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Obama Administration Presses Pakistan to Fight Taliban

NOW READY FOR THE NUKES AMERICANS!! WE ARE NOT IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN DAMN IT!! COMEON BABY GO FOR ATTEMPT!!! send you 1,20,000 troops before develop "Grave City just like Downtown NY" in US for your soldiers!!!
 
Unilateral US operations in FATA are bound to fail.

This scenario has been explored countless times. The problem essentially becomes an extension of the one that exists currently, and exacerbates the situation even more. The problem as it exists currently is that the Pakistani decision to not act against the Afghan Taliban while it attempts to neutralize the TTP is that US efforts in Afghanistan may not succeed as the Afghan insurgents shelter in some parts of FATA. So in case of unilateral US action in FATA, these groups end up being pushed further into Pakistan, and they seek out newer 'safe havens', since Pakistan will still be refusing to act against them.

Without the PA acting as an 'anvil' to the US effort in Afghanistan (or for the sake of argument, US effort in FATA) the problem is not resolved.

Finally, one would have to ask the US what exactly it plans on doing about the provinces in the North East it ceded to the Taliban (Nuristan etc.). Sparsely populated or not, they have (by reports in the media) become a safe haven for Taliban groups, and some Pakistani Taliban groups. Taliban are reportedly regrouping in those Afghan provinces to mount attacks in Bajaur and Mohmand, and Mullah FM (Swat Taliban leader) has reportedly escaped there as well.

Perhaps the US should focus some of its 'drones and air-strikes' in territory it is responsible for ceding to the Taliban first.
 
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Also, please try and locate the original article (in this case the NY Times) instead of the sensationalized and Indianized versions of those articles, especially as they relate to Pakistan.

In fact, I insist that be done, since the Indian media often cherry picks that which suits its narrative, and even distorts the original, and serves little else than flaming the Pakistani members.
 
NOW READY FOR THE NUKES AMERICANS!! WE ARE NOT IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN DAMN IT!! COMEON BABY GO FOR ATTEMPT!!! send you 1,20,000 troops before develop "Grave City just like Downtown NY" in US for your soldiers!!!

This is just pressure tactics, the US won't, can’t and doesn't need to take any military action against Pakistan cause US can have it's way by other means 'read economically' until Pakistan has a US depended economy it can't break the shackles. The trick is to have a robust economy and big market (which I guess Pakistan has) until then US will have is own way by hook or by crook
 
Also, please try and locate the original article (in this case the NY Times) instead of the sensationalized and Indianized versions of those articles, especially as they relate to Pakistan.

In fact, I insist that be done, since the Indian media often cherry picks that which suits its narrative, and even distorts the original, and serves little else than flaming the Pakistani members.

AM I started this thread and posted from original source. The link points to nytimes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/wo...policy.html?hp

I kept the topic also same and did not changed it.

As a habit, I do not post anything from Indian media at all, unless there is no option.
 
well the link is directed to newyork times so I don't know what is there in it which can be termed as Indianised?

Unless India owns NYtimes as well.:rofl:

That would be because I merged two threads - the first one by Indian rabbit was posted in the US affairs section and had no posts.

The second, which was this thread with all the posts, was posted by Screaming Skull and linked to an Indian news source with a much more inflammatory headline.

If you look under IR's first post in the thread, you will see the post by SS that I deleted.

Don't open your mouth and make an *** of yourself when you are not aware of all the information.
 
AM I started this thread and posted from original source. The link points to nytimes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/wo...policy.html?hp

I kept the topic also same and did not changed it.

As a habit, I do not post anything from Indian media at all, unless there is no option.
Absolutely no problems with your post - that is why I merged it with this thread, and I appreciate you linking to the original source.

My comments were primarily directed at Screaming Skull and others who link to often more inflammatory Indian versions of such articles.
 
Hi,

Looks like my thread has created some tensions here. I posted the article from the Indian paper 'Business Standard'. I tried to locate the NYT article but couldn't. Hence I posted the article from Business Standard as such with the same title.

I apologize! My intentions weren't to flame.

Thanks!
 
If US is behind attacks in Pakistan (indirectly), the only reason what I am seeing is to make this war a Pakistan’s war so that we keep helping US……...remember few years back, everyone is taking about “why we are fighting US war” and now everyone is saying “this is our war”…….…in this context…...."dont threaten your lifeline too much"………..and I am sure they will not……..but my feeling is, it’s time to “the only way to survive, hate and hit.”
 
Oh I see. My bad. I tried hard but ofcourse failed (even after gazing the deleted part for 5 minutes) to see the deleted post. :D
Anyways thanks for the clarification. :cheers:

Point being, you had no clue as to what I was talking about.

Take a week off please - I am no mood for dealing with imbeciles.
 
Excellent article from against all this 'do more' crap being 'leaked' in the US media nowadays:


Strategy and war in Pakistan and Afghanistan

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 10:00am

By Ahsan Butt

On the heels of today's devastating attack in Lahore, which killed 45 people and injured about one hundred, we were treated to a front page article in the NYT that would be of interest to many Pakistanis. The article describes the Obama administration's efforts to cajole the Pakistan government and military to "do more". In essence, the message that has been delivered is: do the job, or get out of the way. The administration has explicitly threatened drone strikes in Quetta and boots on the ground in FATA if Pakistan doesn't act against those actors that threaten Afghanistan and allied forces, but not Pakistan directly. On cue, the NYT editorial page joins in the fun, and urges Pakistani military and civilian leaders to realize that this war is for the nation's survival, and that more must be done in confronting the so-called Afghan Taliban. Well, I love a good lecture from the NYT any time I can get one, so I'm grateful for that. But let's deal with some of the questions that this set of events has engendered.

1. What exactly will it take for opinion-makers and decision-makers in the West to draw a connection between their strategies and the enormous physical toll on Pakistan? To be clear, I am not arguing for or against particular strategies. What am I arguing for is a comprehensive evaluation of the implications of various theories of war and conflict. The NYT and Obama administration both have a theory of this war, and that's fine; everybody does, and who's to say, prima facie, who's right and who's wrong? But surely -- surely -- there should be some allusion to what Pakistanis are going through right now? Some signal that the some two and half thousand deaths in the last two years, the nearly five hundred dead in the last two months, somehow, some way, factor into the calculus?

The NYT editorial comes close, when discussing why the military doesn't strike against the Taliban in Balochistan when it says "In part, they are hesitating because of legitimate fears of retaliation." But why, pray tell, are these fears legitimate? Doesn't the NYT bear some responsibility for educating its readers to explain what real retaliation looks like? Real numbers, perhaps? This is not a minor quibble, though it may look like it is to outsiders because I am picking apart at a sentence or two in an entire editorial. The central point remains that people simply have no clue about the lives lost in this war in Pakistan. So let me help you with that:

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There are no candlelight vigils, no Facebook groups, and no Fareed Zakaria specials for Pakistani victims of militant violence. To some extent, this is the result of image problems. Pakistan is a "bad actor" in the international system, and as such, deserves little sympathy. After all, wasn't it Pakistan itself that gave rise to these groups in the first place? Indeed it was. But it is a strange moral and strategic compass that blames women and children shopping at Moon Market for the sins of GHQ and the ISI.

2. Do people understand that Balochistan is an entire problem unto itself? Newsflash, brainiacs at the NYT editorial board: there has been a low level civil war simmering in Balochistan since 2004. This follows the medium level civil war in Balochistan in the mid 1970s. Both times, the military went in, and both times, as the Pakistani military is wont to do, there wasn't a great deal of demonstrated concern for collateral damage.

The people of Balochistan have been denied basic political and economic rights, both by the central government and their nationalist so-called leaders for fifty years now. The last month has seen significant developments in this conflict, with the center -- in the hands of the PPP -- presenting a reform package aimed at placating Balochi nationalism, without much success (at least at this early juncture). If you opened a Pakistani newspaper in the last thirty days, you would know this. It has dominated the news, even more so than the Taliban war.

Why do I bring this up? Because launching drone strikes in Balochistan, and the inevitable civilian casualties that will result, will exacerbate this problem in very serious and predictable ways. I feel stupid even writing this. But apparently it is needed.

Here's how it will play out: Balochi grievances will congeal into both an anti-Pakistan narrative and an anti-anti-Taliban one. The storyline will be that the state has sold out Balochi land to foreign forces, when it wasn't even theirs to sell. Balochistan has long chafed under the hard-nosed attitude of Pakistani central governments, both military and civilian, toward provincial autonomy and federalism. Can you imagine how it will react if and when Pakistan gives the go-ahead for American drones to strike in Quetta? Or even less ambitiously, can you imagine the military making a foray into Balochistan again? At this time?

Get a clue, NYT.

3. Are the Obama administration's ultimatums empty threats? I have to say, upon reading the news article for the first time, that's what I thought. Why? Because surely they know that they cannot do either of the things they are threatening to do if Pakistan does not comply. They can't use drones without the explicit permission of the Pakistani government; that much is clear from the carefully calibrated ways in which the policy first got underway under the Bush-Musharraf partnership, and expanded considerably under the Obama-Zardari partnership. And they can't use Special Ops without risking considerable blowback from the Pakistani military especially; the last time it happened, the military leadership let them know in no uncertain terms that it was not on.

So if they can't do it, why would they threaten to do it? That was my logic the first time I read the piece. And then I sat back, and reflected. And it dawned on me that looking at the credibility of the threat is probably the wrong prism with which to analyze it.

No, what matters more here is the content of the threat: two very big sticks. The Obama administration has seriously broken with the Bush team on this in a significant way. The threats are louder and more ominous, but the sweet talk is gentler and more wide-ranging. While the Bushies generally cared only about the military status quo in the country, we hear time and again from this administration the potential of a broader strategic partnership. The NYT editorial even referenced Obama's promises of "what one aide described as a partnership of "unlimited potential" in which Washington would consider any proposal Islamabad puts on the table." Such promises lack the credibility of the threats above, perhaps even more so, but they do an adequate job of conveying a sense of urgency that was, I daresay, absent from the Americans before. Bigger sticks, yes, but also bigger carrots. The logic, I think, is that by raising the stakes of a bad strategic choice by the Pakistani military, you increase the likelihood of a good strategic choice.

Of course, all this assumes that this is a choice, which brings me to...

4. Is the Pakistan military not going after the Afghan Taliban because of a lack of willingness or a lack of ability? I've talked about this at length before, but it's not immediately clear to me why the military is not going after the Afghan Taliban at this point in time. The Americans seem to think it's because they don't want to and that they don't consider them a threat; to the contrary, the Americans believe that the Pakistani military thinks of the Afghan Taliban as a strategic ally in its rivalry with India. And certainly, there is little evidence disproving this hypothesis.

On the other hand, it is an hypothesis that is not falsifiable, at least right now. That is because assuming the military even wanted to, it couldn't do so. They are mired in a whack-a-mole war right now, jumping from Swat to the wider Malakand division to the northern areas of FATA (Bajaur, Khyber) to South Waziristan. All these operations have been undertaken against sworn enemies of the Pakistani state and groups involved in the killing of Pakistani civilians. In other words, they have their hands full with anti-Pakistan groups, rendering action against anti-US/NATO groups basically impossible. So as things stand, we simply cannot know if this is a matter of intentions or a matter of capabilities.

One piece of idle speculation: why are we so sure that the Pakistani military cannot turn against the Afghan Taliban for now, and then cultivate them later? To be clear, I am not arguing for this position by any stretch. But I do think we need to consider the military's incentives here.

Consider that the American theory of the military's goals is that they (the military) want an ally in post NATO Afghanistan, and thus are not acting against the Afghan Taliban right now. But why does that ally have to be this particular incarnation of the Afghan Taliban? Is it not at least plausible that if the Pakistani military leadership really did want to exert influence in Afghanistan through a local proxy, that they could cultivate that proxy at a later time? It's not as if they don't have the practice or know-how; hell, they've been doing it for nearly twenty years. Why not go after the Afghan Taliban now, satisfy the Americans, and then make a new Afghan Taliban in 2012 to make everyone's lives miserable?

Make no mistake, such a strategy would make everyone's lives miserable -- both in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We've seen this movie before, and we know how it ends. But that's my view, one of a poor pathetic liberal who doesn't understand the world and the way it works. The Pakistani military could, and probably would, see things differently. So why does everybody assume a logic on behalf of the military that may not hold?

Ahsan Butt is a PhD student in political science at the University of Chicago and contributes to the blog Five Rupees, where this was originally published.

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/12/08/strategy_and_war_in_pakistan_and_afghanistan
 
I think Pakistan's the only country that is having any success against the Taliban. The US needs to get its own house in order first. Operation Cobra's Anger has barely even started yet, one of our operations nearing the end and the other one is well under way.
 
I think Pakistan's the only country that is having any success against the Taliban. The US needs to get its own house in order first. Operation Cobra's Anger has barely even started yet, one of our operations nearing the end and the other one is well under way.

although i have alot of respect for PA because they are strong and professionals, but they havent been able to contain the problem of the Taliban. I dont see any difference between afghanistan and pakistan in relation to taliban threat.
 
although i have alot of respect for PA because they are strong and professionals, but they havent been able to contain the problem of the Taliban. I dont see any difference between afghanistan and pakistan in relation to taliban threat.

Actually that is incorrect - where the PA has been deployed and is largely responsible for control and law and order, such as Swat, the PA has been able to contain the problem of the Taliban (see my most recent post in the rah-e-nijaat thread).

The terrorism in the cities is a law and order issue that needs to be dealt with by the Interior Ministry and local law enforcement - the PA is not deployed to control Peshawar, Lahore or Pindi.

The PA's job, as it relates to the security of Pakistani cities, is to deny the terrorists the ability to operate out of the Tribal areas and secure and stabilize them. It has done so successfully in Swat and is in the process of doing so in SW.
 
although i have alot of respect for PA because they are strong and professionals, but they havent been able to contain the problem of the Taliban. I dont see any difference between afghanistan and pakistan in relation to taliban threat.

Taking back Swat from Taliban and resettling back more then 2.5Million IDPs & now the valley in peace with each day taliban surrendering or getting killed, clearing Bajaur from Taliban and then capturing their most prized territory within 3 weeks which was a no go area for govt for the last 3 years, their leadership on the run and now seeking refuge in NATO controlled country, if this all seems nothing to u, then i am sorry no matter what PA does guys like you will see it as nothing.

Afghanistan has 70% territory under Taliban, with NATO abandoning its bases and border posts, while on this side we are capturing more of the Taliban territory with each passing day and limiting their safe heavens. This shows opposite to what is happening on both sides of the border. So i don't see how you can say we have not been able to contain Taliban.

Analysts in their analytical reviews are calling NATO to copy the tactics of PA used in the last 6 months if they want success as they call strategy of PA to be a winning strategy and you have to say the above, i believe all the analysts are fools and ignorant to be saying this.
 

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