Opinion: Musharraf could've been a caliph but chose to be a jackal.

[doorstar]

This might surprise you but I have met people who share opinion of the member who started this thread.

When US-led forces invaded Iraq in 2003, Geo TV invited Mr. Hasan Askari Rizvi to discuss this theme. He was of the view that US-led forces will fail. When American troops penetrated Baghdad itself, he was shocked. When questioned about Pakistani options, his response was "hamara difaa bara mustahiqam hai."

Well.

I suppose these people know better than Pervez Musharraf.

This assumption that Western countries cannot fight, I am not sure from where it is derived from.

This assumption that Western countries cannot fight, I am not sure from where it is derived from.

if you contradict them they'll cite ghazwa e badr. if you insist on an explanation they'll claim soviet retreat was badr-like. now they are even more pumped up because they believe NATO has been defeated.

God-forbid if the Pakistani rulers start buying in to this delusion too especially that simpleton "the handsome one"

 

[MultaniGuy]

RAW is killing foreign nationals through proxies on our land. Little has changed. Some things have become worse than these ever were. Our economic circumstances and the economic/geopolitical ascent of India are the reasons. Now we do not take punitive actions against our archrival, fearing wider conflict. This has given liberty to India to bleed us. A one-sided story, more or less.

Obviously, we have to outcompete and outmaneuver Republic of India.

 

[MH.Yang]

2001 is different from 2021.
In 2001, you'd better not go against the USA.
There is a Chinese proverb: It's never too late for a gentleman to take revenge.

 

[Tamerlane]

It’s the easy way out to cry ‘Allah o Akbar,’ attack the enemy, get bombed, die and go to heaven.

It’s much harder to clean up the country, get rid of criminal politicians, impose rule of law, develop the economy, health and education, reorganize the political system, create provinces, liberate Karachi from Zardari etc.

Creating a successful and strong country that provides a decent quality of life for 220 million people is a lot harder than fighting wars.

 

[LeGenD]

if you contradict them they'll cite ghazwa e badr. if you insist on an explanation they'll claim soviet retreat was badr-like. now they are even more pumped up because they believe NATO has been defeated.

God-forbid if the Pakistani rulers start buying in to this delusion too especially that simpleton "the handsome one"

They are.

Many of the observers are correct to point out that Joe Biden is responsible for handing Afghanistan to Afghan Taliban on a silver plate with his call for 'unconditional withdrawal'.

Turkish opinion is same as well:

Biden’s blunder leaves the US increasingly isolated

Does the somnolent US president realise how European Union countries now regard him and his policies?

www.trtworld.com

Afghan Taliban had the opportunity to negotiate their way to victory. Allah Almighty granted them 2nd chance - all credit is to him. But you will see much HUBRIS in Pakistani talk shows. 20 years long rule over the country (of Mujahideen) by force does not invoke introspection in our circles.

I suppose Suicide bombing and IEDs are the 'winning strategy' now?

What if NATO decides to fight without rules? Just look at what became of the mighty Japan in World War 2.

One must be humble and introspective.

 

[doorstar]

They are.

Many of the observers are correct to point out that Joe Biden is responsible for handing Afghanistan to Afghan Taliban on a silver plate with his call for 'unconditional withdrawal'.

Turkish opinion is same as well:

https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/biden-s-blunder-leaves-the-us-increasingly-isolated-49398

Afghan Taliban had the opportunity to negotiate their way to victory. Allah Amighty granted them 2nd chance - all credit is to him.

But you will see much HUBRIS in Pakistani talk shows.

I suppose Suicide bombing and IEDs are the winning strategy?

What if NATO decides to fight without rules? Just look at what became of the mighty Japan in World War 2.

This is the point.

all good except the following

Afghan Taliban had the opportunity to negotiate their way to victory. Allah Amighty granted them 2nd chance - all credit is to him.

not true
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/will-vietnam-be-americas-next-strategic-partner.721605/post-13305260

 

[MH.Yang]

The Americans would have still invaded, it was never about Osama Bin Laden the idiot.

There is a book called <Thirty-Six Stratagems> in China, which was created in 502 ad.
the 34th stratagems: 公子献头(Give you my head).
The stratagems is that I confuse my enemies at the cost of giving up my own life and give my allies a chance to attack my enemies.
In Chinese history, this stratagems has occurred frequently.
For example, Fan YuQi committed suicide and asked Jing Ke to take his head to Qin Shihuang, which gave Jing Ke the opportunity to assassinate Qin Shihuang.
In the spring and Autumn period, YaoLi asked his lord HeLu to kill YaoLi's family, so that YaoLi won the trust of HeLu's enemy QingJi, and then YaoLi got the opportunity to kill HeLu's enemy QingJi.

If bin Laden had predicted before 9 / 11 that the USA would launch a war of retaliation in Afghanistan and that would be a long war. Then bin Laden is using the stratagems of "公子献头". He succeeded, bin Laden paid for his life, and he let Americans waste the most important 20 years and a lot of national strength.


If it is really "公子献头", bin Laden is not a fool, but a hero.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

And like others said above,you live in USA but you wish Pakistan to go to war and start WWIII for the sake of what?

Have you also noticed most of the religious nutjobs who frequent this forum live in western countries?

 

[Whitefalcon90]

Have you also noticed most of the religious nutjobs who frequent this forum live in western countries?

To the people saying I'm in the US and blah blah,, Maybe if Pakistan was on the cause of Allah I wouldn't be here in the west. I'll be fighting in Pakistan.

And the funny part is, there will be a war InshaAllah against India. I know you liberals hate this but war is in our blood. Pakistan will control all the coast of India plus majority of the northern side and put the Hindus in the middle surrounded by Pakistan. I give it 10-15 years.

 

[Trango Towers]

If only he had held on and pushed for victory against India in the kargil war and then denying support to America in 2001. He could've had millions if not billions of soldiers to defend Islam and Pakistan against the crusade.

All he had to do was say that America has threatened war against Pakistan if Pakistan doesn't cooperate with them on Afghanistan. He should've said I have held my ground and put my trust in Allah, armed forces, and Muslims to repel the crusade and gain victory which Allah has promised to its believers.

But he became a jackal and that is how history is going to show him as. A corrupt, death fearing jackal who laid down with his pants down in front of America.

Wa je wa..

1. Islam doesn't need defending....its security is promised...read
2. When you criticise those that stood in the line of fire ask....what have you done for Islam Pakistan or your people. Hell what have you done period.

What a rubbish thread

 

[Whitefalcon90]

Wa je wa..

1. Islam doesn't need defending....its security is promised...read
2. When you criticise those that stood in the line of fire ask....what have you done for Islam Pakistan or your people. Hell what have you done period.

What a rubbish thread

Once again the leadership has never provided that opportunity where I could participate in the cause of Allah. It is or should be a sacred right of every Muslim, a chance at martyrdom. I'm being robbed of my most precious moment of going all out in the name of Allah. My time is ticking as I'm getting older we need to liberate kashmir asap.

What I'm talking about Is not rubbish sir.

 

[313ghazi]

If only he had held on and pushed for victory against India in the kargil war and then denying support to America in 2001. He could've had millions if not billions of soldiers to defend Islam and Pakistan against the crusade.

All he had to do was say that America has threatened war against Pakistan if Pakistan doesn't cooperate with them on Afghanistan. He should've said I have held my ground and put my trust in Allah, armed forces, and Muslims to repel the crusade and gain victory which Allah has promised to its believers.

But he became a jackal and that is how history is going to show him as. A corrupt, death fearing jackal who laid down with his pants down in front of America.

LOL.

Sorry young brother, but this is far fetched.

Why?

1. Musharraf was a very secular man. Read his biography, he has no interest in religion and certainly not in anything like the Caliphate.

2. Musharraf was a selfish man. He undid all his hard work in domestic politics by signing the NRO which allowed Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto back into power.

3. You grossly over estimate the military capability of Pakistan 20 years ago. Our airforce was junk, our navy nearly non existing and our army was equipped with old outdated gear. We'd have likely lost a long war in Kashmir, simply because we don't have the resources to finish it.

4.Similarly we'd have faced a swift and categorical defeat at the hands of the US military. No doubt the Indians would have used the opportunity to steal Kashmir too.

5. Nobody came to rescue Iraq, nobody was coming for us. Pakistan and Iran supported the Taliban out of self interest.

6. As in Iraq traitors lined up to support the Americans, in Pakistan traitors would have lined up to serve them too. Pakistani politicians have previously lobbied the US to attack Pakistan.

7. You will no doubt be itching to tell me about the Taliban victory at this point. I'd ask you to measure the criteria for that victory. 20 years of decimation and death. We would have looked like Syria today. At least Syria kept its territory - we'd have likely lost that too.

Life is not a fairy tale. Instead of looking at fantasies we should would to build our nation. The Pakistan of today might have refused. We'd likely have been ignored.

Let's work so that the Pakistan of 20 years time InshaAllah could have definitely refused and had the strength to enforce its opinion.

That won't happen with words. That happens with money, innovation and social reform. We need God fearing men and women in power - not dollar loving.

 

[313ghazi]

Once again the leadership has never provided that opportunity where I could participate in the cause of Allah. It is or should be a sacred right of every Muslim, a chance at martyrdom. I'm being robbed of my most precious moment of going all out in the name of Allah. My time is ticking as I'm getting older we need to liberate kashmir asap.

What I'm talking about Is not rubbish sir.

Bhai Ji - Allah swt has given you that opportunity every day. You can earn money and pay tax. You can use that money to help others out of poverty. You can use that money to spread knowledge about what our state ought to be doing which it isn't. You can use that money to fill the hole.

I don't mean create a militia. But if the state is failing to train our youth to be physically and mentally prepared to defend the state - can you create a private company that trains people in the role of "security". Can you create gun ranges up and down the country where private citizens can learn how to correctly operate firearms? Can you create survival courses and first aid courses privately?

With the right knowledge, money and business know-how - of course you can.

Our nation cannot produce its own engines. Can you learn how to make one? Can it be better and cheaper than what's on the market? Maybe if you had enough money you could fund scientists and engineers to create one?

There is opportunity for you every day. We have plenty dying for this nation every day. We don't have many living for it. Most of us live for ourselves.

 

[Trango Towers]

Once again the leadership has never provided that opportunity where I could participate in the cause of Allah. It is or should be a sacred right of every Muslim, a chance at martyrdom. I'm being robbed of my most precious moment of going all out in the name of Allah. My time is ticking as I'm getting older we need to liberate kashmir asap.

What I'm talking about Is not rubbish sir.

No don't blame the leadership.
Doers do and talkers talk.

You are a talker.

First educate yourself then talk

 

[SD 10]

does we had a capability to fight whole US military, that's the only thing i wanna say to you???

so what are we doing than? spending shit loads of money from this weak *** economy... whats its worth, if wee are not going to fight?