ExtraOdinary
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Messages
- 3,354
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
Have'nt we already done that in past? Operation Sarp Vinash?
Operation Tirah Valley | News & Updates
- Thread starter Slav Defence
- Start date
Have'nt we already done that in past? Operation Sarp Vinash?
Gentelman
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 2,307
- Reaction score
- 1
- Country
- Location
Artillary is not being used there maybe because of dense forest and it's much difficult to spot the terrorists in such dense forest in bushes and hidden spots
even helis are used to certain extents
StormShadow
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Messages
- 3,485
- Reaction score
- -10
If i remember correctly, it was launched well within Indian territory where Indian army and Govt have a hold. Pl correct me if i'm wrong. But in this operation, pak army does not have control of their own territory and hence they are struggling to take it back.
Gentelman
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 2,307
- Reaction score
- 1
- Country
- Location
the durond line and indo pak border cannot be compared……
durond line is one of the hardest borders in the world without and mines and wires etc while indo pak border is mostly plain land with a bit mountains reign while pak-Afghan border is fully mountanious reign with harsh and difficult mountains mostely barren and hard……
and those people are trained there and born there they are locals who cross border daily and there are many un noticed areas……
Overall there are 1000s of ways from pak to afghanistans……
there are many caves many mines and many such areas expect the simpler way……
and pak-Afghan border is very light coz of travelling of people fem KPK and Afghanistan on daily basic…
Shardul.....the lion
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,074
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
This is Tirah vally , as you can see the Terrain is very Helpful for Defending Forces .
Paradise lost?????
EyelessInGaza
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,378
- Reaction score
- 0
Sounds like some mountainous, forested, green fighting hell. But also:
Jango
SENIOR MODERATOR
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2010
- Messages
- 21,530
- Reaction score
- 99
- Country
- Location
PESHAWAR: At least 15 militants were killed on Thursday in an operation carried out by security forces in Khyber tribal region’s Tirah valley, DawnNews reported.
According to Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), security forces conducted an operation in which 15 militants and one security officer was also killed.
Moreover, the exchange of fire between militants and security officers are still continuing in southern sector of Tirah valley.
At least 15 militants killed in Khyber
According to Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), security forces conducted an operation in which 15 militants and one security officer was also killed.
Moreover, the exchange of fire between militants and security officers are still continuing in southern sector of Tirah valley.
At least 15 militants killed in Khyber
fatman17
PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 32,563
- Reaction score
- 98
- Country
- Location
Tirah Valley Operation
•As of Tuesday, soldiers in the Tirah valley have killed at least 110 Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and Lashkar-e-Islam (LI) militants in ongoing operations. Over thirty soldiers have died since fighting started on Friday, and officials report that security forces have successfully liberated the town of Tut Sar, which they are now using as a check post.[1]
•On Monday, security forces and helicopters killed eight militants in an attack on the Gorak area of lower Orakzai. [2]
•On Monday night, a soldier died after militants attacked him in Bara sub-district of Khyber agency. [3]
oh ok....if u say so
•As of Tuesday, soldiers in the Tirah valley have killed at least 110 Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and Lashkar-e-Islam (LI) militants in ongoing operations. Over thirty soldiers have died since fighting started on Friday, and officials report that security forces have successfully liberated the town of Tut Sar, which they are now using as a check post.[1]
•On Monday, security forces and helicopters killed eight militants in an attack on the Gorak area of lower Orakzai. [2]
•On Monday night, a soldier died after militants attacked him in Bara sub-district of Khyber agency. [3]
oh ok....if u say so
qamar1990
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2012
- Messages
- 5,930
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
well i guess not cause that was a failure.
Devil Soul
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2010
- Messages
- 22,931
- Reaction score
- 45
- Country
- Location
Fighting rages in Tirah, 15 militants, one soldier killed: Army
By Reuters Published: April 11, 2013
PESHAWAR: Fifteen militants and one soldier were killed on Thursday when the Pakistani military mounted another operation in a week of fighting designed to seize control of a remote but strategic valley in the northwest, the army said.
The military has faced fierce resistance from the Taliban and its allies in the Tirah Valley in the Khyber region since troops set out to dislodge insurgents from strategically important heights above the valley six days ago.
Pakistani military officials say insurgents use the valley as a base camp that enables them to carry out raids in other semi-autonomous tribal areas near the Afghan border.
Fresh clashes started early Thursday when the security forces launched another operation to secure control of the valley, said a military official in the northwestern Pakistani city of Peshawar, adding that 15 militants and a soldier had been killed.
On Tuesday, the military said 23 Pakistani soldiers and 110 militants had been killed in four days of fierce fighting in the area.
Since 2009, the Pakistani military and pro-government militias have clawed back territory from the Taliban, who once controlled land a few hours drive from the capital, Islamabad.
However, a series of army offensives have failed to break the back of the Taliban, which is close to al Qaeda and is blamed for many of the suicide bombings across nuclear-armed Pakistan, a strategic US ally.
By Reuters Published: April 11, 2013
PESHAWAR: Fifteen militants and one soldier were killed on Thursday when the Pakistani military mounted another operation in a week of fighting designed to seize control of a remote but strategic valley in the northwest, the army said.
The military has faced fierce resistance from the Taliban and its allies in the Tirah Valley in the Khyber region since troops set out to dislodge insurgents from strategically important heights above the valley six days ago.
Pakistani military officials say insurgents use the valley as a base camp that enables them to carry out raids in other semi-autonomous tribal areas near the Afghan border.
Fresh clashes started early Thursday when the security forces launched another operation to secure control of the valley, said a military official in the northwestern Pakistani city of Peshawar, adding that 15 militants and a soldier had been killed.
On Tuesday, the military said 23 Pakistani soldiers and 110 militants had been killed in four days of fierce fighting in the area.
Since 2009, the Pakistani military and pro-government militias have clawed back territory from the Taliban, who once controlled land a few hours drive from the capital, Islamabad.
However, a series of army offensives have failed to break the back of the Taliban, which is close to al Qaeda and is blamed for many of the suicide bombings across nuclear-armed Pakistan, a strategic US ally.
Rajput_Pakistani
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2012
- Messages
- 1,149
- Reaction score
- 7
- Country
- Location
The Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA; Pashto: وسطي قبایلي سیمې، منځنۍ پښتونخوا‎; Urdu: قبائلی علاقہ جات‎
are a semi-autonomous tribal region in northwestern Pakistan, bordering Pakistan's provinces of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan to the east and south, and Afghanistan's provinces of Kunar, Nangarhar, Paktia, Khost and Paktika to the west and north. The Federally Administered Tribal Areas comprise seven tribal agencies (districts) and six frontier regions, and are directly governed by Pakistan's federal government through a special set of laws called the Frontier Crimes Regulations (FCR).
The territory is almost exclusively inhabited by the Pashtuns, who also live in the neighboring Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and eastern Afghanistan and are Muslim by faith. Afghanistan claims the territory as its own. Afghanistan was the only country to vote against Pakistans accession to the United Nations after Pakistan's independence because of Kabuls claim on the Pashtun territories located on Pakistan's side of the Durand Line.[3] Main towns of the territory are Parachinar, Miranshah, Razmak, Kaniguram, Wana, Kalaya, Landi Kotal, Ghalanai and Khaar.
Source: Wikipedia
Now this area after 2001 US invasion of Afghanistan became the hub of militants, who fled from Afghanistan. Pakistani Taliban a.k.a TTP first emerge in 2003-04. Nek Muhammad was its first leader, who was killed in 2004. TTP is speculated to be sponsored by some foreign agencies to destabilize Pakistan and to bring WoT inside Pakistan. TTP gained power quickly as they were heavily funded from outside. They killed local Maliks of tribes and spread throughout FATA within no time. Pakistan Army was in no position to launch all-out assault in all of FATA at the same time due to variety of reasons.
Few of which are:
1. Extremely difficult terrain
2. Very few road links
3. Tribal society culture
4. IDPs
5. Weather (almost no fighting is possible during winter, it remains a lull in fight during winter)
6. Open border with Afghanistan
7. Limited resources. Pakistan cannot shift all its resources to one front; it will require almost a division for each agency. Logistics are a night mare. Closest cantonment is Peshawar, so is the airport.
Initially Pakistan plan was to contain militants in FATA only. During 2002 to 2007, MMA Government in KPK (formally NWFP), militants spread to settle areas also. Local civil administration either remains idol or supported Taliban take over into settled areas. Problems for Pakistan were raining over her 1 by 1.
2007 witnessed the worst turmoil for Pakistan in recent years, Lawyers movement, political instability, Lal mosque incident, collapse of Musharraf's regime, BB assassination. Among all this chaos, one day we Pakistanis woke up with the news on media about fall of SWAT to Taliban. Who were responsible for this blunder, we don't know up till now. The rest is history, how Pakistan Army regained SWAT and the kind of casualties we suffered is another story. Now in 2013, still Army is in Swat protecting it. Civilian administration is still not able to take on responsibility of even cleared areas. TTP has spread throughout Pakistan, as they have found many allies in Karachi, Quetta and Southern Punjab.
2008 till now, Pakistan witnessed the worst terrorism in the world.
Now, Pakistan Army has few cards left for FATA. In my view Pakistan army adopted a good strategy. Instead of going in blindly, they first make a split among militants. If you googled the net, you will find a report of Ashraf Ali, who is the director of Islamabad based Think tank FATA Research institute. According to his estimates there are around 130 militants group in FATA, fighting among and against state. Many smugglers, drug dealers and notorious criminals have find refuge in these militant groups.
Tirah Valley a very strategic area remains an important objective for at least 3 large militant groups. TTP, Lashker-e-Islam, Ansar-ul-Islam are the main contenders. Lashker-e-Islam is a Deobandi group, while Ansar-ul-Islam is a Brelvi group. Recent years witnessed bloody skirmishes between these two as both tried to take control of this strategic valley. LI naturally was supported by TTP, as AI remain in a truce with Pakistani state. Pakistan on occasions supported AI through aerial and artillery bombing against attacking LI/Taliban militants. Rival fighting among these militant groups indirectly helped PA in past.
Having an ally in the form of AI in Tirah valley, Pakistan army now was able to focus on other agencies. They made local tribal lashkars, armed them, so that they can hold on to their areas, if TTP try to take over. This stopped the spread of TTP. After that PA conducted operation one by one in all agencies. South Waziristan, Khyber, Bajour, Swat, Dir, Mohmand are all under control now.
North Waziristan remains a stronghold of TTP up till now. Military strategy is all about hitting at the point, where the rest of enemy's strength rest. If Tirah Valley is taken over by PA, then if i am not wrong, TTP will lose its 80% strength straight away. As they will be isolated in North Waziristan with supplies cut off from across the border. And if they take over control of this valley, then their strength will multiply and all gains made in past few years could be in danger.
As I said before during winters, there remains a lull in fight. In March this year, TTP and LI with the onset of summer, started offensive against AI in Tirah valley. PAF and PA supported AI through aerial support. You can find news about these events in tits & bits from google as well as PDF. In middle of March, TTP and LI over ran AI headquarters. Its leadership fled, while more than 43000 tribal civilians also flee to neighboring agencies and Peshawar. One notable event happened was 2 suicide bomb attacks on TTP by AI bombers, in which according to reports 80+ TTP militants were killed along with Uzbek commander. Fall of Tirah valley to TTP obviously ring alarms in PA leadership. Now before going further, the question arises why TTP launch offensive and capture Tirah valley?
There could be many possibilities, 2 of which are:
It could be that TTP get an Intel about possible PA offensive in North Waziristan, and this was an attempt to disrupt PA planning.
After Taliban fled Swat, Molvi Fazalullah and the rest found refuge in Kunnar Province of Afghanistan. Kunnar borders with Pakistans Bajor agency of FATA. Molvi Fazullulah launched many attacks against Pakistani territory from Afghanistan. It was towards the end of 2012, that PA takes control of all Bajor and setup posts on the last mountain in Pakistan territory. It was a big blow to militants as they lost important supply route. Desperate attempts were made by them to re-capture those posts on border and PA repulsed even battalion size attacks there. Having lost Bajor route, now its only the Tirah valley, through which TTP can link up with its supporters across border. It could be this reason that TTP is trying to capture Tirah valley.
Coming to this latest battle in Tirah now, I have read many posts on why PA is acting now? I think I have tried to answer that above. Also people have been asking why SSG are being used. The answer to this could be found in reading details of Operation Raah-e-Nijat.
Remember Swat operations and capture of Peochar Valley?
Peochar Valley closely resembles Tirah valley. Mountains and thick forests make it impossible to use gunships and artillery to root out well dug militants. Only way is to put boots on grounds. Now, if you start operation from downhill towards up, you will be a sitting duck. PA used SSG drop on mountain, then clear some area to allow more infantry dropped there, and then start clearing the hill. This method is also very dangerous, but still plausible as compared to uphill attack. Pakistan army is fighting a really difficult war, we being a nation must support them in every possible way. InshAllah they will succeed and these operations will be written in military history with golden words.
All prays for Pakistan Armys success and those soldiers, who have sacrificed their lives for motherland. May Allah be with Pak Army, we love you so much.
are a semi-autonomous tribal region in northwestern Pakistan, bordering Pakistan's provinces of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan to the east and south, and Afghanistan's provinces of Kunar, Nangarhar, Paktia, Khost and Paktika to the west and north. The Federally Administered Tribal Areas comprise seven tribal agencies (districts) and six frontier regions, and are directly governed by Pakistan's federal government through a special set of laws called the Frontier Crimes Regulations (FCR).The territory is almost exclusively inhabited by the Pashtuns, who also live in the neighboring Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and eastern Afghanistan and are Muslim by faith. Afghanistan claims the territory as its own. Afghanistan was the only country to vote against Pakistans accession to the United Nations after Pakistan's independence because of Kabuls claim on the Pashtun territories located on Pakistan's side of the Durand Line.[3] Main towns of the territory are Parachinar, Miranshah, Razmak, Kaniguram, Wana, Kalaya, Landi Kotal, Ghalanai and Khaar.
Source: Wikipedia
Now this area after 2001 US invasion of Afghanistan became the hub of militants, who fled from Afghanistan. Pakistani Taliban a.k.a TTP first emerge in 2003-04. Nek Muhammad was its first leader, who was killed in 2004. TTP is speculated to be sponsored by some foreign agencies to destabilize Pakistan and to bring WoT inside Pakistan. TTP gained power quickly as they were heavily funded from outside. They killed local Maliks of tribes and spread throughout FATA within no time. Pakistan Army was in no position to launch all-out assault in all of FATA at the same time due to variety of reasons.
Few of which are:
1. Extremely difficult terrain
2. Very few road links
3. Tribal society culture
4. IDPs
5. Weather (almost no fighting is possible during winter, it remains a lull in fight during winter)
6. Open border with Afghanistan
7. Limited resources. Pakistan cannot shift all its resources to one front; it will require almost a division for each agency. Logistics are a night mare. Closest cantonment is Peshawar, so is the airport.
Initially Pakistan plan was to contain militants in FATA only. During 2002 to 2007, MMA Government in KPK (formally NWFP), militants spread to settle areas also. Local civil administration either remains idol or supported Taliban take over into settled areas. Problems for Pakistan were raining over her 1 by 1.
2007 witnessed the worst turmoil for Pakistan in recent years, Lawyers movement, political instability, Lal mosque incident, collapse of Musharraf's regime, BB assassination. Among all this chaos, one day we Pakistanis woke up with the news on media about fall of SWAT to Taliban. Who were responsible for this blunder, we don't know up till now. The rest is history, how Pakistan Army regained SWAT and the kind of casualties we suffered is another story. Now in 2013, still Army is in Swat protecting it. Civilian administration is still not able to take on responsibility of even cleared areas. TTP has spread throughout Pakistan, as they have found many allies in Karachi, Quetta and Southern Punjab.
2008 till now, Pakistan witnessed the worst terrorism in the world.
Now, Pakistan Army has few cards left for FATA. In my view Pakistan army adopted a good strategy. Instead of going in blindly, they first make a split among militants. If you googled the net, you will find a report of Ashraf Ali, who is the director of Islamabad based Think tank FATA Research institute. According to his estimates there are around 130 militants group in FATA, fighting among and against state. Many smugglers, drug dealers and notorious criminals have find refuge in these militant groups.
Tirah Valley a very strategic area remains an important objective for at least 3 large militant groups. TTP, Lashker-e-Islam, Ansar-ul-Islam are the main contenders. Lashker-e-Islam is a Deobandi group, while Ansar-ul-Islam is a Brelvi group. Recent years witnessed bloody skirmishes between these two as both tried to take control of this strategic valley. LI naturally was supported by TTP, as AI remain in a truce with Pakistani state. Pakistan on occasions supported AI through aerial and artillery bombing against attacking LI/Taliban militants. Rival fighting among these militant groups indirectly helped PA in past.
Having an ally in the form of AI in Tirah valley, Pakistan army now was able to focus on other agencies. They made local tribal lashkars, armed them, so that they can hold on to their areas, if TTP try to take over. This stopped the spread of TTP. After that PA conducted operation one by one in all agencies. South Waziristan, Khyber, Bajour, Swat, Dir, Mohmand are all under control now.
North Waziristan remains a stronghold of TTP up till now. Military strategy is all about hitting at the point, where the rest of enemy's strength rest. If Tirah Valley is taken over by PA, then if i am not wrong, TTP will lose its 80% strength straight away. As they will be isolated in North Waziristan with supplies cut off from across the border. And if they take over control of this valley, then their strength will multiply and all gains made in past few years could be in danger.
As I said before during winters, there remains a lull in fight. In March this year, TTP and LI with the onset of summer, started offensive against AI in Tirah valley. PAF and PA supported AI through aerial support. You can find news about these events in tits & bits from google as well as PDF. In middle of March, TTP and LI over ran AI headquarters. Its leadership fled, while more than 43000 tribal civilians also flee to neighboring agencies and Peshawar. One notable event happened was 2 suicide bomb attacks on TTP by AI bombers, in which according to reports 80+ TTP militants were killed along with Uzbek commander. Fall of Tirah valley to TTP obviously ring alarms in PA leadership. Now before going further, the question arises why TTP launch offensive and capture Tirah valley?
There could be many possibilities, 2 of which are:
It could be that TTP get an Intel about possible PA offensive in North Waziristan, and this was an attempt to disrupt PA planning.
After Taliban fled Swat, Molvi Fazalullah and the rest found refuge in Kunnar Province of Afghanistan. Kunnar borders with Pakistans Bajor agency of FATA. Molvi Fazullulah launched many attacks against Pakistani territory from Afghanistan. It was towards the end of 2012, that PA takes control of all Bajor and setup posts on the last mountain in Pakistan territory. It was a big blow to militants as they lost important supply route. Desperate attempts were made by them to re-capture those posts on border and PA repulsed even battalion size attacks there. Having lost Bajor route, now its only the Tirah valley, through which TTP can link up with its supporters across border. It could be this reason that TTP is trying to capture Tirah valley.
Coming to this latest battle in Tirah now, I have read many posts on why PA is acting now? I think I have tried to answer that above. Also people have been asking why SSG are being used. The answer to this could be found in reading details of Operation Raah-e-Nijat.
Remember Swat operations and capture of Peochar Valley?
Peochar Valley closely resembles Tirah valley. Mountains and thick forests make it impossible to use gunships and artillery to root out well dug militants. Only way is to put boots on grounds. Now, if you start operation from downhill towards up, you will be a sitting duck. PA used SSG drop on mountain, then clear some area to allow more infantry dropped there, and then start clearing the hill. This method is also very dangerous, but still plausible as compared to uphill attack. Pakistan army is fighting a really difficult war, we being a nation must support them in every possible way. InshAllah they will succeed and these operations will be written in military history with golden words.
All prays for Pakistan Armys success and those soldiers, who have sacrificed their lives for motherland. May Allah be with Pak Army, we love you so much.
EyelessInGaza
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,378
- Reaction score
- 0
@Rajput_Pakistani, I have not quoted your entire post for space reasons, but have simply retained the parts I thought most relevant.
But it is a very interesting, helpful and detailed analysis. Thanks for your effort.
Why Tirah valley is important:
Recent history of Tirah valley:
Pakistani Army tactics at Tirah valley:
On your description of PA tactics, it seems the SSG is being used as the 'tip of the spear' with the intention of first entering enemy territory near or on the mountain tops, clearing and holding the area until the infantry can get in.
Starting at or near the top seems to be key as opposed to starting from the foothill. That would suggest that the SSG and succeeding infantry waves are being 'heli-dropped', which suggest the extensive use of helicopters? Not sure how they'd land near the mountain tops otherwise.
But it is a very interesting, helpful and detailed analysis. Thanks for your effort.
Why Tirah valley is important:
Recent history of Tirah valley:
Pakistani Army tactics at Tirah valley:
On your description of PA tactics, it seems the SSG is being used as the 'tip of the spear' with the intention of first entering enemy territory near or on the mountain tops, clearing and holding the area until the infantry can get in.
Starting at or near the top seems to be key as opposed to starting from the foothill. That would suggest that the SSG and succeeding infantry waves are being 'heli-dropped', which suggest the extensive use of helicopters? Not sure how they'd land near the mountain tops otherwise.
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
