policy
New claims fly in the face of Pakistan's own judicial position, say experts


NEW DELHI: Pakistan's Ambassador to Brussels has laid the foundations for a diplomatic furore by asserting new claims on the Northern Areas, a sprawling 72,495-square kilometre tract of Jammu and Kashmir occupied in 1947.

In a letter written to Baroness Emma Nicholson of Winterbourne, the author of a European Parliament report on Jammu and Kashmir, Ambassador M. Saeed Khalid has claimed that the "whole of [the] Northern Areas was not a part of Jammu and Kashmir state in 1947."

Ambassador Khalid insists that the United Nations resolutions on Jammu and Kashmir "do not, in any manner, apply to any part of the Northern Areas." As such, he argues, "integration of the Northern Areas with Pakistan is also not prohibited" — a suggestion likely to irk not just India, but many politicians in the sensitive frontier region.

Pakistan's claims mark a break with decades of established foreign policy. Although it ceded a small part of the region to China in 1963, Pakistan has historically been reluctant to formalise its de-facto direct rule of the Northern Areas. Pakistani diplomats believed that India would use such an act to strengthen its case for institutionalising the status-quo in Jammu and Kashmir.

Historical record


Baroness Winterbourne, whose report is to be presented before a European Parliament plenary on Thursday, has sent a 7-page reply to Ambassador Khalid, stating that she is "unable to commend your Government's new position to the European Parliament." The Baroness' reply appends colonial era maps and treaty documents which make clear that the Northern Areas were part of undivided Jammu and Kashmir.

Experts contacted by The Hindu also expressed surprise at Pakistan's position. Navnita Chadha-Behera, a professor at New Delhi's Jamia Milia Islamia university and author of two books on the conflict, said she was "astounded by the new claims." "Both the United Nations resolutions and the 1949 Karachi Agreement make clear Pakistan considered the Northern Areas to be a part of Jammu and Kashmir," she said.

Intriguingly, Ambassador Khalid's claims fly in the face of the Pakistan's own judicial position on the Northern Areas. In a judgment delivered in September, 1994, Pakistan's Supreme Court held that while the Northern Areas are "not part of Azad Kashmir as defined in the Azad Kashmir Interim Constitution Act," the region was indeed "part of Jammu and Kashmir state" as it existed before 1947.

As a result of Pakistan's ambiguous position on the Northern Areas, the region had no elected assembly nor representation in the National Assembly until 1994. Only in 2000 did a Pakistan Supreme Court judgment lead to the establishment of a body with powers to legislate even on local matters. However, Pakistan's Federal Minister for Kashmir Affairs continued to be the chief executive of the Northern Areas Legislative Council.

Successive Pakistani regimes, activists in the Northern Areas have long complained, have also been engaged in engineering large-scale demographic changes in the region. In violation of both United Nations resolutions and Jammu and Kashmir's pre-independence state-subject laws, the large-scale settlement of ethnic Punjabis and Pashtoons has changed the pre-independence non-local to local population ratio from 1:4 to worse than 3:4

Violence has often broken out as a consequence of the large-scale settlement of Sunnis, often supported by Islamist neoconservative groups, and the region's Shia natives. In 1988, Pakistan's President, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, then a Brigadier, helped put down a violent insurrection that claimed hundreds of lives. Again, in 2003, violence erupted after Shia groups complained about school textbooks propagating neoconservative Sunni Islam

Kashmir: Letter from Pakistan's Ambassador to Belgium to Baroness Nicholson, Member, European Parliament.
http://www.hindu.com/nic/ambassadorletter.pdf

Map of Kashmir in 1909 ; Reply from Baroness Nicholson, MEP, to Pakistan's Ambassador ; Accession of Jammu and Kashmir - Maharaja Hari Singh's letter to Lord Mountbatten, 1947.

http://www.hindu.com/nic/baronessresponse.pdf

 

[blitz]

All these technicalities don't really matter. In the real world, no one follows these vague rules and histories of territorial disputes. If Pakistan could do it safely, it would wrest Kashmir from India tomorrow. And as long as India maintains its claim over Azad Kashmir, when the time is right and oppertunity available, India will wrest Azad Kashmir from Pakistan. Might is still right in todays world.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

One has to understand the terrain of Azad Kashmir in so far as wresting it and likewise is the case for Pakistan.

 

[IceCold]

All these technicalities don't really matter. In the real world, no one follows these vague rules and histories of territorial disputes. If Pakistan could do it safely, it would wrest Kashmir from India tomorrow. And as long as India maintains its claim over Azad Kashmir, when the time is right and oppertunity available, India will wrest Azad Kashmir from Pakistan. Might is still right in todays world.

Really lol. Well u can still keep on dreaming of akhand bharat as long as u want but in real world this isnt going to happen. And bharat isnt might. U can vote for bjp all u want, bjp was in government what happened did they took Azad Kashmir? As for ur information its not the Azad Kashmir tht is disputed terrority but iok which by the way was india tht took it to unitednations.