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On hunt for naval ‘Trojan horses’, Parrikar heads to South Korea

Juggernautjatt

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Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, April 14

With India looking at getting more specialised amphibious assault ships, also called Landing Platform Docks (LPD) in naval parlance, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar today began a four-day visit to South Korea, the world biggest ship maker and a possible partner in the project.

New Delhi wants to indigenously build four such warships, which will be the biggest-ever made in the country other than the under-construction 40,000-tonne sea-borne aircraft carrier INS Vikrant.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) had re-issued a request for proposal (RFP) to Indian private sector shipyards in September last year. Each of these will approximately cost Rs 6,000 crore and are expected to be delivered over the next 10 years. Each of these ships will be between 35,000 and 40,000 tonnes. Indian shipyards have been asked to locate their own foreign collaborator. “The bids have come in,” sources said. The RFP was sent to ABG, Larsen & Toubro (L&T), and Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering, the last one being recently purchased by Anil Ambani.

Foreign shipbuilders offering such ships include DCNS of France, Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Fincantieri of Italy, South Korea’s Hanjin Heavy Industries & Constructions Co and Navantia of Spain.

India has sought a vessel of 213m with endurance at sea for 45 days. The vessel must be able to house combat vehicles (including main battle tanks, infantry combat vehicles and heavy trucks on one or more vehicle deck) and the vessel should be able to undertake all-weather operations involving heavy lift helicopters up to 35 tonnes.

Yesterday, Parrikar said, “Talks will include wide-ranging subjects including collaborations in defence products”. Capabilities of that country are known, he said. South Korea makes some 30 per cent of all ships worldwide.

The successful private shipyard and its foreign collaborator will be given the order for two such ships and the two others will be made by the MoD-owned Hindustan Shipyard Limited, Visakhapatnam, at the same price being paid to the private builder.

Parrikar clearly said yesterday that a government-to-government deal is the best in case of certain defence technologies. An LPD is essentially a modern-day sea-based version of the Roman epic “Trojan horse”. Each carries, in its huge lower deck, hundreds of troops with tanks, vehicles and cargo. Such a ship can deliver men and equipment near a sea beach and does not need a berthing dock, hence providing the option for landing thousands of troops near a spot chosen to attack.

On hunt for naval ‘Trojan horses’, Parrikar heads to South Korea
 
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Are IN and IA are planning joint operations like D-day landings coupled with paratroopers inserted behind enemy lines?


That is one of the best ways that Beachhead landings can be carried out. But much less of the massed para-drops of Op. Overlord; thanks to Helos which will insert the advance troops; rapidly and more stealthily.

That kind of Ops are being regularly exercised.
 
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That is one of the best ways that Beachhead landings can be carried out. But much less of the massed para-drops of Op. Overlord; thanks to Helos which will insert the advance troops; rapidly and more stealthily.

That kind of Ops are being regularly exercised.
Which type ship India is expecting from Korea? Dokdo class or any other ?
 
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Which type ship India is expecting from Korea? Dokdo class or any other ?


Going by all the info available in the public domain; the Dokdo Class is the only suitable ship in S.Korea's Navy for consideration; with the proviso that it will need re-design for the IN. She is primarily a LPH while the IN's RFI was for primarily a LPD. Apart from size.

But with modular designs, re-design is quite easy.
 
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So one thing is for sure . @Dillinger Your view on this ? Don't you think we are looking at 35-40 K T rather than 27000 T ? And Weather deck to have options to operate heavy lift helicopters . So F35 might come in handy if we wanted . . .

And make no mistake Mr.Parrikar might sign G2G contract with South Koreans . As french are yet to sort out their Russian delivery which would expire in 2 months as per contract . So our orders to French might upset Russians. And ManPar already hailing Massive shipbuilding capacity of SK. So we might go for it ?
 
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Going by all the info available in the public domain; the Dokdo Class is the only suitable ship in S.Korea's Navy for consideration; with the proviso that it will need re-design for the IN. She is primarily a LPH while the IN's RFI was for primarily a LPD. Apart from size.

But with modular designs, re-design is quite easy.

is there any possibility that a completely new design is being considered...??? i mean apart from dokdo.... as korea has experience in shipbuilding they might be able to design a new class of ship....
 
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is there any possibility that a completely new design is being considered...??? i mean apart from dokdo.... as korea has experience in shipbuilding they might be able to design a new class of ship....

Yes of course; that is a possibility. South Koreans have a great amount of design experience. But will it be a radically new design or a purpose-built re-design of an existing design?

I'd guess the latter; since that is more economic.
 
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So one thing is for sure . @Dillinger Your view on this ? Don't you think we are looking at 35-40 K T rather than 27000 T ? And Weather deck to have options to operate heavy lift helicopters . So F35 might come in handy if we wanted . . .

And make no mistake Mr.Parrikar might sign G2G contract with South Koreans . As french are yet to sort out their Russian delivery which would expire in 2 months as per contract . So our orders to French might upset Russians. And ManPar already hailing Massive shipbuilding capacity of SK. So we might go for it ?

I told you, this is media bungling up the figures. There is only one country which operates ships of that size for this specific purpose (marine). How odd then that the article mentions a prospective design weighing in at 35-40,000 tons but lists shipbuilders (DCNS of France, Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Fincantieri of Italy, South Korea’s Hanjin Heavy Industries & Constructions Co and Navantia of Spain) which have never built a LHD/LPD of that size nor have any such prospective designs which they have ever mentioned or showcased. If the IN desired a 40,000 ton ship then the candidate would be narrowed down to the Wasp LHD (Northrop Grumman Ship Systems).

Let us assume that we sign a contract with Hanjin, then what? Will the Koreans design a brand new, clean sheet design for us to match the displacement (35-40,000 tons)? How economical will that be, and what will be the added costs? Specially when the one company which can actually deliver the product is not even in the running. More importantly if the RFI had listed such parameters why on god's green earth has Northrop abstained from the tender? Of course, it would be too much to expect these folks to actually read the openly available details of the tender which specifically list out parameters dealing with displacement, draft and fitments.

Furthermore, an all weather deck does not translate to operating fixed wing combatants from these ships. Had any of these scribes bothered to listen to the numerous presentations given by serving and ex naval personnel as to exactly why the IN needs such platforms they would have understood, or at least been able to take an educated guess at, what the IN wants.
 
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I told you, this is media bungling up the figures. There is only one country which operates ships of that size for this specific purpose (marine). How odd then that the article mentions a prospective design weighing in at 35-40,000 tons but lists shipbuilders (DCNS of France, Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Fincantieri of Italy, South Korea’s Hanjin Heavy Industries & Constructions Co and Navantia of Spain) which have never built a LHD/LPD of that size nor have any such prospective designs which they have ever mentioned or showcased. If the IN desired a 40,000 ton ship then the candidate would be narrowed down to the Wasp LHD (Northrop Grumman Ship Systems).

Let us assume that we sign a contract with Hanjin, then what? Will the Koreans design a brand new, clean sheet design for us to match the displacement (35-40,000 tons)? How economical will that be, and what will be the added costs? Specially when the one company which can actually deliver the product is not even in the running. More importantly if the RFI had listed such parameters why on god's green earth has Northrop abstained from the tender? Of course, it would be too much to expect these folks to actually read the openly available details of the tender which specifically list out parameters dealing with displacement, draft and fitments.

Haree bhaii ... There will be major modifications in ship design to meet IN requirements. 35-40 k T is not media perceptions but the requirements underlined by Indian Navy itself . And again you are worried about money . At the end of the day sufficient money will be allocated to meet certain requirements even if it's costly . We have money man . We are broke . As that what I can understand from ur comments :)

Americans deals are different altogether . It's more to do with ToT and other red tapes comes with it . If they are to build ships in India they have no other option to open up all the details about their designs . You seriously have problems with RFI s:p: For some reason you think it's just for fun . :fie:
 
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Haree bhaii ... There will be major modifications in ship design to meet IN requirements. 35-40 k T is not media perceptions but the requirements underlined by Indian Navy itself . And again you are worried about money . At the end of the day sufficient money will be allocated to meet certain requirements even if it's costly . We have money man . We are broke . As that what I can understand from ur comments :)
IN requirements (if taken on a strict point basis) only allows two ships above 21000 tons i.e. Mistral and Juan Carlos(or Canberra class).In my opinion IN should not go for more than 30000 ton as we do not have a huge marine contingent or even any amphibious assault ambitions.
 
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This should have been done long back. The deal comes in the back drop of South Korea visit by PM Modi next month. They should have planned the PM visit to Seoul either after US visit or straight after leaving Japan.

Koreans have been very keen to participate in Indian industries and invest in India's shipbuilding industries.

This was a much needed press towards that country.

Korea is a very open minded defence partner, much like the pre-NATO France.
 
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We need something of a mistrals class. With the shipbuilding experience & infrastructure at South koreas disposal I am sure they can pull it off. :)
 
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IN requirements (if taken on a strict point basis) only allows two ships above 21000 tons i.e. Mistral and Juan Carlos(or Canberra class).In my opinion IN should not go for more than 30000 ton as we do not have a huge marine contingent or even any amphibious assault ambitions.

That's not a point as of now. We already requested for 35-40 T LPD . So no use of debating it at this point . If it's huge let it be . There must be a plan already in place . That too now DM has gone with motive in getting G2G agreement again . Let's see. As far as I know all the article from the beginning mentioned the same when these requirements are not available abroad
 
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