Numbers of New Tanks in army

[Blackpearl]

Few more questions

1. What is a Hunter Killer sight. How many Pakistani tanks , do they hav it or not. ( i mean types).

2. What does it mean 'Tank operating in ambush mode'. i hav heard that it means that gun fires while engine is off, then how all electronics, fire control system get power.

Thanx for answers.

 

[JK!]

The T-84 is also a development of the T-80 UD from Ukraine. I do remember a rumour that a lot of the later model T-80's delivered to Pakistan incorporated features from the T-84

Yeah basically the Russians withheld cast turrets from being delivered so the Ukrainians created an all welded one some of which were used in Pakistani
T80s.

 

[zraver]

Few more questions

1. What is a Hunter Killer sight. How many Pakistani tanks , do they hav it or not. ( i mean types).

It is not a sight, it is at least 2 sights the gunners and the commanders. Tanks with only 1 system can only hunt then kill, tanks with 2 or more can hunt and kill at the same time Ie the commander can be looking for targets while the gunner engages targets already spotted. The computer remembers where the targets were and slews towards each target in its cue as the gunner knocks out the previous target.

2. What does it mean 'Tank operating in ambush mode'. i hav heard that it means that gun fires while engine is off, then how all electronics, fire control system get power.

if it has an APU it can power its systems off that, normally however any tank that is hull down and camouflaged is set up for an ambush.

Thanx for answers.

Any time

 

[Iceman]

The only tank in Pakistan Army provided with APUs is Al-Khalid. No other tank has this facility. M-88, an Armoured Recover Vehicle is also fitted with an APU. in APCs, the newly developed command APC (an improved version of M113) also has an APU (also an air conditioner ).

As far hunter killer is concerned. The hunter killer capability is only available in Al-Khalid, where the gunner controls the gun independantly, where as the commander can observe or hunt with his panoramic sight. The commander also has complete control of the gun, which he can assume anytime by simply pressing an over ride switch, and can then fire as good sa the gunner can. Ltd facility of this sort is available in T-80 and T-85. In T-80UD, the commander also has a over ride control, by which he can assume control of the gun. The commander observes the area with his periscope and on seeing a target, can simply lay the gun on to it by pressing over ride control. After this the gunner can either engage the tgt, or the commander himself can fire. In T-85, the commander can only lay the gun with the over ride control, the fire can be conducted by the gunner only. I am not aware if Al-Zarrar has this capability, but rest of the tank in Pakistan Armoured Corps do not have the gun laying or firing capability with the commander.

Zraver dude, you descried the procedure worth atlesat 8-10 seconds, but if you have the personal experience of loading main in 2 seconds, bravo ... and i do respect personal crewing experiences

 

[zraver]

Zraver dude, you descried the procedure worth atlesat 8-10 seconds, but if you have the personal experience of loading main in 2 seconds, bravo ... and i do respect personal crewing experiences

Your a nut job and a poser, there is no way in hell it takes 8 to 10 seconds to bump a pressure plate with your knee, reach in a grab a pre-marked round slide it out letting the end drop towards your lap so the point can swing over the apex and be facing the breach so you can then ram it home and close the bar. It takes 2-3 seconds max.

If you respected crew experiance you'd go get some instead of posing as something your not.

Tank gunenry times 101

first round is already loaded 1 (usually sabot in the US Army) first engagement 4 seconds +1 shot then 6-8 seconds overall depending on how fast the gunner can acquire targets loading is the fastest part of the crew drill. 56/8= 7 shots+1 equals 8 56/7=8+1=9 56/6+1=10 Even autoloader with high rates of fire are still slowed down by the gunners ability to acquire a target, laze it, get permission to engage, and engage.

 

[Blackpearl]

The fighter aircraft hav a system called IFF (Identification Friend or Foe). The civilians aircraft have Transponder, a device which identifies the aircraft, to any interogatory signal it received. IFF is a very important piece of equipment, during "Fog of War'.

You must hav seen the moive 'Courage Under Fire", in which Danzel Washington, as a tank commander ( while commanding a squadron also) hit a friendly, on his right flank, during a night attack.

So in real life, do tanks hav such an identification device/system. so that friendlies are automatically identify themselves to each other, and commander does not rely only on visually identifying the target tank, or checking on R/T.

Consider, a squadron of 14 tanks (Al Khalids), advancing line abrest, at night. Then 1 x troop, veering right, to make a rendevous, 5 kilometrs ahead, completing a 'right hook', move. So what is the possibility that when they finally join at RV, they will not fire at each other (while maintaing radio silence). (this is the exact situation , what happens in 'Courage Under Fire'.

 

[fatman17]

webby- i read some where (i will try to find the link) that the ukranian engine is best suited for pakistani desert conditions. therefore it is the powerplant of choice for the T-80UD and the Al-Khalid MBT. i dont expect any change by the PA on this issue.

Propulsion

At least four diesel powerpack options have been tested on the Type 90-II/Al Khalid MBT, including two supplied by the Perkins Engine Company and each comprising of a CV-12 Condor diesel of 1,200hp (as fitted in the Challenger 1 and 2), coupled to a French SESM ESM 500 automatic transmission (as installed in the Leclerc).

The Pakistan-manufactured Al Khalid MBT is reported to be fitted with a Ukraine built 6TD diesel (as fitted in the T-80UD). Claimed to be the most compact MBT diesel engines in the world, the 6TD series are two-stroke, liquid cooled and supercharged with horizontal cylinders and opposed pistons. At its current battle weight of 46t, the engine gives the Al Khalid MBT a 26hp/t power-to-weight ratio and a max speed of 72km.

 

[zraver]

The fighter aircraft hav a system called IFF (Identification Friend or Foe). The civilians aircraft have Transponder, a device which identifies the aircraft, to any interogatory signal it received. IFF is a very important piece of equipment, during "Fog of War'.

You must hav seen the moive 'Courage Under Fire", in which Danzel Washington, as a tank commander ( while commanding a squadron also) hit a friendly, on his right flank, during a night attack.

So in real life, do tanks hav such an identification device/system. so that friendlies are automatically identify themselves to each other, and commander does not rely only on visually identifying the target tank, or checking on R/T.

Consider, a squadron of 14 tanks (Al Khalids), advancing line abrest, at night. Then 1 x troop, veering right, to make a rendevous, 5 kilometrs ahead, completing a 'right hook', move. So what is the possibility that when they finally join at RV, they will not fire at each other (while maintaing radio silence). (this is the exact situation , what happens in 'Courage Under Fire'.

Fratricide was an issue for the US Army in the First Gulf War, since then however the US has adopted the force XXI brigade level battle management system. This system in its newest forms is full color touch screen, satalite linked, GPS linked, inter-vehicle linked with IFF and support linked. A US vehicle commander can now look at a screen and find every friendly vehicle and every known enemy. It is a huge combat asset.

As I understand Pakistan's system it is less well developed and operates on radio freqs and so might be subject to broad spectrum jamming. However some system is better than no system and in the right hands can more than double effective combat power.

 

[Blackpearl]

"Blue on Blue" situation

Sir Zraver,
The Battle Management System, in modern US tanks is to advanced, and new, and it is , i think not employed as a standerd gear. still under testing.
However, i wanted to know the established procedures, equipment, to avoid friendly fire, used in contemporary tanks of world armies.

Again referring to 'Courage Under Fire', Danzel Washington, after realizing that, he has fired at his own squadron tank, ordered all other tanks to switch on the main heads lights. US tanks were in the middle of T-72 tanks. Therefore, all American tank commanders switched ON their main head lights. Then Washington, ordered his gunneer to lay gun on all those tanks whose lights were off. This way, he knocked out 3 Iraqi tanks.
Do anybody have any comment on this. was that practice right.

Another thing, all complex electronics in tanks get power from alternator/battery source. If somehow, this electricity power source is down , then what.
What about , when keeping radio silence.

 

[zraver]

"Blue on Blue" situation

Sir Zraver,
The Battle Management System, in modern US tanks is to advanced, and new, and it is , i think not employed as a standerd gear. still under testing.
However, i wanted to know the established procedures, equipment, to avoid friendly fire, used in contemporary tanks of world armies.

AFAIK, it is in nealry universal service with the most advanced units being in the M1A2Tusk, M1A1D and Strykers. But I have been out since 95 when the original IVIS/IFF was being tested on the M1A2.

Again referring to 'Courage Under Fire', Danzel Washington, after realizing that, he has fired at his own squadron tank, ordered all other tanks to switch on the main heads lights. US tanks were in the middle of T-72 tanks. Therefore, all American tank commanders switched ON their main head lights. Then Washington, ordered his gunneer to lay gun on all those tanks whose lights were off. This way, he knocked out 3 Iraqi tanks.
Do anybody have any comment on this. was that practice right.

No, in thermals the T-72 and Abrams look nothing alike even at range. The M1 is white hot in the back, has a turret as wide as the hull and is angular. Vehicle ID is a big part of training, but it was harder with IFV's like the Bradley in 91. The original Abrams thermal was a low bid system and telling an M2 from a BMP could be difficult if you could not see a side profile or it was to far away.

Another thing, all complex electronics in tanks get power from alternator/battery source. If somehow, this electricity power source is down , then what.
What about , when keeping radio silence.

1- either use of an APU or if the vehicles must be run to recharge the battery you do all vehicles all at once so the combined sound masks the individual positions.

 

[Iceman]

again personal attacks .. dude ... y are so uptight over the 10-12 rds per minute ... good for you if you can do it .. it is just that i have worked on 4 men crew tanks my self ... but i have a difference experience ... that is all .. you just dont have to get mad if someone expresses a different opinion ..... fine by me if you can load 10-12 rds in a minute dude ... i just have a reservation about it ...... mayb some day i get an experience to go back on a 4 man crew tank and then id try to perfect if as per your claims ... chill out and relax ...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sorry folks, but thread is being closed until the admins get back to, as J Depp so wonderfully put it, "Paarleey!!!"

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thread opened again.

 

[Iceman]

thank you for opening it ... dude...

 

[Blackpearl]

Mr Zraver,
Can you share your further experience with M1A1 tank, as far as its Gas Turbine engines are considered. I have following queries.

1. How good and effecient that engine is in terms of acceleration, top speed(dash), total distance on cruise speed.

2. How bad that engine is in terms of fuel consumption, engine oil consumption, ease of changing engine while in field.

3. what is the MTBF (mean time between failures).

This 1500 HP engine is also calle as gas guzzler. How you compare it with piston engines like 6TD-2 type..................