Featured Only 10% of IT Graduates Are Employable in Pakistan: Gallup

[313ghazi]

The Indian industry famously grew because the Government did not suspect that we were an industry, and ignored us, so we built something, taking full advantage of the Y2K scare, and then let the babus into the secret.

Yes, some of them did help. L. K. Jha was actually the father of Indian IT, and not the names that are tossed around.

This is the greatest thing about IT. The babu types have no idea what it is. They can't pollute it or control it.

 

[Salman Baig]

I been in IT for last 19 years (Incl. BSCS education). Worked with many Indians too. In my opinion IT people from south from Hyderabad, Chennai are true professional and don't really care that they are working with Pakistanis but I had worst experience when I was made technical lead on developers from Delhi. They simply don't corporate.

Regarding that 10% thing when I graduated in 2004; we were a batch of ~84 students and hardly 10 of them choose IT as their profession. Main reason is that students were not able to develop aptitude of programming. And teachers style didn't helped in this case either. HEC need to do few things to solve this issue.

1- Programming & database courses should only be taught by a person who is practically working on them. These PHDs are useless to teach these courses at graduation level. For these courses even a simple graduate with 5 years hand on experience is far better than a PHD who has never done programming or who left programming for education.
2- One course of second last semester should be based on trending tools and giving getting started lectures to it.

But we can't put every thing on HEC. During second last semester or third last semester student must take programming & tool courses from outside university. Trend of tools keep on changing. BSCS only give you basics but to land a job you need these courses.
And the most important thing that final project should be done by yourself; instead of paying someone else to do it. After graduation when I started freelancing i accept I did paid final projects of students though none of them were from universities of Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why babus are a problem in the subcontinent and why IT industry and other industries hate them?
These civil servants are top guys from top universities so what turns them into monsters? or they are just scapegoats?

A brilliant question!

Let me first ask a (sort of) babu.

@jbgt90

Sir, your wise thoughts are sought.

 

[Yaseen1]

it is not limited to IT only but also for engineering graduates

 

[Joe Shearer]

I had worst experience when I was made technical lead on developers from Delhi. They simply don't corporate.

So now you know the worst kept secret in the world!

It's like this: please read carefully.

The best production, the best predictability is from Maharashtrians and Telugus (Andhras, preferably). They may not be 100%, but they will produce a steady 80% of your expected KLOC in a year. The second brightest, ahead of these two, are the Tamilians; if they cannot execute what they have promised, they suffer the tortures of hell. The brightest are the Malayalis, but they are SO difficult to handle (difficult to handle is different from uncouth, alternately rude and sycophantic, two legged beasts from the Bimaru states) that it takes another Malayali supervisor to oversee them. Now that you have two of them in your set-up, that's it; in a year's time, 95% of the workers will be speaking Malayalam. For Rambo missions, hire a Bangali, BUT he will chew up 50% of your time; Bangalis are high maintenance (look at me, for instance). Other easterners are peace-loving and placid, and no trouble, and not much thunder and lightning around them either; just like their southern counterparts, the Kannadigas.

it is not limited to IT only but also for engineering graduates

The difficulty is right there. IT graduates are a sub-set of the total.

 

[T90TankGuy]

A brilliant question!

Let me first ask a (sort of) babu.

@jbgt90

Sir, your wise thoughts are sought.

You really want me to answer? we had a conversation about this the other day , how they are the bane and sometimes the only pillar we can lean on .
While most senior Babus are intelligent (semi) , its the pencil pushers who actually cause the most harm. the lower and even the mid level staff have chips on their shoulder which sometime gets in the way of their natural intelligence and conscience.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You really want me to answer? we had a conversation about this the other day , how they are the bane and sometimes the only pillar we can lean on .
While most senior Babus are intelligent (semi) , its the pencil pushers who actually cause the most harm. the lower and even the mid level staff have chips on their shoulder which sometime gets in the way of their natural intelligence and conscience.

@Ahmad Saleem

There you are. I can't tell you what he does, or I'll land up behind bars, but he knows babudom from inside.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Bangalis are high maintenance (look at me, for instance).

What a wonderful Joe Sheareresque comment to end the week!

 

[Joe Shearer]

What a wonderful Joe Sheareresque comment to end the week!

No, but it's true! I have studiously kept Bangalis out of my teams, except for one or two fire-fighters. Honest.

What a wonderful Joe Sheareresque comment to end the week!

Aw hell!

I'm trying to behave, and don't tell me you haven't noticed.

developers from Delhi. They simply don't corporate.

If you have to do it again, the first day, kick them in the balls.

Once that's out of the way, North Indians are OK. Not very good at programming, but OK socially. I didn't pick any of them who weren't outstanding.

Actually that's not entirely right, now that I think back.

In that Indo-British joint venture I managed, many of the senior HAL executives came to me for jobs for their sons, and I found them quite good to work with. Also, some of my top technical programme managers, the highest they could get before DGM or GM, were north Indians. After I left, HCL poached them to set up an aerospace company to work with the French, who were working with us before.

I suppose it's a culture thing, and the boss decides the culture.

 

[swnjo]

When I got out from my IT learnings from NIIT the underlined was called "Real time projects", pay something like 5000 rupees or more to do some module of some vaguely set up project so as to get an experience certificate.

By the way, what is it about the non-White races that they have not been able to design the two fundamental things in computing, namely the microprocessor and the operating system ? When a civil engineer or architect is expected to be able to build or design a house or office or public space I don't see why a computer engineer should not be able to design a microprocessor and OS. Even the massively-resourced Chinese don't have these two of their own.

I have been designing a processor for some years. Also, one Pakistani PDF member has taken the initiative of creating a team to design a Pakistani OS. This is the FB page.

I can`t help notice that you are obsessed with independent OS & new instruction sets/CPU. I understand these are important for certain kind of industries like defense, nuclear energy & industries of that kind, but for everything else like a web based industry , isn't it be better to grow on the existing platforms and make a profitable business from it. Those thing you have been harping on should be merely considered as a tools imho not an end in itself and it requires massive industrial level effort and support from govt. currently we are not capable of.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I can`t help notice that you are obsessed with independent OS & new instruction sets/CPU.

I don't want to get side-tracked but with a language like Ada, you don't NEED another OS. Or new instruction sets. It was meant for making VERY small executables, perfect for systems, especially aerospace.

massive industrial level effort and support from govt. currently we are not capable of.

No, no, no. I've seen these being done; by WIPRO, by ISRO, I think by NAL as well. But they weren't really needed, so they never really 'caught'.

for everything else like a web based industry , isn't it be better to grow on the existing platforms and make a profitable business from it.

That's where general industry is, but the gravy is in embedded and real-time (hard real-time) embedded. The trouble is getting security clearances to work on those projects. I cracked it but too late; I left working a year or two later, for family reasons.

 

[swnjo]

No, no, no. I've seen these being done; by WIPRO, by ISRO, I think by NAL as well. But they weren't really needed, so they never really 'caught'.
That's where general industry is, but the gravy is in embedded and real-time (hard real-time) embedded. The trouble is getting security clearances to work on those projects. I cracked it but too late; I left working a year or two later, for family reasons.

uh ok. I didn't know we have come this far. As an non-engineering/IT person my understanding of Indian IT industrial capability is very limited. But i still think that our best bet is to try get employment for huge IT population of all level of compatibility, which can be achieved by best use of existing platforms.

I wonder how far Pakistan have developed in this field and what's the scene over there. Do they care as much as @jamahir to develop core IT/computing platforms

 

[Joe Shearer]

But i still think that our best bet is to try get employment for huge IT population of all level of compatibility, which can be achieved by best use of existing platforms.

Oh, I agree. You can't employ large teams in those specialised areas. In fact, the strategy for that (special areas) has to be what I call the twin-anchor strategy, and preferably with a full-scope but limited size on-site team as well.

wonder how far Pakistan have developed in this field and what's the scene over there. Do they care as much as @jamahir to develop core IT/computing platforms

I would be hugely surprised if they were as far ahead as we are/were.

For PSLV, we programmed the mission computer: eight micro-processors conferring with each other, talking in Ada. To do that, you need a PSLV, and you need an ISRO.

For Tejas, we did (ADA did) the flight control system. You need to do those internals before you get anywhere serious.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Do what?

The Indian industry famously grew because the Government did not suspect that we were an industry, and ignored us, so we built something, taking full advantage of the Y2K scare, and then let the babus into the secret.

Yes, some of them did help. L. K. Jha was actually the father of Indian IT, and not the names that are tossed around.

"Second, the IT industry needs to identify and communicate the necessary learning requirements and missing skills, including soft skills."

This is the job of the HEC, not the IT Ministry

 

[Bil]

If one opts IT as professional carrier then that person must instill these qualities -

1) Solid understand of a programming language
2) Adequate understanding of chosen language framework and platform
3) Database understand and ability to work

Fill in the missing piece's:

Above 3 you can learn from school, however, what school wouldn't be able to teach is,

1) Critical thinking
2) Understand the requirement(s)
3) Grasp existing solution and make new changes as per requirement/design

I have been working for IT firms since 2009. Started as developer and currently working not only as Dev team lead but also as Solution Designer. And being a designer is much more challenging then a programmer - saying this with experience. Yes, the following attributes are utterly vital, no question

• Inability to code in contemporary technology platforms,
• Weak English skills,
• Poor comprehension readiness to address foreign clients’ concerns,
• Inadequate soft skills, namely communication and teamwork,
• Poor knowledge of corporate culture, e.g. reporting, compliance, escalations, email etiquette, and protocols.

However, critical thinking, requirement understanding and understanding as-is and to-be design is what you need to be successful on various projects and this is what any employer would expect from you.

I have worked with many Pakistani's, Indian's and other south asian folks, beside communication issues (which Chinese also do, actually they struggle the most due to language barrier), their biggest challenge is what I elaborated earlier.

That said, the indent of any developer should be:

A) Understand the framework well enough, because there are many features, which it offers, therefore you wouldn't have to write the code for it, which I also call - "you dont need to re-invent the wheel again"
B) Understand your requirement, its a must - many developers (even senior's at times) struggles with it. Because if you dont understand that requirement and start moving in a wrong direction then you are officially screwed and in corporate world, you wouldn't get many changes (sometime you only get 2 changes).
C) Critical thing and learn how to prioritize your tasks

Now coming on job market. Its incredibly challenging to find your first job, because employers are looking for candidates with experience, so what are your choices?

A) Opt a program which offers internship - this helps a lot, speaking from personal experience
B) Freelancing
C) Be ready to spend some hours as volunteer

Take a different approach:

Last but not the least, almost all the school use Java, C++, C##, Microsoft or other free available languages throughout their programs.

What does this means? OP mentioned that

Pakistan’s universities produce around 25,000 IT graduates but merely 5,000 get employed at leading local IT companies

Beside being irrelevant or outdated education, another aspect is supply and demand. There are only X number of Java, C##, C++, .Net and Web developer are needed. Therefore, people should try to think out of the box as well - and what is this out of the box approach? Opt for ERP system. There are many ERP system which seems intimidating (at times they're), however, this is something not every second person is doing. Therefore, in my book, its totally worth it to do investment on ERP and many renowned corporate houses have implemented ERP system even in Pakistan.