One Indonesian who insulted Palestine catched by Indonesian police with possible 6 years in prison as punishment

[Trango Towers]

Charged him with what? Is it a crime to support Israel?

Yes its a crime to support a criminal

In prison he will be raped for sure

 

[Menthol]

I think this is too far.

What a drama of life.


To be honest Israel and Palestine conflict is a worldly conflict, it has nothing to do with religion.

If people are actually listening to what God has told us, which is love, compassion, kindness, friendship, forgiveness, etc.

This conflict will never exist in the first place, everyone will live in harmony, peace, and prosperity.

I don't think everyone doesn't understand this very simple logic.


It's because people went away from God, all the horror during the End Times happened, including this.

It's not because of God, but ourselves.

 

[antonius123]

Be careful with political jargon. "Apartheid" is a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race conducted by a government toward their own citizen. For example is what happened in south Africa.

Israel building wall is not for a segregation/discrimination toward their citizen, but toward Israel citizen vs Palestine citizen, hence not suitable to be called "apartheid".

@Whizzack

 

[Leishangthem]

democracy? freedom of speech?

 

[Whizzack]

Charged him with what? Is it a crime to support Israel?

This is ridiculous. Instead of doing something for Palestine they take away the right of a person to support Israel. Two wrongs don't make a wright.

Apparently it's bad when a citizen supports Israel. But when the government offers nothing tangible to the Palestinian cause due to fears of the Israeli and US responses, that's fine.

LOL Is this a joke?

Our government and police are doing stupid thing..

Insulting someone thousands of miles away is 6 years of prison! That place is not better than Palestine itself. Also, it should be 'caught' not 'catched'.

democracy? freedom of speech?

Supporting Israel is not a crime.. there's no law against supporting Israel... Actually there already local articles in support of Israel... however mocking/insulting/defaming a person/body/institution/race/religion/ethnicity/etc in the public sphere in the internet is against the law... which is exactly what this guy is doing... He is not supporting Israel, he is just insulting Palestine and the Palestinian people publicly.. which is already a sensitive matter in Indonesia especially with regards to current events...

Had this guy made a proper video on why he supports Israel instead of insulting Palestine, there would be no legal issues for him.. of course how the Indonesian public would react to his video is a different matter, he can expect some backlash etc, especially from Palestine supporters.. but there would have been no legal repercussions for him...

I suspect he ran afoul of on parts of the following law

LAW OF THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA
No. 11 OF 2008
CONCERNING
ELECTRONIC INFORMATION AND TRANSACTIONS
BY THE GRACE OF ALMIGHTY GOD
THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA,

CHAPTER VII
PROHIBITED ACTS

​

Article 27
(1) Any Person who knowingly and without authority distributes and/or transmits and/or causes to be accessible Electronic Information and/or Electronic Documents with contents against propriety.

(2) Any Person who knowingly and without authority distributes and/or transmits and/or causes to be accessible Electronic Information and/or Electronic Documents with contents of gambling.

(3) Any Person who knowingly and without authority distributes and/or transmits and/or causes to be accessible Electronic Information and/or Electronic Documents with contents of affronts and/or defamation.

(4) Any Person who knowingly and without authority distributes and/or transmits and/or causes to be accessible Electronic Information and/or Electronic Documents with contents of extortion and/or threats.

Article 28
(1) Any Person who knowingly and without authority disseminates false and misleading information resulting in consumer loss in Electronic Transactions.

(2) Any Person who knowingly and without authority disseminates information aimed at inflicting hatred or dissension on individuals and/or certain groups of community based on ethnic groups, religions, races, and inter-groups (SARA).

Article 29
Any Person who knowingly and without authority sends Electronic Information and/or Electronic Documents that contain violence threats or scares aimed personally.

 

[Whizzack]

Be careful with political jargon. "Apartheid" is a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race conducted by a government toward their own citizen. For example is what happened in south Africa.

Israel building wall is not for a segregation/discrimination toward their citizen, but toward Israel citizen vs Palestine citizen, hence not suitable to be called "apartheid".

@Whizzack

Then what would you call it...? Even a lot of international media are calling it apartheid...
Semantics aside, Israeli repressions and abuse of the Palestinian people are fact...

 

[antonius123]

Then what would you call it...? Even a lot of international media are calling it apartheid...

But it is still not suitable; most of the media use it are from countries who support Palestine.
Call it "barrier" if you ask me.

Semantics aside, Israeli repressions and abuse of the Palestinian people are fact...

It is war; the war that Palestine wants. In the war your enemy will trying to decimate you as much as possible, and you should not complain.

What Israel supposed to do when their enemy has intention to destroy them? Sitting idle and let Hamas/Palestine keep attacking them with rockets etc?

In fact many country still support Israel's action.

 

[Whizzack]

But it is still not suitable; most of the media use it are from countries who support Palestine.
Call it "barrier" if you ask me.

Huh..? Apartheid is a policy, not a wall.. it's a policy of discrimination, injustice and segregation.. don't tell me that u don't even understand the difference between a physical wall / barrier and a policy..? fine don't call it apartheid.. just call it genocide then...

It is war; the war that Palestine wants. In the war your enemy will trying to decimate you as much as possible, and you should not complain.

Palestine wants liberation... Israel wants war and occupation.. genocide is an illegal act... otherwise why would they still complain about the holocaust?

What Israel supposed to do when their enemy has intention to destroy them? Sitting idle and let Hamas/Palestine keep attacking them with rockets etc?

Lol.. how the heck can Hamas can destroy mighty Israel with crude homemade rockets when IDF has the most advanced weaponry in the world..?? So what to do..? Simple.. Israel just needs to implement the two state solution.. imprisoning the Palestinians inside walled ghettoes forever will bring peace to no one..

In fact many country still support Israel's action.

There are about 180+ countries in the world.. 20+ countries supporting Israel is not "many".. especially for a so-called free and democratic country..

 

[nufix]

This is dumb. People should be free to choose which side to support. Last time i check Indonesia is not at war with Israel nor is it with Palestine.

 

[antonius123]

Huh..? Apartheid is a policy, not a wall.. it's a policy of discrimination, injustice and segregation.. don't tell me that u don't even understand the difference between a physical wall / barrier and a policy..? fine don't call it apartheid.. just call it genocide then...

Who said apartheid is a wall?

You are glorifying "apartheid" by saying the policy of separation/barrier/wall/whatever you want to call - in order to separate "their citizen" with "citizen of their enemy" for their security purpose as apartheid. You are also glorifying "genocide" by saying the barrier as genocide, because they are not killing.

The Israeli West Bank barrier or wall or fence is a separation barrier in the West Bank or along the Green Line. The barrier is a contentious element of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Israel describes the wall as a necessary security barrier against terrorism;

Israeli West Bank barrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Their intention to build the barrier is to secure themself against terrorism. They had experience so many attack from intifada etc before.

Palestine wants liberation... Israel wants war and occupation.. genocide is an illegal act... otherwise why would they still complain about the holocaust?

They already have been independent and liberated, although still many country do not recognize Palestine state.

International recognition of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You can't call your enemy doing genocide just because your enemy is attacking you back for self defense.

Lol.. how the heck can Hamas can destroy mighty Israel with crude homemade rockets when IDF has the most advanced weaponry in the world..?? So what to do..? Simple.. Israel just needs to implement the two state solution.. imprisoning the Palestinians inside walled ghettoes forever will bring peace to no one..

By playing victim, they try to attract international sympathy.

Dont say Israel reject 2 state solution, in fact it was UN and Israel that offer 2 state solution then rejected by Palestine, because wiping out Israel from middle east is Palestine & Arab purpose and ideal.

Since you don't know, they are already in 2 state; Israel gave back gaza strip to Palestine and PAlestine declare independence in 1988. Read history.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are about 180+ countries in the world.. 20+ countries supporting Israel is not "many".. especially for a so-called free and democratic country..

So are you saying that the 20 countries are savage?

I dont know how many countries supporting Hamas, I dont think your claim there are 180 countries supporting Hamas is correct.

But the fact that there are only 138 countries recognizing Palestinian state, while there are 164 countries recognizing Israel.

As of 31 July 2019, 138 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states and two non-member states have recognised Palestine State (Israel is recognized by 164).

International recognition of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Maarkhoor]

Charged him with what? Is it a crime to support Israel?

Yes.....Murder should be condemned not praised or supported.

In prison he will be raped for sure

Tu Pathan hai

 

[antonius123]

Yes.....Murder should be condemned not praised or supported.

If that is the case, both should be condemned, not praised or supported.

Menohok! Yusuf Muhammad Bandingkan Konsekuensi Hina Israel dan Hina Palestina

Pegiat media sosial, Yusuf Muhammad membandingkan konsekuensi yang kontras bagi orang yang menghina Israel dan orang yang menghina Palestina di Indonesia. Menurut Yusuf Muhammad,

makassar.terkini.id

 

[Whizzack]

Who said apartheid is a wall?

You are glorifying "apartheid" by saying the policy of separation/barrier/wall/whatever you want to call - in order to separate "their citizen" with "citizen of their enemy" for their security purpose as apartheid. You are also glorifying "genocide" by saying the barrier as genocide, because they are not killing.

The Israeli West Bank barrier or wall or fence is a separation barrier in the West Bank or along the Green Line. The barrier is a contentious element of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Israel describes the wall as a necessary security barrier against terrorism;

Lol.. You did... I didn't even mention any damn wall before that.. you are the one that's suddenly equating apartheid policy with building walls..

So let's start again... Apartheid is a policy, a criminal public policy... it doesn't matter if there are walls or not... walls are not the main point of concern here... hell.. walls are probably the least of our concerns in an apartheid policy.. if your only understanding of apartheid = separation of citizens by means of a wall or any other physical barrier, then please expand your understanding by reading the definition of apartheid here :

International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid,
Article II

[1][2]
For the purpose of the present Convention, the term 'the crime of apartheid', which shall include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practiced in southern Africa, shall apply to the following inhumane acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them:

1. Denial to a member or members of a racial group or groups of the right to life and libertyof person
   1. By murder of members of a racial group or groups;
   2. By the infliction upon the members of a racial group or groups of serious bodily or mental harm, by the infringement of their freedom or dignity, or by subjecting them to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;
   3. By arbitrary arrest and illegal imprisonment of the members of a racial group or groups;
2. Deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part;
3. Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognized trade unions, the right to education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;
4. Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;
5. Exploitation of the labour of the members of a racial group or groups, in particular by submitting them to forced labour;
6. Persecution of organizations and persons, by depriving them of fundamental rights and freedoms, because they oppose apartheid.

They already have been independent and liberated, although still many country do not recognize Palestine state.

International recognition of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Palestine have only partial recognition as a sovereign state.. and it is definitely not free or independent.. If it's free then kindly educate us on the extent of its sovereign territory and boundaries..? what's it capital city...? does it have an airport or seaport to which they can conduct trade freely..? does it have a national currency and a central bank..? Is people free to travel in, out and within its territory...? Is it a UN member..?

At best the Palestine of today is as free as France in WW2 under German occupation... Anything going to Palestine has to be approved by Israel first...

You can't call your enemy doing genocide just because your enemy is attacking you back for self defense.

Of course we can... the act of genocide has nothing to do with whether the enemy is fighting you or not.. please educate your self on the definition of genocide first...

By playing victim, they try to attract international sympathy.

They are not playing... most of the world today has sympathy because we can easily see all the atrocities done by Israel against Palestine live on TV and internet... Do you think we are all living under a rock or something..?

So are you saying that the 20 countries are savage?

No I don't.. you did.. where did I say that 20 countries = savage..? I'm just saying that 20+ countries supporting Israel is not "many", its few actually... especially for a so called free and democratic country..

I dont know how many countries supporting Hamas, I dont think your claim there are 180 countries supporting Hamas is correct.

Again you are imagining things.. where the heck did I say 180+ is supporting Hamas..? I said out of 180+
(turns out it's 193) countries in the world.. only 20+ countries are supporting Israel at this moment.. which is few... If what Israel doing today is right and justified, then all 193 countries will be supporting Israel instead of just some 20 something countries..

But the fact that there are only 138 countries recognizing Palestinian state, while there are 164 countries recognizing Israel.

As of 31 July 2019, 138 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states and two non-member states have recognised Palestine State (Israel is recognized by 164).

Recognition doesn't imply unlimited support for a particular country... countries can still condemn the criminal policies of other countries...

This is dumb. People should be free to choose which side to support. Last time i check Indonesia is not at war with Israel nor is it with Palestine.

People are free to support anyone they want... People are however not free to insult/mock/defame others publicly on the internet... at least not according to the laws of our country...

 

[nufix]

Lol.. You did... I didn't even mention any damn wall before that.. you are the one that's suddenly equating apartheid policy with building walls..

So let's start again... Apartheid is a policy, a criminal public policy... it doesn't matter if there are walls or not... walls are not the main point of concern here... hell.. walls are probably the least of our concerns in an apartheid policy.. if your only understanding of apartheid = separation of citizens by means of a wall or any other physical barrier, then please expand your understanding by reading the definition of apartheid here :






Palestine have only partial recognition as a sovereign state.. and it is definitely not free or independent.. If it's free then kindly educate us on the extent of its sovereign territory and boundaries..? what's it capital city...? does it have an airport or seaport to which they can conduct trade freely..? does it have a national currency and a central bank..? Is people free to travel in, out and within its territory...? Is it a UN member..?

At best the Palestine of today is as free as France in WW2 under German occupation... Anything going to Palestine has to be approved by Israel first...


Of course we can... the act of genocide has nothing to do with whether the enemy is fighting you or not.. please educate your self on the definition of genocide first...


They are not playing... most of the world today has sympathy because we can easily see all the atrocities done by Israel against Palestine live on TV and internet... Do you think we are all living under a rock or something..?



No I don't.. you did.. where did I say that 20 countries = savage..? I'm just saying that 20+ countries supporting Israel is not "many", its few actually... especially for a so called free and democratic country..



Again you are imagining things.. where the heck did I say 180+ is supporting Hamas..? I said out of 180+
(turns out it's 193) countries in the world.. only 20+ countries are supporting Israel at this moment.. which is few... If what Israel doing today is right and justified, then all 193 countries will be supporting Israel instead of just some 20 something countries..



Recognition doesn't imply unlimited support for a particular country... countries can still condemn the criminal policies of other countries...



People are free to support anyone they want... People are however not free to insult/mock/defame others publicly on the internet... at least not according to the laws of our country...

Agree, so lets see if those who publicly mock Israel gets the same treatment. Disclaimer, I dont support Israel. My criticism is on the fact that prosecuting this case is dumb. Who is pressing the charges? Palestinian? If so, are they pressing charge in Indonesian and Palestinian court? Is Palestine a recognized country at all that allows for diplomatic pressure to prosecute a foreigner in foreign courts? See how dumb this is?

 

[antonius123]

Lol.. You did... I didn't even mention any damn wall before that.. you are the one that's suddenly equating apartheid policy with building walls..

So let's start again... Apartheid is a policy, a criminal public policy... it doesn't matter if there are walls or not... walls are not the main point of concern here... hell.. walls are probably the least of our concerns in an apartheid policy.. if your only understanding of apartheid = separation of citizens by means of a wall or any other physical barrier, then please expand your understanding by reading the definition of apartheid here :

I never said Apartheid is a wall, you obviously has missunderstood what I said. See again my post #18 above.

LOL. You missunderstand again with your article. See the context of your article, it is talking about how South African treat their citizen with segregation of race.

What Israel do is not a segregation based on race on their own citizen, but segregation between their citizen and non citizen. I have explained this for the second time to you, please read carefully.

Palestine have only partial recognition as a sovereign state.. and it is definitely not free or independent.. If it's free then kindly educate us on the extent of its sovereign territory and boundaries..? what's it capital city...? does it have an airport or seaport to which they can conduct trade freely..? does it have a national currency and a central bank..? Is people free to travel in, out and within its territory...? Is it a UN member..?

At best the Palestine of today is as free as France in WW2 under German occupation... Anything going to Palestine has to be approved by Israel first...

What you said is illogical. All you mention above if lacky, is not Israel fault.

International recognition is a freedom of each nations, Israel can't hinder each nation to recognize Palestine.

Palestine doesnt have this and that is their own fault, not other country or Israel fault. Palestine refuse peace agreement with Israel and focus on war instead of building their own nations. If Palestine focus on development and accept piece with Israel, they could spend their energy for the development, and international financial aids including from US will flow for the development.

Of course we can... the act of genocide has nothing to do with whether the enemy is fighting you or not.. please educate your self on the definition of genocide first...

I dont understand what kind of education you have.

This is the genocide definition from Oxford:

There is no killing of large number of people happen or intended by Israel with the barrier they built.
There is no evidence Israel has killed large number of Palestinian people deliberately with aim of destroying Palestine, of course of Palestine people (under Intifada or Hamas) attack Israel, you can't blame Israel for destroying/killing them.

This is definition from UN:
The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group. Victims have to be deliberately, not randomly, targeted because of their real or perceived membership of one of the four groups outlined in the above definition.[4][5][6][7]

Genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unless you can prove it, accusing Israel's building barrier as genocide is crazy, and the accuser maybe only from Palestine side, not supported by UN.

They are not playing... most of the world today has sympathy because we can easily see all the atrocities done by Israel against Palestine live on TV and internet... Do you think we are all living under a rock or something..?

These all are from video made by Palestine side (called Pallywood), not from reliable/solid evidence. I have seen many video with subjective narations from them, like a video narrated as if Israel soldier prevented a Palestine man to be brought with ambulance, but the fact: we dont know why the soldier do that, perhaps the guy is Hamas fighter. Same like Hamas naration that Israel attack Al Aqsa, while other source said that Hamas was attacking Israel troops then hide in Al Aqsa.

This is called "Pallywood", which is aimed to get public/international sympathy, by media manipulation and distortion of information.

Pallywood, a portmanteau of "Palestinian" and "Hollywood", is a coinage used to describe supposed media manipulation, distortion or fraud by some Palestinians putatively designed to win the public relations war with Israel.

Pallywood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The reason why Palestine tolls is much higher, because of Hamas human shield and Hamas fighting style by hiding behind civilian facilities (mosque, hospital, school, apartments, etc) and mingle with civil; that make fatalities high with Palestinian side, and Hamas make propaganda that Israel doing atrocities, then ppl like you believe it!

UN report outlines how Hamas used kids as human shields

The headlines in most places were entirely predictable: “UN Says Israel Killed 44 Palestinians in Schools During Gaza War.” That was indeed one finding of a UN report published Monday — but only pa…

nypost.com

I dont say there is no atrocities done by Israel at all, but what Israel do most are self defence while Hamas is the agrgessor.

No I don't.. you did.. where did I say that 20 countries = savage..? I'm just saying that 20+ countries supporting Israel is not "many", its few actually... especially for a so called free and democratic country..

LOL. Dont twisted my word,

Of course I say the opposite, that the 20 countries are making sense by supporting Israel attack on Hamas, rather than being savaged.

Why do you think those 24 countries supporting Israel?

Again you are imagining things.. where the heck did I say 180+ is supporting Hamas..? I said out of 180+
(turns out it's 193) countries in the world.. only 20+ countries are supporting Israel at this moment.. which is few... If what Israel doing today is right and justified, then all 193 countries will be supporting Israel instead of just some 20 something countries..

OK. While Israel attacking Hamas get support from more than 20 countries, how many countries support Hamaz?

Recognition doesn't imply unlimited support for a particular country... countries can still condemn the criminal policies of other countries...

OK, how many countries condemning Israel for attacking back Hamas?