Opinion: Providing Firepower to Palestinian Resistance

[Numerous]

Reminder that the Palestimne is not just a Muslim thing. There are Christian Palestininans as well.

It doesn't really matter because about 95% of Palestinians are Muslim and most Muslims support them due to Muslim brotherhood and due to the first qiblah being there. Similar to how Pakistan is a Muslim cause even though there are non-Muslim minorities living there.

May I ask why you're choosing to share these reminders with us? You don't seem very pro-palestine on other threads and you have stated an openness to accepting Israel for financial gains. Are you perhaps hoping that we would support Palestinians less just because 5% of them are christian?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You don't seem very pro-palestine

I am not. I am more pro Kashmir. The reason is you lot turn this into Muslim/Jew tussle. When it is not. Had the European invaders been Muslim the same would have happened. If Afghans pushed into Pakistan by breaking the Duran Line Pakistan would hardly excuse them because they are Muslim.

Muslims support them due to Muslim brotherhood and due to the first qiblah being there.

You mean feign support. It's not like they practially do more than I. Pray perhaps, indulge in keyboard bravado perhaps, stick a Free Palestine sticker up the arse or maybe even stand outside and protest with flags. All that does nothing more then in cause of Palestine then what I do.

 

[313ghazi]

Very true. If you watch Lawrence of Arabia the whole "sale" is evident between the scenes. The Arabs that we now in Pakistan worship, including the custodian of holy cities were the traitors. Those poor Turkish soldier who you see being killed in the movie were actually the defenders. Of all the Muslims in the world today only Turks can say "we spilled blood to defend Palestine".
I also believe that if I trained hard enough I got defeat Amir Khan in a boxing bout. I also believe if I worked hard enough I could make more billions the Gates.

The rub and slip is with that tiny word of catastrophic consequences -

"If".

You're probably a bit old to go a full round with Amir but if you get that chin... You're in luck.

No way you're getting richer than Bill Gates, not even a divorced bill Gates.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You're probably a bit old to go a full round with Amir but if you get that chin... You're in luck.

No way you're getting richer than Bill Gates, not even a divorced bill Gates.

Hahahaha nice one!

 

[Numerous]

I am not. I am more pro Kashmir. The reason is you lot turn this into Muslim/Jew tussle. When it is not. Had the European invaders been Muslim the same would have happened. If Afghans pushed into Pakistan by breaking the Duran Line Pakistan would hardly excuse them because they are Muslim.

Well since most Israelis are jews and most palestinians are Muslims, it's not too wrong to think of it as a Muslim/jew tussle. Sure it doesn't include all parties (such as american evangelists) but in reality this is what it comes down to. Just like how Pakistan and India is just a Muslim/Hindu tussle even though you will find hindus and muslims in both armies and countries.

Well of course, not all Muslims are good and it's perfectly fine to defend yourself against enemies who may be Muslim. This isn't really a hard concept to understand. If Afghans pursued silly nationalistic goals and tried to attack Pakistan, it's perfectly fine to fight them.

You should remember that the reason most kashmir supporters support them is because of Muslim brotherhood. The same reason for supporting Palestine.

 

[Numerous]

You mean feign support. It's not like they practially do more than I. Pray perhaps, indulge in keyboard bravado perhaps, stick a Free Palestine sticker up the arse or maybe even stand outside and protest with flags. All that does nothing more then in cause of Palestine then what I do.

So what? They do what they can within their limits. Much of your posts in this thread is complaints about Muslim's unrealistic expectations. If you already know that they can't do much more than donate or protest or post online, then really what are you having a go at them for? If they put forward unrealistic plans, you complain and mock, if they do what is within their means, again you complain and mock. You can't have it both ways.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

View attachment 742811
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This kind of system should be provided to the resistance

Pakistan is Islamic Republic of Pakistan. How about you read Pakistan full name over and over again.

Are you serious. BTW we were called Pakistan before we were called Islamic Republic, thanks to Maulvis and their attempt to wrest the national narrative. Nevertheless, I'll give you the vote - once you get 2 of Palestine's neighbors to accede to Pakistani control and taxation regime. Lets take Saudi and Jordan. If they accept Pakistani control and taxation, then we'll become the Thekedars of the Islamic world, because before you even make it to Israel your own brothers will have dealt with you, let alone the Israelis having to deal with you.

Till then lets just grow out of our britches and build a nation that can be in a place to be bold. Mindless bravery is littered with the bodies of young men in the valleys of Afghanistan send by mullahs in Pakistan. They all went to fight the cause and then met an AC130 Spectre. Now they are but fading memories, while the mullahs are eating lavish iftaris.

I'll give you an easier one: as a Pakistani just pay your fair share of taxes. If as a society we can do that then perhaps. So lets start there. Pay your taxes and then Pakistan can become a Thekedar of the muslim world. Till then, get out of this make belief world, build your house, your education, your health systems, your infrastructure. Get rid of the snakes within your midst and then perhaps. Till that happens - all of this is fantasy.

The best way to help the Palestinians is to work towards efforts to censor Israel, and boycott and divest movements. That will be the best way forward. Not shoot ineffective rockets like Hamas does. I would say get new leadership in Palestine (PLO is useless), talk to Israelis to get humanitarian aid, and finally work the Boycott and divest movements. That will yield better results than this other angle.

 

[truthfollower]

through dialogue

why not solve issues with Israel through dialogue

 

[airmarshal]

Muslim Arab countries fund terrorists who fight American wars in Middle East. Why cant there be such a force like Al Qaeda or ISIS to fight Israel? I dont understand why Muslims are so willing to slit their brother's throat which strengthens our enemy.

Palestine needs all help. Diplomatic and military. Israel needs its face punched. It will understand only language of force. For too long, Israel has been winning one sided confrontations against Palestinians.

For this to materialize, Palestinians must first unite. The West Bank and Gaza are under two political factions which dont even talk to each other. While the need of time is unity, this wedge gives Israel the opportunity to suppress Gaza and Palestinians even further.

 

[niao78]

Love the way Indians and Pakistani Think, Khud ki dho nahi pate aur dusaro ki dhone chalte he..

 

[Genghis khan1]

I forgot to mention how Pakistan helped Jordan put down the PLO in the 1960s. This has not been forgotten by many Palestinians. It's also why so many continue to support India, which supported the Palestinian cause until it recognized Israel.

Most probably.

Reminder that the Palestimne is not just a Muslim thing. There are Christian Palestininans as well.

Same Christian Arabs make U-turns in their statement while in US.

 

[Abid123]

Are you saying that Pakistan is incapable of taking care of religious extremists on her own and a foreign country should come to do your job for you? And kill your civilians indiscriminately in the process? How is that anything but incompetency if true?

Soleimani was in Iraq to ensure that the consequences of the regional war spreading after the Syrian civil war, like the establishment of the ISIS, will not affect our national security. He died for that, for our national security. The ISIS was a threat to Iran as much as it was to Syria and Iraq and they had not shied away from publicizing it a thousand times.

Our GDP growth has already turned positive again and forecasts predict a 3% growth for us even without the revival of the JCPOA. We are the only country in the Muslim world that has already started the vaccination of its population with its own vaccine, and the only country in history, after the establishment of the UNSC, that successfully annulled 4 rounds of UN Security Council resolutions on her by negotiating with the world powers. And in August, Iranians will choose a new president that will end 8 years of disastrous decisions by the reformists.

The Shah of Iran was a puppet of the United States. It is well-documented that the Shah's father was brought to power with the help of the British. After the 1973 oil crisis, the Shah realized that Israel and the West were not as invincible and formidable as he thought, and he realized that Arabs and Iranians could use oil as a weapon, and that's when the United States stopped supporting him and he was toppled.

As a matter of fact, Iran and Turkey are the only countries in the world that their leaders (Khamenei and Erdogan) voiced support for the Kashmiris. If you want Iran to help you in Kashmir, side with Iran in the region and allow Iran to form a proxy group in Kashmir and arm them. Just because you can't do that it doesn't mean that it cannot be done. lol

If Saudi Arabia and Iran can become allies that would be the best thing for the middle east as well as thr Muslim Ummah. Bin Salman was talking about wanting «good relations» with Iran. Hopefully they go from enemy to allies InshAllah.

 

[PakPrinciples]

Are you serious. BTW we were called Pakistan before we were called Islamic Republic, thanks to Maulvis and their attempt to wrest the national narrative.

Why are you trying to "educate" @Zarvan with an utterly uneducated response?

We were always intended to be the "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" we didn't take on our official title until 1956 because we didn't have a constitution until then. Upon our independence in 1947 our official title was "Dominion of Pakistan" because until 1956 we remained a part of the British Empire.

Jinnah wasn't Pakistan's first PM he was the country's Governor General aka the representative of the Pakistani "monarch" this is why Queen Elizabeth II's coronation saw her swearing an oath "to govern the people of... Pakistan...":

Why?

Because the dirt bag Hindu trash that made up the Pakistani National Congress, the same garbage that pushed the 1970 language debate in Bangladesh that lead to the 1971 war, and the liberal sh*t that ran to Islamic Pakistan (ex. Abdul Ghaffar Khan) when their secular hell h*le India fell apart objected to Jinnah and the Muslim Leagues goal of creating an "Islamic State" (Jinnah's own words) and fought tooth/nail to prevent it but their evil plans failed so they've been attempting to sabotage the country since our independence.

I'll give you an easier one: as a Pakistani just pay your fair share of taxes. If as a society we can do that then perhaps.

Pakistani's pay as much tax if not more than China, India and Bangladeshi's do as a percentage of their overall economies particularly if you remove social security contributions.

So why is our economy doing so much worse?

This issue is a lot more complicated than you think and reason guys like me have been calling for increased tax revenue generation is because of the disasterous neo-liberal economic policies the PML-N, PPP, Musharraf and now the PTI have pursued. Taxes just happen to be the best and fastest way to overcome the utterly stupid mistakes made by previous governments.

You have the audacity to blame our failings on the Maulana's many of whom are good, righteous men who strove to create an independent Pakistan? Don't confuse those men with the Indian trash that refer to themselves as "Maulana's" let alone "Muslims" content on being ruled over forever by Hindus as a part of a secular/liberal sh*t hole like India.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Your comment was utterly uneducated and you should be ashamed.

We were always intended to be the "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" we didn't take on our official title until 1956 because we didn't have a constitution until then. Upon our independence in 1947 our official title was "Dominion of Pakistan" because until 1956 we remained a part of the British Empire.

Jinnah wasn't Pakistan's first PM he was the country's Governor General aka the representative of the Pakistani monarch this is why Queen Elizabeth II's coronation saw her swearing an oath "to govern the people of... Pakistan...":

Why?

Because the dirt bag Hindu trash that made up the Pakistani National Congress, the same garbage that pushed the 1970 language debate in Bangladesh that lead to the 1971 war, and the liberal sh*t that ran to Islamic Pakistan (ex. Abdul Ghaffar Khan) when their secular hell h*le India fell apart objected to Jinnah and the Muslim Leagues goal of creating an "Islamic State" (Jinnah's own words) and fought tooth/nail to prevent it but their evil plans failed so they've been attempting to sabotage the country since our independence.



Pakistani's pay as much tax if not more than China, India and Bangladeshi's do as a percentage of their overall economies particularly if you remove social security contributions.

So why is our economy doing so much worse?

This issue is a lot more complicated than you think and reason guys like me have been calling for increased tax revenue generation is because of the disasterous neo-liberal economic policies the PML-N, PPP, Musharraf and now the PTI have pursued. Taxes just happen to be the best and fastest way to overcome the utterly stupid mistakes made by previous governments.

You have the audacity to blame our failings on the Maulana's many of whom are good, righteous men who strove to create an independent Pakistan?

You can write a thesis - but when the Resolution of Pakistan in 1940 was passed - it did not say Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Nor when we gained independence it was IR of Pakistan. It was always Pakistan.

Now this does not mean Pakistan should not be an IR of Pakistan in spirit. I think Islamic Identity is a central part of Pakistan. What I am trying to say is that build a balance in the national narrative, so it is not hijacked by any particular group. With Islamic identity our national heritage should also be important and our local roots are equally important. We are the people of this land. Quite often it seems our history begins with Mohammed Bin Qasim, and hence we become mentally subservient to some notion of our Arabic heritage which is minimal. Pakistan is more a Persian and Central Asian influenced than Arabic. The Saudi funded Maulvis, alonwith Zia's years, combined with JI and Mahdudi have built a completely warped sense of ourselves. So instead of us embracing our Steppes of Asia / Persian roots that inspired the Mughals and brought ghalib and sufis in our land, and gave us the glory of Indian subcontinent, we allow the Indian's to usurp that narrative as their own, while we chase some austere beduin culture that is completely alien to us. Unless you have your own identity you'll be no-one on a borrowed identity.

Also I will leave to the forum member to decide whether my views are uneducated as you put. As far as me being ashamed I am not. An educated discourse should never shame us. Perhaps I am wrong. Convince me, but shaming me is a classic example of the clergy/mullah mindset where when arguments fail, shame and hellfire mindlessness comes into play. Be very careful. It is this mind that has brought the lot of muslims to where we are, and West is perfectly happy to see us stepped in this sort of thinking. Critical thinking is essential to growth and our Prophet was himself a revolutionary with critical thinking. Infact while the Europeans were festering in the dark ages the Muslim world grew richer in large measure due to their ability to seperate Religion from Science. When European were burning scientists as heretics we were pursuing conflicting notions in science, and philosophy, without hurting anyone's sense of being a muslim. It is this mindset that ended that I believe began the muslims' downfall. And it is this mindset the continues to hurt us today both on the basis of its organic weight but also funded and supported by external parties who will never want to see us progress. Do you ever wonder why so much indirect money comes to our religious class from outside Pakistan. And do you think all of that money is benign.

Be strong muslims with strong imaan, but dont loose your rational thought and critical thinking on the alter of some false idolatory of sacrosant notions.Besides we are talking about a national structure and narrative not some core tenant of Islam. Which makes it harder to understand why in a forum meant to foster discussion you feel so strong to "shame" it.

Finally I am not saying there are not good people happen to be religious. All I am saying there are good people of all stripes, and religiosity does not give one precedence over another. And religiosity that is compulsive, forced, will eventually always become a tool for the corrupt. History is replete with this example and I think in large measure Pakistan's religious class is a perfect example of this hypocrisy and fitna.

BTW I will not give a pass to the other end of the spectrum either. The parties like PPP, MQM, PML all have enough to be accounted for. All I am saying is find the middle road. Unless I was taught wrong which could be the case, but our religion was always about the middle road. Find the moderation in your thinking, have a strong moral compass, dont pass judgement for you can be judged, focus on you own submission to the will of One, not submit others to His will. Teach a muslim to read and you can go free, give women their rights, give orphans and widows their rights, dont uproot even a single tree in war, never fight a war of aggression and I can go on and on. Islam was sent as a blessing to all. The professional clergy of Islam has made it the opposite.

 

[PakPrinciples]

You can write a thesis - but when the Resolution of Pakistan in 1940 was passed - it did not say Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Nor when we gained independence it was IR of Pakistan. It was always Pakistan.

You don't have an understanding of why our country is officially the "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" because you don't understand the history behind the origin of our nations name.

For starters it was Chaudhary Rehmat Ali's "Now or Never" written in 1933 that introduced the name "Pakistan" but have you actually read his pamphlet and what he advocated for?

The term "Islamic Republic" is to denote that Pakistan was to be a constitutional democracy ruled in accordance with the Quran and Islamic principles.

For example Jinnah made it clear during his 1946 Address to the Students in Deccan:

“In Islam, the ultimate obedience belongs to God alone. The only way to follow His Guidance is through the Holy Qur'an. Islam does not preach obedience to a king, parliament, person or any institution. The Islamic government means Rule of the Qur'an. And how can you establish the Rule of the Qur'an without an independent state? In this state, legislation will take place within the boundaries drawn by the Qur'an.”​

Jinnah further stated at the Darbar in Sibi, Balochistan on February 14, 1948:

“ . . . I have one underlying principle in mind, the principle of Muslim democracy. It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great law giver, the Prophet of Islam. Let us lay the foundation of our democracy on the basis of truly Islamic ideals and principles. Our Almighty has taught us that 'our decisions in the affairs of the State shall be guided by discussions and consultations'."​

Jinnah, even during his final public speech, on April 18, 1948 (4 months before he died) to the students of Edwards College in Peshawar stated:

“I am happy to see better things here. What more can one really expect than to see that this mighty land has now been brought under a rule, which is Islamic, Muslim rule, as a sovereign independent State.”​

This is why Pakistan is referred to as an "Islamic Republic".

What's difficult to understand about this?

Pakistan is more a Persian and Central Asian influenced than Arabic. The Saudi funded Maulvis, alonwith Zia's years, combined with JI and Mahdudi have built a completely warped sense of ourselves. So instead of us embracing our Steppes of Asia / Persian roots that inspired the Mughals and brought ghalib and sufis in our land, and gave us the glory of Indian subcontinent

Persian influences do exist due to its proximity to our peoples but our ancestry is not Persian nor does it originate from the Steepes of Asia.

Pakistan's civilization is A LOT older and grander than any of the regional empires that have developed over the course of history and our oldest connections aren't to Iran but Iraq formerly Mesopotamia which were our largest trading partners during the neolithic periods and many decades onward.

The Muslims of Pakistan and the wider Mughal Empire had much better relations with the Ottoman Empire than we ever did the Persians who were constantly attacking neighboring Muslim peoples both us and the Turks.