Opinion: Imran Khan overthrown because of collision with doctrine of Military Establishment?

[ghazi52]

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[The Terminator]

It was bound to happen!

There were multiple shut-up calls sent to IK for not praising India's foreign policy publicly, but he wasn't listening and deliberately avoiding it. You can not do this. He directly collided with the pivot of Pakistan's strategic policies. IK stepped outside the boundary, which was disastrous at all levels. He was capturing the attention of the Indian establishment and govt corridors.

Indian mainstream media was covering IK since day one but once he starts praising India's foreign policy, there was a sudden change in the entire Indian media coverage, their narrative and tone. Certainly, it was an expected. As of now, the Indian fascist regime has already built favorable grounds with respect to Kashmir FP (by utilizing Khan's recent remarks) and you will see this in the upcoming general elections.

Rationally, we are aligned with the western establishment and their policies since the partition, however, Pakistan's military always stands like a fireball when it comes to their defined doctrine. They won't tolerate, and won’t compromise if you directly interfere in their policies regarding India. For the west, that's completely acceptable if they really need Pakistan’s irrational support. No one can force Pakistan's military to accept Indian hegemony in the region.

Khan’s anonymous intervention into the domain that was pre-established by Pakistan’s powerful military establishment was completely unacceptable to them. That was an unintelligent, and brainless approach on IK's part. Consequently, that was enough reason to thrash IK from the power without wasting any time. NS tried that twice, and both times he was thrashed by the powers'.

Everyone should understand that there is a reason behind the existence of Pakistan, there is a reason for having armed forces and there are enough reasons for having anti-Indian doctrine -- vice-versa.

What Quaid said, all good captions and quotes, who should run the foreign policy, Army should be under the command of PM and all that, in reality, Pak military owns the country and they are the ones who drive the state policy whether you like it or not. Once you deviate from it, you will face the consequences. IK absolutely did the right thing. Praising someone's independent policy won't make you a traitor however, in reality, our govt(s) are working under extreme pressure and hostility.

Lol that's bull$hit article IK's remarks on India's balanced, good and non aligned foreign policy could be least of anyone's concern. Except If someone's little fake ego hurts, then that's entirely another topic. IK 's campaign to globally declare this Modi regime as fascist, Neo Nazis and the impact he created against India's hegemonic tendencies is wasn't heard From any previous Pakistani Govts in at least last 3 decades including the military dictatorship too. No one has been against Indian aggression more than the IK. Zardari, Nawaz Sharif, Musharraf! none.

You have completely ignored the ground realities, facts and just picked up a small bit of IK's 3.5 years regime, only a couple of statements and trying to declare him as pro indian. Pathetic!

He just compared Pakistan's difficulties and India's better balanced foreign policy with ours. We absorb and compare a lot with our eastern neighbors. Cricket teams, IPL vs PSL, songs/movies/dramas, court proceedings, law and justice system, we envy their democracy, compare each and every military equipment and every nitty gritty details. Like Kon zada oonchi taang uthata hai Rangers Wala ya BSF Wala wahga border pe. Wajpai/manmohan vs Musharraf/Zardari. Modi vs Nawaz and Imran Khan etc etc.

And no one from Pakistan can influence indian elections anyhow, not even lumber 1 can do anything there to manipulate election results. Lumber 1 intelligence has the capacity to only topple the Pakistani regimes can't do outside of its borders. Bs ghr me hi Sher Hain. So you can't play India card against Imran Khan. Yes you can play Modi card against Nawaz Sharif, at least that makes some sense. Come up with better excuses next time!

Thanks

Praising your enemy's strengths doesn't make you a traitor. Actually we should all learn good things from our enemies.

India's foreign policy is really independent. It's one of their top three strengths (others being population and buying power).

Another strength of India is its election commission, that doesn't listen to anyone.. Another one is its policy that says one can't have dual nationality.. either you are an Indian or a Non Indian.. a reason why you don't see many judges/ bureaucrats/ politicians/ generals settling abroad.

Imran was critical of India's human rights abuses.. that's its biggest weakness.. and he made sure to highlight that at every forum..

So if he has been sidelined just because of his praise for India's independent foreign policy, it's very unfortunate.

An example I can give here.. Imagine Pakistan cricket team's captain says that Indian board is preparing fast pitches for the team to give tough time to Australia in Australia, while we are not being provided with such pitches for practice. That's halaal praise... halaal criticism is that when Pakistan team's captain highlights that India has a huge bookie network and that network is targeting cricketers all over the world and maligning the game's reputation.. that's again halaal criticism..

Exactly!

 

[The Terminator]

Captions and quotes looks good in books, in jalsaas and in debates but the reality is different and this is what it is...

So quotations captions look good in books. So defy the words of the creator of Pakistan Quaid e Azam/ Illama Iqbal. You can similarly defy the verses of Quran and Ahadees/orders of the Prophet too. That "they look good in books, in meetings and recitations but reality is different and I don't believe in them. I am a practical realistic person of 21st century."

So by that standard you must have to be a Zionist christian, white supremacist because they own this world in present times

 

[The Terminator]

@Farah Sohail yes his software has been definitely updated if he was against IK removal or establishment's role in it prior to these posts

Again I didn't say India's FP is good or bad, I am just telling one of the core reasons for removing him from powrrrr.

Another big Fu©kin lie. He wasn't or could never be removed for any reason related to India. There were many other "reasons" for the military establishment to again do its dirty work on the politics. I would explain those reasons in detail later on. As a hint It had to do with the foreign policy, economic policies, west especially US, Russia, China and the matters of the military. None of the reasons could be related to india. It could be a new fake propaganda from the depressed ones right now but there can't be any reality in it.

YES I AM AGAINST any kind of praise that directly help MODI TERRORIST.

If you are honest with your own statement then you must have bashed Bajwa to the deep darkness of this universe by now . It's Bajwa who not so long ago said "let's burry the past (Kashmir issue) and move forward (trade, friendship with India).

It was IK and his NSA who dozens of times said that we can't and wouldn't normalize relations with India until they reverse the August 5 changes to the Kashmir status, and Kashmir issue would be the center of our dialogues with other issues included as well. And they were resilient on it and proved that they meant what they actually said.

That's why backdoor diplomacy with India failed because India wasn't serious about Pakistan's concerns but they echoed Bajwa's thoughts of just move ahead and befriends.

Lol epic contradictory tactics at play here.

Now I have proven you that who is actual friend of Modi and wants to cooperate with him with screenshots of his reported policy statements. It was just IK blocking it from happening. Ab btao Kaun hai Modi ka yaar?

 

[The Terminator]

You're absolutely RIGHT but again, its all in the books, in reality, Pakistan's military establishment owns the country and drives its foreign policy thats what it is whether you like it or not.

Ok just imagine a hypothetical situation for a moment. A group of thugs armed with AKs, G3s, grenades, RPGs bang your front door and occupy it. Then they would say to you: "You're absolutely RIGHT but again, its all in the books, in reality, we (thugs) own this house(including you and your family) and drive your home's day2day tasks thats what it is whether you like it or not. What would be your reaction? A thumbs up or salute!

Then the handsome white colored master of those thugs arrives to check. The thugs are delighted to see their master they offer a guest that's in the house from neighborhood (Afghan Taliban ambassador). Who as you guest has to be protected and respect as global law dictates (diplomatic immunity). But those thugs hand that guest over to their master. And they also sell out one of your daughters named "Afia Siddiqui" at dirt cheap rate against a few bucks $ just to please their master. Then master goes away saying that beat them badly and bleed them till I return again. Then torture begins and your family suffers casualties as a result (80,000 casualties)
But the real dillema is that the thugs were actually your appointed security guards for which you paid them for their salaries, uniform, weapons and training.

One of your son retaliates in despair, frustration and anger that his brother is dead due to master's robo attack (drone strike). But he becomes a threat to the thugs and you as a result. So you node to the thugs to eliminate your son in his room as a room clearing Op.

After sometime, you pass away meanwhile and your elder self respecting son(IK) becomes the head of the family. He resists the thug's illegitimate supremacy, he defies master's illegal unbearable orders and tries to break those shackles of slavery but then the Master's letter arrives ordering thugs to remove that head of the family because he is bad and master doesn't like him. Then those thugs just toss your self esteemed, struggling for freedom son out of the window and a few prominent members of your family starts clapping and rejoicing this act.

That's the past 2 decades of fictional fairytale story of some random home. Any similarities with any person, or region is purely coincidental.

 

[The Terminator]

Salaam




Yeah that's why he is coming back and his brother is pm.

Everyone knows beyond any doubt that Shahbaz and Nawaz are the 2 faces of the same coin. You can never split them

Based on your opinion, heres what i got to say. If thats the case ask Bajwa to grow some balls and do the same with Maryam and his dakoo father, where is bajwas gairat when they are roaming freely and openly spewing venom against army and establishment, where is the line for them.
Everyone here respects the army but whats wrong is wrong, its our right to raise questions its our constitutional right.
Any countries army has no right to make state policies, the people do. Take away that right and we are living under a silent dictatorship.

Over and out!

Oh no. Maryam Bibi and his Uncle Zardari own a whole host of archives of leaked documents, videos, audios, corruption scandals and what not about those gentlemen Generals . That's why Zardari used to threaten the mysterious hands, not to poke him excessively or cross the red lines or else!

 

[The Terminator]

Another thread backfired on their face. I bet this thread would be deleted soon, Or at least 85% of it's posts eliminated as a firefighting act.

 

[The Terminator]

Quaid didn't fought for our freedom for nothing and more then million Muslims didn't died for the Pakistan army and their sacrifices are for the freedom of Pakistan and Pakistan only.
We didn't got freedom to be enslaved by our own army. Army is not Pakistan and they are paid officials of our country like any other department. Pakistan army can't be high jacking our country folks freedom, if they think they are above the law then sooner or latter things are going to catch up with them.

Army in Iran thought of themselves too big for their boots at one time and Iran ended up with the people militia pasdaran. Looking down at your own people will never end well and is a dangerous recipe which have got severe long term consequences.
No one is blaming army for all this selling of their souls other then handful generals and those generals will be gone sooner or latter so lets leave it at that.

My advance condolences to you for the very soon prospective death (elimination) of your post even if this thread somehow survives the sight of the mods

Spot on.
I was too involved in the Russia-Ukraine forum here before April 1 to pay attention to the Pakistani politics. I had assumed that Imran Khan still had the full backing of the Establishment and I was happy over that. I was REALLY looking forward to Imran Khan beating especially the PPP govt in Sindh in 2023. But when I saw in late March that MQM too deserted Imran then I suspected something serious was happening. And I also knew that once an NCM is tabled, it becomes the property of the house upon which voting has to be done. Benazir had to face that in 1989. I think Shaukat Aziz in 2006. There was no way around for them nor for Imran. Period!
But the way Imran acted starting April 3 showed me that this was the same demagogue who stood on the shipping container for months in 2014 shouting obscenities. This was the same guy who was notoriously arrogant as a cricketer. This guy has never seen a real 'jail' or hardship in his life. This was a whoring-around guy all is life before turning a pious old man preaching even more religion into Pakistanis who already so much of that--a Zia hu Haq reincarnation but Zia had graces and was humble, as much I hate Zia.

My mistake to have put so much faith into him in recent years. But I started course correction after April 3. And I ask fellow Pakistanis to put loyalty to Pakistan above anything else. There is no harm in taking a U-Turn about Imran Khan! You know, he himself said, U Turns are okay in circumstances! So unshackle yourself and make informed decisions and don't worship personalities!

Hey people listen! Don't trust IK, he is unreliable! But trust this "Meengla" our new leader

 

[The Terminator]

You guys really need to take a chill pill. I am a fan of IK but also a realist. Lets face it and get our cards down on the table.
IK went because of an NCV. Politically he was weak as he had a minority government perched on the shoulder of some minority parties. These parties were cajoled (you know the means as well as I do) into withdrawing the support for IK. He had been told innumerable times to hold reelections but din not listen to the advisors
He tried a blatantly illegal way of turning down the NCV. This unfortunately was latched on to by the SC who after uncharacteristically rapid deliberation RIGHTLY turned the ruling of his DEP. Speaker illegal. I dare say not doing so would have left the parlianment open to being oppressed and the will of the majority suppressed. He was therefore forced to hold a vote which he lost.
The army is in a bad situation in all of this. It has RIGHTLY remained neutral as is its remit. Any interference would have further reinforced the selected label on IK by his accusers and harmed his long term prospects as a label of the "King's party" would have harmed him.
The current government is a hodge podge of goons from many parties who will not be able to run the state. With 135 seats vacant in the parlianment it will be a herculian task to organize re poling on these posts again. Street pressure will force mistakes and street pressure is IK forte.
So the likelihood is he will be reelected.
NOW WHERE ON THIS WHOLE FIASCO DO YOU SEE A ROLE OF THE ARMY?
The recent investigations recounted by FAWAD CHAUDHRY of PTI suggests 60% of the twitter/media posts maligning the army is coming from India. 20% from NOONIES disguised as Insafians. Do not fall victim to this baseless propaganda. If nothing else listen to the PTI leadership and hear what they are saying. They are desperately trying to tell everyone to not fall prey to this viscious maligning campaign against the army.
Rest I will leave you to decide.
A


All IK said was that India refused to criticize the Russians for the Ukrainian war. That is not a praise as such but in this maligning campaign everything is Halal. No one wants to even listen to the PTI high ups.
A

Ok as far as Parliamentary position is concerned we can understand that a bit. But still everyone knows that who steers the MNAs to a certain direction. Just leave it.

Only 2 questions!
IK said Bajwa brought 3 options from the opposition to resolve this issue.
1. IK resigns
2. Face NCV
3. Early elections.

First 2 were unacceptable so IK selected the 3rd option. But for this to materialize, NCV in Parliament from the opposition would have to be withdrawn so IK could dissolve the assembly and announce general elections. But Army said that no IK contacted us to communicate these options to the opposition. Then why would IK give 1st 2 options especially the 1st option to the opposition? And why wouldn't opposition accept IK's offer for his resignation! That's utterly illogical.

Q2. IK asked in a jalsa that he was the PM, the Chief Executive of the country. The letter/communication was clearly addressed to some entity in Pakistan. Who really was the addressee of that letter/communication? Then the closely attached ministers to IK further elaborated on social media that the letter was first hidden from the FM and PM. Then through some tip and institutional leak by some loyal person that letter came to the hands of the Govt. and was immediately shared to the military establishment as well. Military advised to just keep silent for now and don't respond. But when nothing was being done and IK frustrated to see NCV date coming soon. He made it public and put letter into official record of NSC and various other offices before loosing his seat of the PM.

The presence of the communique is well established by now. And some of it's content made public been never denied by any stakeholder. Demarche was also issued as a result.

Who did get the orders from Islamabad High court in just few hours to refrain IK from making the contents of this communique public? As it's clearly the prerogative of the PM and the cabinet to decide about it.

Q3. Why the ridiculous petition was filed at midnight again in IHC to stop PM from dismissing a Govt employee at the post of COAS?

It doesn't take a forensic investigator from FBI to reach to the conclusions!

So it's beyond any doubt that Bajwa played dirty games on both sides of the goal posts. And it's proven that muqadas gaiy jhoot bhi bolti hai r fraud bhi krti hai awam k Sath. R kch bhi kr guzarti hai APNA target achieve krny k liy.

 

[The Terminator]

Araz bhai screw the twitter, PPl common ppl are pissed, tehy what happened taht night, they are seeing whats happeing now, its being talked on Busses, van, universities, markets. Its everywhere, Now the audacity of these coming on tv calling rest of retards, taking us for simpletons and white washing is not going to fly. All of sudden posters coming up saying do not fall forghair mulki agencies, beware of them its treason. I mean Who the **** they think we are, gal of them. WE ARE COMMITING TREASON????? for asking questions ppl before SHOULDVE ASKED!!!!!!!

An uncle shouting from GHQ!
Hey you bloody civilians! Yes you are commiting treachery by asking such question for which we have no answers and no one in the history ever had the courage to ask these questions from us in the public you agent of foreign agencies m0r0n! You are the traitors of 1st degree and primary threat to the national security and must be suppressed or eliminate or whatever it takes to silence you I don't care!

Yes we the most loyal certified patriots of this country slept in the lap of the foreign agencies and Foreign powers. Yes we sold you and let you die in thousands so we could get hands on a couple of brand new white toys and a few bucks in our pockets. But hey don't dare to call us anything. We still are the most honest, most loyal and most patriot this country has ever produced. We own this country and it's mine you can get lost from my country if you don't like me. You all bloody civilians you mofukrs!

Have you listened carefully? now F off and I won't speak the blunt truth again!

my 2cents outside view. I think he was deliberately setup to fail.

If you look at Egypt; when Morsi came to power. It was my exact words to my fellow Egyptian friends, the Pharoahs have ruled Egypt for milleniums; the junta who is owning everything wont give up power - instead they will set him up to fail by ensuring he gets the 'right' people around him who facilitate that failure.

Morsi did not see the number of years IK did and the poor man died a horrible death on the hands of the brutal junta lead by sisi. At the time, those around will remember how even monies were not available for basic food; but then KSA/UAE etc instigated the coup and brought Sisi in and flushed his hand with monies.

It is regretful but reality is military juntas need to be focused on their role of defending the borders but i see Pak and Egypt mil in same light; they have built empires to enrich themselves. Then do you ask for any fairness from anyone.

Democracy is a two edge sword but give it time, it will get better.

Spot on

 

[El Sidd]

Lol that's bull$hit article IK's remarks on India's balanced, good and non aligned foreign policy could be least of anyone's concern. Except If someone's little fake ego hurts, then that's entirely another topic. IK 's campaign to globally declare this Modi regime as fascist, Neo Nazis and the impact he created against India's hegemonic tendencies is wasn't heard From any previous Pakistani Govts in at least last 3 decades including the military dictatorship too. No one has been against Indian aggression more than the IK. Zardari, Nawaz Sharif, Musharraf! none.

You have completely ignored the ground realities, facts and just picked up a small bit of IK's 3.5 years regime, only a couple of statements and trying to declare him as pro indian. Pathetic!

He just compared Pakistan's difficulties and India's better balanced foreign policy with ours. We absorb and compare a lot with our eastern neighbors. Cricket teams, IPL vs PSL, songs/movies/dramas, court proceedings, law and justice system, we envy their democracy, compare each and every military equipment and every nitty gritty details. Like Kon zada oonchi taang uthata hai Rangers Wala ya BSF Wala wahga border pe. Wajpai/manmohan vs Musharraf/Zardari. Modi vs Nawaz and Imran Khan etc etc.

And no one from Pakistan can influence indian elections anyhow, not even lumber 1 can do anything there to manipulate election results. Lumber 1 intelligence has the capacity to only topple the Pakistani regimes can't do outside of its borders. Bs ghr me hi Sher Hain. So you can't play India card against Imran Khan. Yes you can play Modi card against Nawaz Sharif, at least that makes some sense. Come up with better excuses next time!

Thanks


Exactly!

Impressive scrabble pedigree.

After August 05, 2019 India's unilateral action in Jammu and Kashmir, PM of Pakistan made 2 very popular statements.

1) On the floor of the parliament he said : What should I do, go to war with India?

2) Went to Azad Kashmir and said : Those who want to wage struggle for Kashmir are hurting Kashmir struggle and are counter productive and must wait for his signal.

Talk actions not words. The pressure of human rights on Indian administration is due US and EUs own undertaking as part of their HR conventions and in part economic leverage over India.

 

[The Terminator]

My Salute and respect to my soldiers !!

View attachment 834678
,.

Respect and love those true brave soldiers!

And scrutinize those Generals!

 

[mikkix]

Black Vigo or money talks.

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,
Is Pakistan is free for all????
Judges are also become king.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1520073034010406912

 

[TsAr]

It was bound to happen!

There were multiple shut-up calls sent to IK for not praising India's foreign policy publicly, but he wasn't listening and deliberately avoiding it. You can not do this. He directly collided with the pivot of Pakistan's strategic policies. IK stepped outside the boundary, which was disastrous at all levels. He was capturing the attention of the Indian establishment and govt corridors.

Indian mainstream media was covering IK since day one but once he starts praising India's foreign policy, there was a sudden change in the entire Indian media coverage, their narrative and tone. Certainly, it was an expected. As of now, the Indian fascist regime has already built favorable grounds with respect to Kashmir FP (by utilizing Khan's recent remarks) and you will see this in the upcoming general elections.

Rationally, we are aligned with the western establishment and their policies since the partition, however, Pakistan's military always stands like a fireball when it comes to their defined doctrine. They won't tolerate, and won’t compromise if you directly interfere in their policies regarding India. For the west, that's completely acceptable if they really need Pakistan’s irrational support. No one can force Pakistan's military to accept Indian hegemony in the region.

Khan’s anonymous intervention into the domain that was pre-established by Pakistan’s powerful military establishment was completely unacceptable to them. That was an unintelligent, and brainless approach on IK's part. Consequently, that was enough reason to thrash IK from the power without wasting any time. NS tried that twice, and both times he was thrashed by the powers'.

Everyone should understand that there is a reason behind the existence of Pakistan, there is a reason for having armed forces and there are enough reasons for having anti-Indian doctrine -- vice-versa.

What Quaid said, all good captions and quotes, who should run the foreign policy, Army should be under the command of PM and all that, in reality, Pak military owns the country and they are the ones who drive the state policy whether you like it or not. Once you deviate from it, you will face the consequences. IK absolutely did the right thing. Praising someone's independent policy won't make you a traitor however, in reality, our govt(s) are working under extreme pressure and hostility.

He started praising Indian foreign policy like 2 months back, his downfall started way before that. Infact him not agreeing to do business with India was one of the reasons of his downfall.