Offtopic post from SS thread.

[Flintlock]

Scary. I wonder how many in the muslim world hold such views. I hope its not the majority.

Did you know the British killed 30mn Indians in the Late Victorian Holocaust? Did you know it was the British who occupied Palestine, and as if it was settler land, handed it over to the Israelis? Did you know it is the Americans who make sure that the Palestinians are kept on their reserves?

We Muslims need to be careful before making pleas for sympathy for non-Muslims, especially when they're roaming about killing our brothers and sisters. Did you know that the extermination of this entire world is a lighter matter to Allah SWT than the killing of a Muslim? Yes the loss of innocent life is bad, and must be avoided at all costs irrespective of who the victims are...but, let's call a spade a spade and simply chip fellow Muslims as lesser issues.

 

[A.Rahman]

Scary. I wonder how many in the muslim world hold such views. I hope its not the majority.

Of course its scary for you.

O Believers, do not take the Jews nor the Christians as your friends: they are one another's friends only. If anyone of you takes them as friends, surely he shall be counted among them; indeed Allah deprives the wrong-doers of His Guidance

 

[roadrunner]

This isn't really much to do with the thread anyway. But quotes like that can be found in every religious text, much worse in fact.

 

[Flintlock]

Of course its scary for you.

O Believers, do not take the Jews nor the Christians as your friends: they are one another's friends only. If anyone of you takes them as friends, surely he shall be counted among them; indeed Allah deprives the wrong-doers of His Guidance

So, does that mean that a muslim cannot be friends with Jews and Christians, let alone the people of non-Abrahmic religions?

 

[Vinod2070]

Of course its scary for you.

O Believers, do not take the Jews nor the Christians as your friends: they are one another's friends only. If anyone of you takes them as friends, surely he shall be counted among them; indeed Allah deprives the wrong-doers of His Guidance

Exactly the kind of verses that were quoted in the movie made in Holland about Islam recently (I am forgetting the name).

Many Muslims then talked of some sort of context, something in the preceding or succeeding posts that made even this verse a bit more palatable.

Guess, it was all a sham!

 

[A.Rahman]

So, does that mean that a muslim cannot be friends with Jews and Christians, let alone the people of non-Abrahmic religions?

Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir has mentioned that some scholars say that this ayah of Surah al-Ma'idah was revealed after the Battle of Uhad when Muslims had a set back.

At that time a Muslim from Madinah said, "I am going to live with Jews so I shall be safe in case another attack comes on Madinah."

And another person said, "I am going to live with Christians so I shall be safe in case another attack comes on Madinah."

So Allah revealed this ayah reminding the Believers that they should not seek the protection from others, but should protect each other.

 

[Quwa]

'Abd al Laah bin 'Amrin said that the Prophet (SLAWS) said:
"The extinction of the world is a lighter issue for Allah than the killing of a Muslim." [Tirmidhi, Nisaa'i, Ibn Majah, and others]
======================================

God created us and this world, and God can define the value of each and everything for us. Watch all the stupid movies you want, fact of the matter is we Muslims did not starve out 30mn Indians; we Muslims did not kill off 6mn Jews; we Muslims did not wipe out the Native-Aboriginal populations of the Americas...all that was done by the Western Colonialists whose descendents make the stupid movies you like quoting.

The only fear you're experiencing is the fear of a guilty criminal.

 

[A.Rahman]

'Abd al Laah bin 'Amrin said that the Prophet (SLAWS) said:
"The extinction of the world is a lighter issue for Allah than the killing of a Muslim." [Tirmidhi, Nisaa'i, Ibn Majah, and others]
======================================

God created us and this world, and God can define the value of each and everything for us. Watch all the stupid movies you want, fact of the matter is we Muslims did not starve out 30mn Indians; we Muslims did not kill off 6mn Jews; we Muslims did not wipe out the Native-Aboriginal populations of the Americas...all that was done by the Western Colonialists whose descendents make the stupid movies you like quoting.

Sadly enough,

No one is doing anything, while muslim are being killed by thousands.

Our own leaders have befriended these kaffirs are in the same bed, enjoying fine wine, flying in private jet, and enjoying the money they get to keep quiet.

What we need it Khalifah, which does not bows down to western interest at expense of Muslim blood.

Inshallah Khalifah would be revived once again

 

[Flintlock]

'Abd al Laah bin 'Amrin said that the Prophet (SLAWS) said:
"The extinction of the world is a lighter issue for Allah than the killing of a Muslim." [Tirmidhi, Nisaa'i, Ibn Majah, and others]
======================================

God created us and this world, and God can define the value of each and everything for us. Watch all the stupid movies you want, fact of the matter is we Muslims did not starve out 30mn Indians; we Muslims did not kill off 6mn Jews; we Muslims did not wipe out the Native-Aboriginal populations of the Americas...all that was done by the Western Colonialists whose descendents make the stupid movies you like quoting.

The only fear you're experiencing is the fear of a guilty criminal.

Am I the only one who is seeing the obvious logical disconnect here?

On one hand, you accuse others of wiping out populations (which is true btw)

On the other, you claim that the life of a single muslim is worth more than the entire world, which speaks of an attitude which is worse than the most racist, prejudiced regimes that have ever existed on the face of the earth.

And do spare a thought for the starving muslims in Pakistan.

 

[Flintlock]

Sadly enough,

No one is doing anything, while muslim are being killed by thousands.

Our own leaders have befriended these kaffirs are in the same bed, enjoying fine wine, flying in private jet, and enjoying the money they get to keep quiet.

Yet, somehow, the world is not getting wiped out.

 

[Bane Blade]

I swear just one good article so far and the more I read about history the more I realise that anyone who is given near absolute power has taken no less than ten minutes to start dictating terms and abusing them albeit Jewish, Muslims, Christians or Hindus examples can be taken from anywhere you want. History only has seen a handfull of successfull leaders.

The Muslim Waffen SS

Truth be told they existed flourished and died like any of Hitlers army but by using influence they were not exactly persecuted the way many of the SS were, the kind of tricks oil can do, hence I think that although it is unwise to retaliate It just goes to show that the jews aren't wise.



BOOK TITLES PLEASE TO ALL THE VERY FEW LADIES AND MOSTLY GENTLEMEN OF OUR FORUM

 

[Quwa]

Am I the only one who is seeing the obvious logical disconnect here?

On one hand, you accuse others of wiping out populations (which is true btw)

On the other, you claim that the life of a single muslim is worth more than the entire world, which speaks of an attitude which is worse than the most racist, prejudiced regimes that have ever existed on the face of the earth.

And do spare a thought for the starving muslims in Pakistan.

I don't claim anything, Islam says that the life of a single Muslim is worth more to God than the entire world. I can even give you the Arabic verification of those words. On the other end of the spectrum, in Islam; to kill an innocent is as heavy as killing all of humanity. Turns out even Islam places a greater value on a human being than the Indian, Western and all non-Islamic establishments combined.

BTW, there are no Islamic States in the world...i.e. states governed entirely by Shariah & led by a single unitary Caliphate. If the Caliphate went to war, it'd make sure that even dirt poor Indian civilians are not harmed due to the fighting - i.e. no collateral damage.

If the Caliphate were to begin ruling over even an entirely Hindu populated region, instead of sucking its resources dry and enslaving the people...it'll implement universal health and education. It will also raise the infrastructure to par AND make sure "every son of Adam" is given housing, clothing and food.

So yes, Islam is mercy for humanity.

 

[Flintlock]

I don't claim anything, Islam says that the life of a single Muslim is worth more to God than the entire world. I can even give you the Arabic verification of those words. On the other end of the spectrum, in Islam; to kill an innocent is as heavy as killing all of humanity. Turns out even Islam places a greater value on a human being than the Indian, Western and all non-Islamic establishments combined.

BTW, there are no Islamic States in the world...i.e. states governed entirely by Shariah & led by a single unitary Caliphate. If the Caliphate went to war, it'd make sure that even dirt poor Indian civilians are not harmed due to the fighting - i.e. no collateral damage.

If the Caliphate were to begin ruling over even an entirely Hindu populated region, instead of sucking its resources dry and enslaving the people...it'll implement universal health and education. It will also raise the infrastructure to par AND make sure "every son of Adam" is given housing, clothing and food.

So yes, Islam is mercy for humanity.

Tall claims indeed, and moreover, not supported by facts.

The Islamic conquest of India was among the bloodiest in history, and as much as you can make excuses by claiming that Tamerlane or Mehmud of Ghazni, Aurangzeb etc. were not "real muslims", it doesn't change the facts.

Bihar was ruled by muslims for around 600 years. I fail to see any benefits of muslim rule - infact, the parts of India which were ruled by Islamic rulers for the longest periods of time (UP, Bihar, MP), today have the worst statistics in India, while the states which remained relatively free from Islamic influence (HP, Kerala, TN, Karnataka) are doing much better.

Afghanistan was ruled by muslims too, and so was Pakistan. They are not paradise by a long shot. You can again make the excuse that the "real caliphate" was never created, but those are only excuses. Anyone can claim that the "perfect democracy" or the "perfect dictatorship" or the "perfect communist state" was never created and hence the problems exist.

The fact is that there is no such thing as "perfect caliphate" or "real Islamic state". It exists only in the minds of those who are unhappy with the current Islamic state.

On the other hand, it is this superiority complex of muslims that is causing more problems than it creates. It reminds me of the colonial mentality, which made the Europeans think that it was their duty to uplift the heathens by spreading Christianity and British values.
Such thinking has been dicredited all over the world, and to see it here is very shocking.

 

[Vinod2070]

I don't claim anything, Islam says that the life of a single Muslim is worth more to God than the entire world. I can even give you the Arabic verification of those words. On the other end of the spectrum, in Islam; to kill an innocent is as heavy as killing all of humanity. Turns out even Islam places a greater value on a human being than the Indian, Western and all non-Islamic establishments combined.

BTW, there are no Islamic States in the world...i.e. states governed entirely by Shariah & led by a single unitary Caliphate. If the Caliphate went to war, it'd make sure that even dirt poor Indian civilians are not harmed due to the fighting - i.e. no collateral damage.

If the Caliphate were to begin ruling over even an entirely Hindu populated region, instead of sucking its resources dry and enslaving the people...it'll implement universal health and education. It will also raise the infrastructure to par AND make sure "every son of Adam" is given housing, clothing and food.

So yes, Islam is mercy for humanity.

Perfect fuel to the like of Ali Sina and that Dutch film maker!

I see why some people say that the problem in not with Muslims.

The facts on the ground at all times (including the time of the prophet) are completely opposite to the utopia you are painting here. War booty was always the main motives for early Arab Muslims to go to war. Ransom taking for hostages of war was common and encouraged. One even hears of a zombie pointing out his own brother for the biggest ransom.

Rapes of women captured is again captured in the Hadhiths themselves with the Arabs asking the prophet if they can do "coitus interruptus" to avoid making the women pregnant and thus reducing the ransom amount!

Very convenient to say that no state in Islamic so you avoid having to defend anything that is currently happening in the Islamic world and that gives a complete lie to the Utopian world of your dreams. The Taliban came closest to the Islamic rule in modern times and one has seen what that means. The segregated women hospitals didn't have anesthetics there as the women are supposed to bear pain! That is if they were lucky enough to get treatment in the first place.

Most were not so lucky! They died miserably as that was preferable to being treated by a male doctor.

Please show some results on the ground rather than lofty preachings. They fool no one, they should not fool you guys into believing any of this to be true too.

 

[qsaark]

The Islamic conquest of India was among the bloodiest in history, and as much as you can make excuses by claiming that Tamerlane or Mehmud of Ghazni, Aurangzeb etc. were not "real muslims", it doesn't change the facts.

The mentioned rulers did what everyone else was doing in their time. Muslim or no muslim is irrelevant.

Bihar was ruled by muslims for around 600 years. I fail to see any benefits of muslim rule - infact, the parts of India which were ruled by Islamic rulers for the longest periods of time (UP, Bihar, MP), today have the worst statistics in India, while the states which remained relatively free from Islamic influence (HP, Kerala, TN, Karnataka) are doing much better.

This is your opinion largely based on your observations post-british time. Post-1947, UP, Bihar or MP were not run by muslims, they were run by the majority party, so if you don't see any progress in these provinces as compared to the HP, Kerala, TN, Karnataka, put the blame on the post-47 politicians.

Afghanistan was ruled by muslims too, and so was Pakistan. They are not paradise by a long shot. You can again make the excuse that the "real caliphate" was never created, but those are only excuses. Anyone can claim that the "perfect democracy" or the "perfect dictatorship" or the "perfect communist state" was never created and hence the problems exist.

No place is a paradise, even US has its shortcomings. Blame goes to the people who rule, not to the religion they follow unless they are living their lives strictly according to whatever the releigion they follow, and this is not the case.

The fact is that there is no such thing as "perfect caliphate" or "real Islamic state". It exists only in the minds of those who are unhappy with the current Islamic state.

As far as Pakistan is concerned, except for the official name of the country "The Islamic Republic of Pakistan", there is nothing Islamic about the country. And yes, many think that this is a problem.

On the other hand, it is this superiority complex of muslims that is causing more problems than it creates. It reminds me of the colonial mentality, which made the Europeans think that it was their duty to uplift the heathens by spreading Christianity and British values.
Such thinking has been dicredited all over the world, and to see it here is very shocking.

This superiority complex exists every where. Muslims are no exception and hindus are not immune to it. And yes, this complex is causing more problems every where. Reliogion makes good people better and turn the bad people into worst. This is all about the very psychology of the human beings. Very few follow the religion, most only use it to cover their vicious interests.