Opinion: Imran Khan overthrown because of collision with doctrine of Military Establishment?

[Rank]

Correct. You are consistent.

I don't think Imran is alienated from the Establishment by saying a few good words about India's foreign policy. And I actually admire Imran for being honest in his voicing his opinion. But IF I were to guess, then I think the roots of Imran vs the Establishment were planted around the appointment of the DG ISI sometime late last year but that was not the only factor.

Months before this NCM saga, Hamid Mir had remarkably predicted a really bad year for Imran Khan. His last few words in the article quoted below are carefully said and are full of meanings. You don't have to believe him but it is worth reading.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/11/why-2022-is-shaping-up-be-nightmare-year-imran-khan/

According to some reports, the new head of Pakistan’s powerful intelligence agency, ISI, Lt. Gen. Nadeem Ahmad Anjum, is trying to keep a low profile. If true, that’s bad news for Khan. If the ISI remains neutral it will be difficult for Khan to defeat a no-confidence move in Parliament, where his majority is very thin. (He stirred up a huge fuss last year when he used the ISI’s support to maintain his party’s control in parliament.)
Khan is also facing an investigation by the Election Commission over irregularities in funds received from outside Pakistan. This case is a ticking time bomb for Khan. Unfortunately for him, that’s not the only potential disaster he’s likely to face in the year ahead.

as far as my knowledge, IK had a little problem with ISI chief. He got to know from his close aide that ISI chief has good relations with PPP. That surprised IK. No idea about the background of this.

 

[Cheepek]

Power is intoxicating. IK tried to control the same people who made him the Prime Minister. They showed him his place. Simple. Everything else is noise.

Nothing to do with FP, it's just a stupid alibi which IK chose to use. The discontent had already been brewing before the Russia visit.
IK had seen the writing on the wall, infact many had. Last year's shenanigans sealed his fate. He needed an exit strategy and he chose anti-Americanism which sells like hot cakes in Pakistan.
Good strategy but I doubt establishment will let him come to power so easily, atleast not until he stops sounding anti-army.

 

[Meengla]

Power is intoxicating. IK tried to control the same people who made him the Prime Minister. They showed him his place. Simple. Everything else is noise.

Nothing to do with FP, it's just a stupid alibi which IK chose to use. The discontent had already been brewing before the Russia visit.
IK had seen the writing on the wall, infact many had. Last year's shenanigans sealed his fate. He needed an exit strategy and he chose anti-Americanism which sells like hot cakes in Pakistan.
Good strategy but I doubt establishment will let him come to power so easily, atleast not until he stops sounding anti-army.

Absolutely correct.
Before IK, some other popular leaders like ZAB, Benazir Bhutto, and Nawaz Sharif also paid the price. ZAB was even hanged after being deposed. Both Benazir and Nawaz were kicked out of power multiple times each and criminal cases made against them and had to flee the country! And Imran himself benefited from the Establishment's help in 2018.
And if he thinks he can challenge the Establishment without EVERY other major political party on his side then he is living in a Fool's Paradise! Things don't work like that in Pakistan! Go as far back as the 1960s where Ayub Khan was able to beat even Fatima Jinnah despite her enjoying lots of support in both wings of Pakistan.

BTW, the Hamid Mir article quoted above is very remarkable and should be analyzed in some other topic. IMHO.

 

[blain2]

To build that, you need to put corrupts behind the bars.. Our corrupt politicians enjoy life within and outside of Pakistan.

Well that to a lesser extent, but we don't pay our taxes either. There is plenty of blame to apportion here for why our anemic economy is the way it is.

 

[PakSword]

Well that to a lesser extent, but we don't pay our taxes either. There is plenty of blame to appropriate here for why our anemic economy is the way it is.

That's also corruption, isn't it? A common person, when sees that the leaders are thieves of the highest order, always tries to save his own money.

I have audited a few government projects when I was in Pakistan in later part of 2000s. The extent of corruption at the government level is unbelievable. I was indirectly part of the reko diq audit team.. How that project was initially awarded.. wow, just wow..

Why would a common man pay his taxes when he realizes that his money is going to end up in Europe?

People of Pakistan give more to charities than FBR.

 

[PakFactor]

That's also corruption, isn't it? A common person, when sees that the leaders are thieves of the highest order, always tries to save his own money.

I have audited a few government projects when I was in Pakistan in later part of 2000s. The extent of corruption at the government level is unbelievable. I was indirectly part of the reko diq audit team.. How that project was initially awarded.. wow, just wow..

Why would a common man pay his taxes when he realizes that his money is going to end up in Europe?

People of Pakistan give more to charities than FBR.

That is a fact. I have been involved in a few acquisitions as a consultant one recently in Karachi where a foreign group of Pakistanis purchased a local bank for $ 600 million, I will just say sorting through that was probably the worst part of auditing for Risk Management I've ever done.

 

[True-Green]

Wow Miltery doctorine what a bunch of BS, since when you have one.. Only doctorine was around to scamming the west and getting some dollars...

Small mind he try to tell you have some shame india as country always try to protect their independent foreign policy they are American partner but still trading with Russia...

Where you been always ready to hire by the highest bidder and will do dirty work in return of short time gain and never really care for your national interest. You never had even a security policy... IK try to give you one in after 73 years of sub independence..

Pakistan been ruled by some tiny minds who couldn't really think or plan more then few weeks ahead. short sighted cowards.

 

[Meengla]

Spot on.
I was too involved in the Russia-Ukraine forum here before April 1 to pay attention to the Pakistani politics. I had assumed that Imran Khan still had the full backing of the Establishment and I was happy over that. I was REALLY looking forward to Imran Khan beating especially the PPP govt in Sindh in 2023. But when I saw in late March that MQM too deserted Imran then I suspected something serious was happening. And I also knew that once an NCM is tabled, it becomes the property of the house upon which voting has to be done. Benazir had to face that in 1989. I think Shaukat Aziz in 2006. There was no way around for them nor for Imran. Period!
But the way Imran acted starting April 3 showed me that this was the same demagogue who stood on the shipping container for months in 2014 shouting obscenities. This was the same guy who was notoriously arrogant as a cricketer. This guy has never seen a real 'jail' or hardship in his life. This was a whoring-around guy all is life before turning a pious old man preaching even more religion into Pakistanis who already so much of that--a Zia hu Haq reincarnation but Zia had graces and was humble, as much I hate Zia.

My mistake to have put so much faith into him in recent years. But I started course correction after April 3. And I ask fellow Pakistanis to put loyalty to Pakistan above anything else. There is no harm in taking a U-Turn about Imran Khan! You know, he himself said, U Turns are okay in circumstances! So unshackle yourself and make informed decisions and don't worship personalities!

 

[PakFactor]

Spot on.
I was too involved in the Russia-Ukraine forum here before April 1 to pay attention to the Pakistani politics. I had assumed that Imran Khan still had the full backing of the Establishment and I was happy over that. I was REALLY looking forward to Imran Khan beating especially the PPP govt in Sindh in 2023. But when I saw in late March that MQM too deserted Imran then I suspected something serious was happening. And I also knew that once an NCM is tabled, it becomes the property of the house upon which voting has to be done. Benazir had to face that in 1989. I think Shaukat Aziz in 2006. There was no way around for them nor for Imran. Period!
But the way Imran acted starting April 3 showed me that this was the same demagogue who stood on the shipping container for months in 2014 shouting obscenities. This was the same guy who was notoriously arrogant as a cricketer. This guy has never seen a real 'jail' or hardship in his life. This was a whoring-around guy all is life before turning a pious old man preaching even more religion into Pakistanis who already so much of that--a Zia hu Haq reincarnation but Zia had graces and was humble, as much I hate Zia.

My mistake to have put so much faith into him in recent years. But I started course correction after April 3. And I ask fellow Pakistanis to put loyalty to Pakistan above anything else. There is no harm in taking a U-Turn about Imran Khan! You know, he himself said, U Turns are okay in circumstances! So unshackle yourself and make informed decisions and don't worship personalities!

Masla ya ha, who do we trust? Loyalty to Pakistan is there but someone has to run it.
Honestly, this shit show every few years embarrasses us Pakistani's more than anything we are made a laughing stock in front of the world.

 

[mudas777]

It was bound to happen!

There were multiple shut-up calls sent to IK for not praising India's foreign policy publicly, but he wasn't listening and deliberately avoiding it. You can not do this. He directly collided with the pivot of Pakistan's non-kinetic strategic policies. IK stepped outside the boundary, which was disastrous at all levels. He was capturing the attention of the Indian establishment and govt corridors.

Indian mainstream media was covering IK since day one but once he starts praising India's foreign policy, there was a sudden change in the entire Indian media coverage, their narrative and tone. Certainly, it was an expected. As of now, the Indian fascist regime has already built favorable grounds with respect to Kashmir FP (by utilizing Khan's recent remarks) and you will see this in the upcoming general elections.

Rationally, we are aligned with the western establishment and their policies since the partition, however, Pakistan's military always stands like a fireball when it comes to their defined doctrine. They won't tolerate, and won’t compromise if you directly interfere in their policies regarding India. For the west, that's completely acceptable if they really need Pakistan’s irrational support. No one can force Pakistan's military to accept Indian hegemony in the region.

Khan’s anonymous intervention into the domain that was pre-established by Pakistan’s powerful military establishment was completely unacceptable to them. That was an unintelligent, and brainless approach on IK's part. Consequently, that was enough reason to thrash IK from the power without wasting any time. NS tried that twice, and both times he was thrashed by the powers'.

Everyone should understand that there is a reason behind the existence of Pakistan, there is a reason for having armed forces and there are enough reasons for having anti-Indian doctrine -- vice-versa.

What Quaid said, all good captions and quotes, who should run the foreign policy, Army should be under the command of PM and all that, in reality, Pak military owns the country and they are the ones who drive the state policy whether you like it or not. Once you deviate from it, you will face the consequences. IK absolutely did the right thing. Praising someone's independent policy won't make you a traitor however, in reality, our govt(s) are working under extreme pressure and hostility.

Quaid didn't fought for our freedom for nothing and more then million Muslims didn't died for the Pakistan army and their sacrifices are for the freedom of Pakistan and Pakistan only.
We didn't got freedom to be enslaved by our own army. Army is not Pakistan and they are paid officials of our country like any other department. Pakistan army can't be high jacking our country folks freedom, if they think they are above the law then sooner or latter things are going to catch up with them.

Army in Iran thought of themselves too big for their boots at one time and Iran ended up with the people militia pasdaran. Looking down at your own people will never end well and is a dangerous recipe which have got severe long term consequences.
No one is blaming army for all this selling of their souls other then handful generals and those generals will be gone sooner or latter so lets leave it at that.

 

[Clutch]

It was bound to happen!

There were multiple shut-up calls sent to IK for not praising India's foreign policy publicly, but he wasn't listening and deliberately avoiding it. You can not do this. He directly collided with the pivot of Pakistan's non-kinetic strategic policies. IK stepped outside the boundary, which was disastrous at all levels. He was capturing the attention of the Indian establishment and govt corridors.

Indian mainstream media was covering IK since day one but once he starts praising India's foreign policy, there was a sudden change in the entire Indian media coverage, their narrative and tone. Certainly, it was an expected. As of now, the Indian fascist regime has already built favorable grounds with respect to Kashmir FP (by utilizing Khan's recent remarks) and you will see this in the upcoming general elections.

Rationally, we are aligned with the western establishment and their policies since the partition, however, Pakistan's military always stands like a fireball when it comes to their defined doctrine. They won't tolerate, and won’t compromise if you directly interfere in their policies regarding India. For the west, that's completely acceptable if they really need Pakistan’s irrational support. No one can force Pakistan's military to accept Indian hegemony in the region.

Khan’s anonymous intervention into the domain that was pre-established by Pakistan’s powerful military establishment was completely unacceptable to them. That was an unintelligent, and brainless approach on IK's part. Consequently, that was enough reason to thrash IK from the power without wasting any time. NS tried that twice, and both times he was thrashed by the powers'.

Everyone should understand that there is a reason behind the existence of Pakistan, there is a reason for having armed forces and there are enough reasons for having anti-Indian doctrine -- vice-versa.

What Quaid said, all good captions and quotes, who should run the foreign policy, Army should be under the command of PM and all that, in reality, Pak military owns the country and they are the ones who drive the state policy whether you like it or not. Once you deviate from it, you will face the consequences. IK absolutely did the right thing. Praising someone's independent policy won't make you a traitor however, in reality, our govt(s) are working under extreme pressure and hostility.

Huh?... A whole write up without a single quote??... Who wrote this?... What did Imran Khan say that praises Indian Foreign policy??

Build your economy, and then do whatever you want.

Chicken and the egg problem.

I say do both simultaneously.
... Not this beggars can't be choosers mantra BS.

I'm American... Are you my Pakistani slave???
.
Lol

 

[Mahmood-ur-Rehman]

It was bound to happen!

There were multiple shut-up calls sent to IK for not praising India's foreign policy publicly, but he wasn't listening and deliberately avoiding it. You can not do this. He directly collided with the pivot of Pakistan's non-kinetic strategic policies. IK stepped outside the boundary, which was disastrous at all levels. He was capturing the attention of the Indian establishment and govt corridors.

Indian mainstream media was covering IK since day one but once he starts praising India's foreign policy, there was a sudden change in the entire Indian media coverage, their narrative and tone. Certainly, it was an expected. As of now, the Indian fascist regime has already built favorable grounds with respect to Kashmir FP (by utilizing Khan's recent remarks) and you will see this in the upcoming general elections.

Rationally, we are aligned with the western establishment and their policies since the partition, however, Pakistan's military always stands like a fireball when it comes to their defined doctrine. They won't tolerate, and won’t compromise if you directly interfere in their policies regarding India. For the west, that's completely acceptable if they really need Pakistan’s irrational support. No one can force Pakistan's military to accept Indian hegemony in the region.

Khan’s anonymous intervention into the domain that was pre-established by Pakistan’s powerful military establishment was completely unacceptable to them. That was an unintelligent, and brainless approach on IK's part. Consequently, that was enough reason to thrash IK from the power without wasting any time. NS tried that twice, and both times he was thrashed by the powers'.

Everyone should understand that there is a reason behind the existence of Pakistan, there is a reason for having armed forces and there are enough reasons for having anti-Indian doctrine -- vice-versa.

What Quaid said, all good captions and quotes, who should run the foreign policy, Army should be under the command of PM and all that, in reality, Pak military owns the country and they are the ones who drive the state policy whether you like it or not. Once you deviate from it, you will face the consequences. IK absolutely did the right thing. Praising someone's independent policy won't make you a traitor however, in reality, our govt(s) are working under extreme pressure and hostility.

Totally illogical Response of the army was to give government to the Indian friends who met the Jindal secretly and welcome Mody on their mirages and give safe heaven to RAW agents in their factories, Give some other justification

 

[araz]

I think General Bajwa is trying to malign IK by implicating that he did the US financed coup to save Pakistan.

The only reason he did it was for his personal betterment not the country's.

You guys really need to take a chill pill. I am a fan of IK but also a realist. Lets face it and get our cards down on the table.
IK went because of an NCV. Politically he was weak as he had a minority government perched on the shoulder of some minority parties. These parties were cajoled (you know the means as well as I do) into withdrawing the support for IK. He had been told innumerable times to hold reelections but din not listen to the advisors
He tried a blatantly illegal way of turning down the NCV. This unfortunately was latched on to by the SC who after uncharacteristically rapid deliberation RIGHTLY turned the ruling of his DEP. Speaker illegal. I dare say not doing so would have left the parlianment open to being oppressed and the will of the majority suppressed. He was therefore forced to hold a vote which he lost.
The army is in a bad situation in all of this. It has RIGHTLY remained neutral as is its remit. Any interference would have further reinforced the selected label on IK by his accusers and harmed his long term prospects as a label of the "King's party" would have harmed him.
The current government is a hodge podge of goons from many parties who will not be able to run the state. With 135 seats vacant in the parlianment it will be a herculian task to organize re poling on these posts again. Street pressure will force mistakes and street pressure is IK forte.
So the likelihood is he will be reelected.
NOW WHERE ON THIS WHOLE FIASCO DO YOU SEE A ROLE OF THE ARMY?
The recent investigations recounted by FAWAD CHAUDHRY of PTI suggests 60% of the twitter/media posts maligning the army is coming from India. 20% from NOONIES disguised as Insafians. Do not fall victim to this baseless propaganda. If nothing else listen to the PTI leadership and hear what they are saying. They are desperately trying to tell everyone to not fall prey to this viscious maligning campaign against the army.
Rest I will leave you to decide.
A

Huh?... A whole write up without a single quote??... Who wrote this?... What did Imran Khan say that praises Indian Foreign policy??



Chicken and the egg problem.

I say do both simultaneously.
... Not this beggars can't be choosers mantra BS.

I'm American... Are you my Pakistani slave???
.
Lol

All IK said was that India refused to criticize the Russians for the Ukrainian war. That is not a praise as such but in this maligning campaign everything is Halal. No one wants to even listen to the PTI high ups.
A

 

[Meengla]

Masla ya ha, who do we trust? Loyalty to Pakistan is there but someone has to run it.
Honestly, this shit show every few years embarrasses us Pakistani's more than anything we are made a laughing stock in front of the world.

I don't trust anyone anymore in Pakistan, my friend. Burned too many times. Too many times. I know I will have to choose a side--the 'lesser evil'-- but I am not ready for that right now. Tentatively, I want Shehbaz Sharif to introduce good governance as he is supposed to be known for, until the next elections.

 

[Meengla]

IK went because of an NCV. Politically he was weak as he had a minority government perched on the shoulder of some minority parties. These parties were cajoled (you onow the means as well as I do) into withdrawing the support for IK. He has been told innumerable times to hold reelections but has not listened to the advisors
He tried a blatantly illegal way of turning down the NCV. This unfortunately was latched on to by the SC who after uncharacteristically rapid deliberation RIGHTLY turned the ruling of his DEP. Speaker illegal.

If you can write all that and still condone such an illegal act by a reckless Imran Khan then I don't know what to say? Just read your post above! What was it that was keeping Buzdar as the CM of the most important province of Pakistan except Imran Khan's ego?? That's just an example.

BTW, they were first 'cajoled' into supporting Imran Khan after the 2018 elections by the same forces which have now UnCajoled them. I remember watching a show where journalist Haroon Rashid said that MQM members were made to sit on 'Thanday Farash' (Cold Floor) by the security agencies until MQM had to support Imran Khan to form a govt. Everyone must read the Hamid Mir article from January 2022 which I have referenced above. This change of govt was not a surprise!

Here is a scene from a great movie ('1492: Conquest of Paradise') which I had seen decades ago and never forgotten, to describe the latest drama of Pakistan's politics: