Officially becoming a secular liberal person

[Hyde]

i have always supported a conservative islamic pakistan, but recent events and experiences in my life have changed my mind quite a bit. from here on i am official a liberal Pakistani and will always advocate for a secular democratic Pakistan.
i would like to apologize to some of the secular members on here for anything i might have said to them to make them mad or angry.

Sohbat ka asar hota hai. Almost 80-90% of the members on this forum are secular.

 

[saiyan0321]

jo secular bna woh tu chala gaya baki aik lambi discussion non topic shru hogaye.

 

[he-man]

Which point be that?

the point that subconciously it affects u when u start reading quran during childhood only.
and what do u read??

life and laws defined 1400 years ago....................and thats a problem

jo secular bna woh tu chala gaya baki aik lambi discussion non topic shru hogaye.

saala aag laga ke nikal gaya

 

[PlanetWarrior]

fair enough,who said india was a perfect state??

its a society in transition at least and thats what counts.
we are debating on the relevance of laws that were made 1400 years ago for ur information

Not criticizing India or any other nation. Simply pointing out that laws are inherently influenced by the morals and the religions of a society. Go back 1400 years ago and check why those laws were made. What were the moral beliefs of that society and which religion/s influenced that society. It is not disputed that Islam was influenced greatly by the Old Testament of the Christian bible and by Judaism

 

[Dubious]

the point that subconciously it affects u when u start reading quran during childhood only.
and what do u read??

life and laws defined 1400 years ago....................and thats a problem

subconsciously it effects us? Wow secular India teaches you to insult in details! Try reading the Quran then tell me if what you wrote makes even an ounce of sense!

Wonder if you say something similar to 2000 yr old Christianity or maybe even GOD KNOWS how old Hinduism?!

 

[he-man]

Not criticizing India or any other nation. Simply pointing out that laws are inherently influenced by the morals and the religions of a society. Go back 1400 years ago and check why those laws were made. What were the moral beliefs of that society and which religion/s influenced that society. It is not disputed that Islam was influenced greatly by the Old Testament of the Christian bible and by Judaism

the point i am making is those laws have no place today and still some people want sharia

 

[Multani]

I have met him a few times. The last being in 1999. So you may well be right brother. The struggle to plant Islam in North America with the unique context of that continent is bound to be difficult and even hap-hazard. In my experience, Muslim activism in North America had a strong JI / Ikhwan tinge. ISNA was more of a social club, while ICNA people (mostly JI related Pakistanis) were more action oriented. So, one can excuse a certain flavor as being a symptom or stage of evolution in a changing scenario.

I never said that Dr. Mukhtar Al Maghraoui was a Sufi. He had a good grasp of concepts, but if asked, he would not own Sufism as a strong part of his identity. His identity was that of a scholar / activist. However, I could sense the Sufi principles at work while I conversed with him a few times. I can not say that he was a Wahabi, I can not think of anything he said that could be attributed towards that.

I can not say of his opinion about Hazrat Imam Hasan Basri RA. But I am very surprised. Perhaps he is not convinced that Imam Hasan Basri RA actually met Hazrat Ali? One can understand a scholar refusing to take something as fact without supporting evidence. In any case, this is a side issue altogether and not one that determines whether or not one is a Wahabi.

In truth, North America requires a Sufi touch. So, Dr. sahib is right in his current direction.

ma sha Allah, you are very wise brother. Very sober, and understanding, with spiritual words. it is a breath of fresh air to see a member like you here on PDF. I have learned from your post above about adab. I haven't seen others like you here on PDF. You have an excellent grasp! ma sha Allah, my Pakistanis are full of gems! Its the spirituality of our elders and their dua.

Moreover, The situation for North America, that you have described is indeed that way. There are other emerging flavours endemic to North America, that have arisen but are a separate topic. This interplay is linked to the dichotomy between western secularism and Islamic ideals, the topic of this thread.

Dr Moklhtar and Dr Ninowy have spoken on these issues.

 

[Dubious]

the point i am making is those laws have no place today and still some people want sharia

The point I am making is the people crying the loudest dont even know the basics of Islam, Shariah or anything to do with this thread

 

[he-man]

subconsciously it effects us? Wow secular India teaches you to insult in details! Try reading the Quran then tell me if what you wrote makes even an ounce of sense!

Wonder if you say something similar to 2000 yr old Christianity or maybe even GOD KNOWS how old Hinduism?!

of course shit is there in christianity and hinduism too but u know where is the difference??

majority of people don't read those scriptures anymore and that was the whole point of my post genius

 

[SrNair]

Welcome to the club friend.

 

[he-man]

The point I am making is the people crying the loudest dont even know the basics of Islam, Shariah or anything to do with this thread

people know enough to say that its incompatible with today's standards and would never be implemented in an open society.

 

[Dubious]

of course shit is there in christianity and hinduism too but u know where is the difference??

majority of people don't read those scriptures anymore and that was the whole point of my post genius

Well they dont read and become atheist and then try to "convert" others to their new found faith! how is that different from the Mullah living in your back ally?

people know enough to say that its incompatible with today's standards and would never be implemented in an open society.

What you have posted so far shows you know zilch

If there was anything lower than zilch that is how much you know

 

[nana41]

i have always supported a conservative islamic pakistan, but recent events and experiences in my life have changed my mind quite a bit. from here on i am official a liberal Pakistani and will always advocate for a secular democratic Pakistan.
i would like to apologize to some of the secular members on here for anything i might have said to them to make them mad or angry.

For the benefits of ignorant and or ill advised like me,could you please inform us the DO's and DONT's of your newly adopted MASLAK .




Do not bother to answer,I just got it, on *9 per "aint...nigga".

 

[he-man]

Well they dont read and become atheist and then try to "convert" others to their new found faith! how is that different from the Mullah living in your back ally?

u want to compare an atheist like me to a mullah??
wow,some comparison

 

[PlanetWarrior]

the point i am making is those laws have no place today and still some people want sharia

The people who want Shariah are influenced by their personal moral fiber and their religious beliefs. You may find Shariah reprehensible (like the Hindu in India who finds the concept of consumption of beef reprehensible and thus illegal whilst the Christian or Muslim finds it acceptable or the American who finds the concept of an orgy on the street reprehensible and thus illegal whilst you find it acceptable) but the majority of the people of any state who adopts Shariah finds it a workable and acceptable system of governance which works for them. Who knows, in a few hundred years your descendants could be clamoring for Shariah in their state whilst those who adopted it now may find it reprehensible then. Time moves on and laws evolve with time.