Open Discussion: Myanmar and Bangladesh Armed Force

[UKBengali]

Your post is well taken. But I fail to see how potential squadrons of fighters (we have to wait and see what actually happens) can provide much help since they cannot be always provide air cover to a dedicated maritime operation (ignoring they might be needed elsewhere) unless you want to stay completely predictable and be limited to near-coastal operations. In which case Myanmar has even more options.

As for the modern frigates to be procured, what are the updates/specifics on this?

BD Navy has put in a request for for 2 modern frigates and no good reason for BD government to deny this.
The warships will almost certainly come front either China or Sunday Korea.

Even taken out the involvement of BD air-force, these frigates along with associated corvettes like
Type-056 that BD Navy is currently inducting in numbers, would mean that even a combined Myanmar air and naval attack would potentially be very costly for the attacking force without a high probability of success.

 

[ghost250]

we need them urgently coz at the time our flagship is just a corvette.. we realized extremely weak to counter any external threat.. then we were focusing what we need to do in navy.. now u can see that tree is bearing fruits..
in past 8 years.. we built
3 frigates , 2 corvettes , 2 49 series FACs and dazens of gun and missiles FACs ,6 LCM , 6LCUs. and more are building.. that's not parity.. just fixing the errors..

in case of Yak , we dont rush.. our negotitation started in 2014.. finalized in 2015 and delievery start at the end of this year.. may be even starting before u.. or not different time interval between us..

if so we can also say that we assembled K-8w , u tried to get them.. when we got license built Igla-S locally.., u tried to get that of QW-2.. and again we bought Mi-24P , u followed with order of more Mi-17 V5 attack version.. so can we say u're following Myanmar way..? Actually , no.. both armed force are just following the way of own road map or long term programme.. nothing more nothing less.

what r the anti air capabilities of those frigates??

 

[Nilgiri]

BD Navy has put in a request for for 2 modern frigates and no good reason for BD government to deny this.
The warships will almost certainly come front either China or Sunday Korea.

Request? It has to materialise (there is thing called funding). Did BD navy put out what classes it is interested in for this request? What is sunday korea?

Even taken out the involvement of BD air-force, these frigates along with associated corvettes like
Type-056 that BD Navy is currently inducting in numbers, would mean that even a combined Myanmar air and naval attack would potentially very costly for the attacking force without a high probability of success.

I doubt it, 2 - 4 corvettes is not enough given the cheap chinese radar that @madokafc has already talked about. They most likely will not be able to pick up a sea skimming missile compared to the actual frigate's older but more trusted and competent thales radar system....especially in its terminal phase when evasion and unpredictable maneuvering is employed at supersonic speed.

They are more to give extra coverage to more easily intercepted aerial threats. A good thing to have for sure when hedging and projecting power, but not difficult for Myanmar to plan around using asymmetric countering it already has.

 

[UKBengali]

I doubt it, 2 - 4 corvettes is not enough given the cheap chinese radar that @madokafc has already talked about. They most likely will not be able to pick up a sea skimming missile compared to the actual frigate's older but more trusted and competent thales radar system....especially in its terminal phase when evasion and unpredictable maneuvering is employed at supersonic speed.

They are more to give extra coverage to more easily intercepted aerial threats. A good thing to have for sure when hedging and projecting power, but not difficult for Myanmar to plan around using asymmetric countering it already has.

The radar on the Type-056 is modern and would be better than that on the Ulsan class that is now 2 decades old.

I think you have a bias against Chinese systems. Anyway let us leave this as no there is no point when we
basically disagree widely on the capability of the systems.

 

[Nilgiri]

The radar on the Type-056 is modern and would be better than that on the Ulsan class that is now 2 decades old.

I think you have a bias against Chinese systems. Anyway let us leave this as no there is no point when we
basically disagree widely on the capability of the systems.

Newer does not mean better. I am talking about just the raw air search volume capability and resolution here. A frigate simply has more room to hold a larger system with much higher total power output and processing capability.

 

[UKBengali]

Newer does not mean better. I am talking about just the raw air search volume capability and resolution here. A frigate simply has more room to hold a larger system with much higher total power output and processing capability.

No you do not understand the capability of the radar and FM-90 SAM on the Typs-056 corvette. It has less power but it's electronics are far more modern than the 1990s Thales system.

This 100 million dollar ship that was only inducted in 2013 would have little trouble dealing with a pair of sea-skimming cruise missiles as that is one of the things it was specifically designed to deal with.

Anyway like I say let us leave this as we will never agree.

 

[Nilgiri]

No you do not understand the capability of the radar and FM-90 SAM on the Typs-056 corvette. It has less power but it's electronics are far more modern than the 1990s Thales system.

Overall capability is much less for the corvette, especially if BNS Bangabandhu has the MTI version of DA08 instead of FFT.

Newer generation electronics give only small incremental increase in efficiency....especially given both systems we are comparing trace their lineage to the 70s and 80s in their fundamental architecture. Incremental efficiency gain helps to extract more out of a given volume/weight constraint....but a frigate simply smothers this significantly by its total raw power output to begin with.

Compare the numbers for example:

http://www.liquisearch.com/type_347_radar/specifications

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm?ARC_ID=787

Not exactly apples to apples, but a 2 sq m target acquisition range of 12 kilometers for the type 347 suggests significantly lower peak power than what the DA 08 states (well above 100 km for "aerial targets").

This 100 million dollar ship that was only inducted in 2013 would have little trouble dealing with a pair of sea-skimming cruise missiles as that is one of the things it was specifically designed to deal with.

I doubt it (for the corvette) given its pick up range for small targets compared to the frigate.....and given sea skimmers have countermeasures such as terminal erratic maneuvering these days.

Picking this up with enough resolution and range for this corvette is doubtful....its why the Chinese have gone for mass numbers of them....they are not effective stand alone systems....and having 2 - 4 while better than having 0....is not really going to amount to much if your foe has a capability to launch multiple super sonic sea skimmers...which is the very nature of asymmetric warfare (esp given the cost involved).

If you paid 50 million for each of this corvette type, how much did you pay for BNS bangbandhu?

 

[UKBengali]

Overall capability is much less for the corvette, especially if BNS Bangabandhu has the MTI version of DA08 instead of FFT.

Newer generation electronics give only small incremental increase in efficiency....especially given both systems we are comparing trace their lineage to the 70s and 80s in their fundamental architecture. Incremental efficiency gain helps to extract more out of a given volume/weight constraint....but a frigate simply smothers this significantly by its total raw power output to begin with.

Compare the numbers for example:

http://www.liquisearch.com/type_347_radar/specifications

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm?ARC_ID=787

Not exactly apples to apples, but a 2 sq m target acquisition range of 12 kilometers for the type 347 suggests significantly lower peak power than what the DA 08 states (well above 100 km for "aerial targets").



I doubt it (for the corvette) given its pick up range for small targets compared to the frigate.....and given sea skimmers have countermeasures such as terminal erratic maneuvering these days.

Picking this up with enough resolution and range for this corvette is doubtful....its why the Chinese have gone for mass numbers of them....they are not effective stand alone systems....and having 2 - 4 while better than having 0....is not really going to amount to much if your foe has a capability to launch multiple super sonic sea skimmers...which is the very nature of asymmetric warfare (esp given the cost involved).

If you paid 50 million for each of this corvette type, how much did you pay for BNS bangbandhu?

Each Type-056 cost 100 million US dollars and BD will have 8 by 2020. BNS
Bangbandhu cost 100 million dollars when brought.

And why you keep talking about Type-347 radar as that is not the one on the Type-056 corvette?

 

[Nilgiri]

Each Type-056 cost 100 million US dollars and BD will have 8 by 2020.

Hmm ok. But it said on the page that Nigeria spent 42 million for each of theirs.

Do you have a link for this figure of 100 million each?

How much did BNS Bangabandhu cost in comparison?

 

[alaungphaya]

Each Type-056 cost 100 million US dollars and BD will have 8 by 2020. BNS
Bangbandhu cost 100 million dollars when brought.

And why you keep talking about Type-347 radar as that is not the one on the Type-056 corvette?

Where is the 8 going to come from. You have 2 now and 2 on order. Has there been a firm order on the other 4?

 

[Nilgiri]

Where is the 8 going to come from. You have 2 now and 2 on order. Has there been a firm order on the other 4?

Its all part of the "requests" from BN to BD govt.

 

[jha]

then we have
31 MiG-29
36+ F-7
16 JF-17 block 2
3+ Yak-130
so we have 87+ 4th gen aircraft... lol



lol.. what ..? without R & D and TOT , making own designed frigate..!? lol how..!? may be paper frigate..!?

I think Myanmar Air Force and IAF should do some exercises then. Will be an excellent opportunity for your Airforce to learn about Su-30 and may be our guys would get to know JF-17..

 

[bluesky]

Nothing from your country can get me off. I guess the answer is you don't have air based anti-ship weapons then. You could have just said that, you know.

Do you work for your country's military intelligence? If not, why are you so eager to get information from our people?

That's funny because before we showed you unequivocally that we have the superior military, the talk around these forums was about supporting the Rohingya insurgency and retaking Arakan . Now it turns out we're not enemies. That's good. I guess if you want peace you have to carry a big stick.

This guy has all kinds of weird logic.

 

[Aung Zaya]

The radar on the Type-056 is modern and would be better than that on the Ulsan class that is now 2 decades old.

i would disgree on this..
it will depend on the role and the mission of that corvette..
see the case of F-7..
BD 's F-7 in service at 2006 installed KLJ 6E/F ( Chinese varient of EL/M 2001b) mean while our F-7 finished isreal upgrade at around 1997.. and installed EL/M 2032 inside..

 

[TopCat]

i would disgree on this..
it will depend on the role and the mission of that corvette..
see the case of F-7..
BD 's F-7 in service at 2006 installed KLJ 6E/F ( Chinese varient of EL/M 2001b) mean while our F-7 finished isreal upgrade at around 1997.. and installed EL/M 2032 inside..

Type 056 is a front line active corvette used by PLAN.