Obama's AF-1 flightpath avoided flying over South China Sea

[Tiqiu]

At first you stressed on Air Force 1 hugged the coast and avoid flying over SCS
The second post, you said "clearly Air Force 1 flying avoiding some area" ( but still fly over SCS )
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They are contradiction. Why you don't state which one is wrong?

Jeez, I need to give up on you guys.
Mark Knoller wrote:notes AF-1 flightpath hugged the coast and avoided flying over South China Sea.
https://twitter.com/markknoller

Please don't ask me again who is Mark Knoller.

 

[BoQ77]

Jeez, I need to give up on you guys.
Mark Knoller wrote:notes AF-1 flightpath hugged the coast and avoided flying over South China Sea.
https://twitter.com/markknoller

Please don't ask me again who is Mark Knoller.

Don't tell me that guy know everything. He even thought the shallow water ( for example: entire of East China Sea ) as coasts.
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To ensure the safety for Air Force One, US suggest to create the joint-adaptive unit in Hanoi ATCC. Beside Vietnamese ATC staffs, US send personnels to Hanoi ATCC to support, monitor the air traffic control operations. Those personnels would not engage in flight control, but monitor and cooperate in provide the information of Air Force One, change of flight path, time ( if any ) to Vietnamese ATC staff.

Để đảm bảo an toàn tuyệt đối cho chuyên cơ của Tổng thống, phía Mỹ còn đề nghị thiết lập bộ phận điều phối hỗn hợp tại Đài không lưu Nội Bài. Bên cạnh các nhân viên không lưu dân dụng và quân sự của Việt Nam, phía Mỹ cử người lên Đài không lưu Nội Bài hỗ trợ, quan sát điều hành bay. Các nhân viên này có nghiệp vụ chuyên môn nhưng không tham gia điều hành bay, theo dõi và quản lý tần số vẫn là không lưu Việt Nam. Khi nhận được các thông tin thay đổi về hành trình của Air Force One, những nhân viên này sẽ thông báo cho không lưu Việt Nam để hỗ trợ điều hành.

 

[Tiqiu]

Don't tell me that guy know everything. He even thought the shallow water ( for example: entire of East China Sea ) as coasts.

So you want us making a pick between you and that guy? Emmmmm, it is really hard.

BTW, that guy is: an award-winning White House Correspondent for CBS News. He has reported for CBS Radio News, "Up To The Minute" and to the weekend editions of the "CBS Evening News" and "The Early Show"

During his career as a reporter, he has covered every President since Gerald Ford. Knoller came to CBS News in 1988 after 13 years as a correspondent with the Associated Press Radio Network, where he was on the front lines of national news coverage -- everything from Presidential campaigns and hurricanes to the death and funeral of Elvis Presley.
http://www.cbsnews.com/team/mark-knoller/

 

[BoQ77]

So you want us making a pick between you and that guy? Emmmmm, it is really hard.

It's really hard, because you can't even point out the contradiction between the tweet's words and the attached photo.

Focus on the photo, that's the real fact. Forget the words, they are wrong statement.

See my drawed line of flight path hugged the FIR Manila, FIR Ho Chi Minh and finally FIR Hanoi ( both considered as FIR Vietnam )

So AF-1 come from FIR Japan via FIR Philippines and enter FIR Vietnam when arrive, and reverse when leave for G-7 summit

Clearly, Air Force One avoided entering FIR Sanya, Hongkong ( FIR China ) @jhungary
I think US don't want to let Chinese staffs leading them during the visit to Vietnam

 

[Tiqiu]

It's really hard, because you can't even point out the contradiction between the tweet's words and the attached photo.

Focus on the photo, that's the real fact. Forget the words, they are wrong statement.

See my drawed line of flight path hugged the FIR Manila, FIR Ho Chi Minh and finally FIR Hanoi ( both considered as FIR Vietnam )

So AF-1 come from FIR Japan via FIR Philippines and enter FIR Vietnam when arrive, and reverse when leave for G-7 summit

Clearly, Air Force One avoided entering FIR Sanya, Hongkong ( FIR China ) @jhungary
I think US don't want to let Chinese staffs leading them during the visit to Vietnam
View attachment 307192

The only thing I need to point out is that Obama didn't fly directly over the Chinese island to demonstrate what he late envisaged in Japan -all the US wants in South China Sea is freedom of navigation, freedom of overflight and enforcement of intl rules & norms.

Mark Knoller tweeted because he was with Obama during the whole trip and reported at first hand by tweeting. He also made hundreds statements about Obama's Vietnam tour in his tweeter, shall I forget all his words?

Tell me which one of his words I should forget?
Mark Knoller ‏@markknoller May 24Presidential motorcade on the move in Ho Chi Minh City drawing plenty of onlooker interest.

Mark Knoller ‏@markknoller May 24Addressing Vietnamese about getting Congress to approve TPP, he said in the US, "politics isn't always -- what's the word? -- reasonable."

Mark Knoller ‏@markknoller May 23Sign of Pres Obama in Hanoi.

Mark Knoller ‏@markknoller May 23Pres Obama gets a look at Hanoi after dark. (That's WH Photog @petesouza next to him.)

 

[William Hung]

The only thing I need to point out is that Obama didn't fly directly over the Chinese island...

You have changed your words now. Read again your first post and the tweet that you quoted. The quoted tweet said the AF1 “avoided flying over the south china sea” which was contradictory to the AF1 flight path which did flew over the SCS. Isn’t that a contradiction like how we’ve said? Now you are trying to change the words to say AF1 avoided “flying directly over the Chinese islands...”

Even if we allow you to change your words, it still does not make sense. What makes you think AF1 was “clearly avoiding the islands”? To “avoid flying over the islands” would mean that the plane did not take a flightpath which would normally fly over the islands. BUT there aren’t any normal flightpath that flies over the Paracels or Spratly islands to go from Hanoi to Tokyo. So how did you get the idea that AF1 had “avoided the Islands”? So even if you have now changed your words to “avoid flying over the islands”, your argument still failed.

You can check this for yourself. Go to flightradar24.com and check the weekly flights from Hanoi to Tokyo. Search the flights of Japan airline (JAL) flying from Hanoi (HAN) to Narita Tokyo (NRT). You will see their usual flightpath flying in international airspace next to the Hainan coast and then to Japan, that is the shortest and most direct path to Japan which doesn’t even go over the Paracels/Spratly islands at all.

So it doesn’t make sense to say AF1 “avoided flying over the islands”. If anything, as others had already mentioned, AF1 actually flew down and went closer to the spratly islands and near the paracels, compared to the civilian flightpath of Japan airlines which flies much further away from the spratlys.

 

[Tiqiu]

You have changed your words now. Read again your first post and the tweet that you quoted. The quoted tweet said the AF1 “avoided flying over the south china sea” which was contradictory to the AF1 flight path which did flew over the SCS. Isn’t that a contradiction like how we’ve said? Now you are trying to change the words to say AF1 avoided “flying directly over the Chinese islands...”

Even if we allow you to change your words, it still does not make sense. What makes you think AF1 was “clearly avoiding the islands”? To “avoid flying over the islands” would mean that the plane did not take a flightpath which would normally fly over the islands. BUT there aren’t any normal flightpath that flies over the Paracels or Spratly islands to go from Hanoi to Tokyo. So how did you get the idea that AF1 had “avoided the Islands”? So even if you have now changed your words to “avoid flying over the islands”, your argument still failed.

You can check this for yourself. Go to flightradar24.com and check the weekly flights from Hanoi to Tokyo. Search the flights of Japan airline (JAL) flying from Hanoi (HAN) to Narita Tokyo (NRT). You will see their usual flightpath flying in international airspace next to the Hainan coast and then to Japan, that is the shortest and most direct path to Japan which doesn’t even go over the Paracels/Spratly islands at all.

So it doesn’t make sense to say AF1 “avoided flying over the islands”. If anything, as others had already mentioned, AF1 actually flew down and went closer to the spratly islands and near the paracels, compared to the civilian flightpath of Japan airlines which flies much further away from the spratlys.

Yes, do read my first post again.
The quoted tweet, the heading of the thread, is Mark Knoller's own words. My own words are:
Thanks to Obama for explaining the meaning of "Do as I say, not as I do" once again to the world.
The following two tweets are from Mark Knoller, who is the CBS White House Correspondent covering the Obama's tour.

So tell me what is wrong with what I said above?

 

[BoQ77]

So did he say "I'm on the way to challenge China excessive claim"? No.

As I remember, he said "I'm on the way to visit Vietnam for the first time"

and he feel free to do so, while still comply to aviation safety regulation by inform to ATC of FIR Japan, FIR Philippines, and FIR Vietnam the route of his flight.
He has his freedom not to choose flying into FIR Sanya or FIR Hongkong on the way to Hanoi from Tokyo

@William Hung : the distance from turning point of AF-1 ( to enter the FIR Ho Chi Minh ) to the nearest feature of Spratly islands at least some hundreds kilometers. I didn't find any reason for AF-1 to fly hundreds kilometer to that feature ( maybe Southwest Cay or Northeast cay ) and back, while its original plan is heading to Hanoi airport.

 

[Arsalan]

maybe obama was hoping to find the malaysian flight MH17 on his way to japan

This is the most sensible post of the thread.

Now that gives one a good idea who the discussion have been going along in this thread.

By the way, what is your signature about?

 

[William Hung]

Yes, do read my first post again.
The quoted tweet, the heading of the thread, is Mark Knoller's own words. My own words are:
Thanks to Obama for explaining the meaning of "Do as I say, not as I do" once again to the world.
The following two tweets are from Mark Knoller, who is the CBS White House Correspondent covering the Obama's tour.

So tell me what is wrong with what I said above?

What is wrong with the title or the tweet you quoted is that is said AF1 avoided flying over the south china sea but in fact it did fly over the scs.

If you want to now change the words to “AF1 avoided flying over the islands”, it would still does not make sense.

Let me try to explain again using less words: there aren’t any normal flight paths from hanoi to japan that fly over any of the “islands”. And flying over those islands would not be the shortest or most direct path either. The shortest flight path is over the Chinese mainland (which is Japan airlines route), or if want to avoid over land, its around Hainan which still does not go over any islands. So when AF1 did not go over any islands, it was nothing unusual because normal flights do not go over any islands in the first. Like someone else said, you have been trying to read to much into this. (What was unusual was that AF1 actually flew closer to the spratly islands than any normal flight path.)

I dont think I can make it more simple than that. If you insist on not seeing any problems then you can continue to argue with someone else.

 

[jhungary]

Jeez, I need to give up on you guys.
Mark Knoller wrote:notes AF-1 flightpath hugged the coast and avoided flying over South China Sea.
https://twitter.com/markknoller

Please don't ask me again who is Mark Knoller.

You seems to unclear on how logically impossible for your post to make sense.......

First of all, what Mark Knoller said is plainly and simply WRONG. As we can see from the flight path, the POTUS had flew over SCS on his last leg to Vietnam. He may have been an accredit journo and may have been a respectable one, that does not means he never make mistake, just look at Tara Brown and the 60 minutes saga.

Then to your own interpretation. You either argue that AF1 did not fly over SCS like the tweet said (Which is wrong) or you contested that China claim the entire Airspace above the SCS and POTUS flew out of the claim boundry, however, you said in your last post that China did not claim the entire airspace above SCS, so what the AF1 did is simply flying over an uncontested international airspace above SCS.

In both cases, you don't have a point to continue.

maybe obama was hoping to find the malaysian flight MH17 on his way to japan

Do you mean MH370 instead? Cause MH-17 were shoot down over Ukraine and was already found

 

[William Hung]

@William Hung : the distance from turning point of AF-1 ( to enter the FIR Ho Chi Minh ) to the nearest feature of Spratly islands at least some hundreds kilometers. I didn't find any reason for AF-1 to fly hundreds kilometer to that feature ( maybe Southwest Cay or Northeast cay ) and back, while its original plan is heading to Hanoi airport.

Maybe our friends had mistakenly thought that AF1 has the duty to perform freedom of overflight operations. And maybe next they will think that AF1 also has the duty to carry bombs and get involved with bombing missions in Iraq.

Anyway, flying through Chinese mainland FIRs is the shortest path and totally away from the SCS or the “islands”. Next shortest path is through Hainan FIRs but can still be far away from the islands. AF1 choice of flying through Ho Chi Minh FIR actually makes it fly closer to the spratlys and paracels islands. So I still got no idea what they mean by “avoided the SCS” or islands.

 

[jhungary]

Maybe our friends had mistakenly thought that AF1 has the duty to perform freedom of overflight operations. And maybe next they will think that AF1 also has the duty to carry bombs and get involved with bombing missions in Iraq.

Anyway, flying through Chinese mainland FIRs is the shortest path and totally away from the SCS or the “islands”. Next shortest path is through Hainan FIRs but can still be far away from the islands. AF1 choice of flying through Ho Chi Minh FIR actually makes it fly closer to the spratlys and paracels islands. So I still got no idea what they mean by “avoided the SCS” or islands.

He is just trying to salvage his position, but hey, you got it easy from him, he attacked my grammar on the other thread

 

[Tiqiu]

You seems to unclear on how logically impossible for your post to make sense.......

First of all, what Mark Knoller said is plainly and simply WRONG. As we can see from the flight path, the POTUS had flew over SCS on his last leg to Vietnam. He may have been an accredit journo and may have been a respectable one, that does not means he never make mistake, just look at Tara Brown and the 60 minutes saga.

Then to your own interpretation. You either argue that AF1 did not fly over SCS like the tweet said (Which is wrong) or you contested that China claim the entire Airspace above the SCS and POTUS flew out of the claim boundry, however, you said in your last post that China did not claim the entire airspace above SCS, so what the AF1 did is simply flying over an uncontested international airspace above SCS.

In both cases, you don't have a point to continue.

Again, apart from the nitpicking, you guys failed to see the dynamic behind this whole event.
During the Republican "undercard" debate on Fox Business in Nov. last year, Gov. Chris Christie said " I'll fly Air Force One over disputed Chinese-controlled islands to show them we mean business". Christie also called US President Barack Obama’s and Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton’s foreign policy “feckless” and “weak.”
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/chris-christie-air-force-one-south-china-sea-2015-11?r=US&IR=T

So the whole of my point of this thread is, isn't this the best time for Obama to fly AF-1 over the Chinese- controlled islands to show he means business? Clearly Obama chose not to do so.

Perhaps that is why Mark Knoller, the White House correspondent , made the statement of "notes AF-1 flightpath hugged the coast and avoided flying over South China Sea" in the first place.

 

[William Hung]

He is just trying to salvage his position, but hey, you got it easy from him, he attacked my grammar on the other thread

I still like him though. I would want to play soccer with him.