NSG did not Use Bomb Detection Robots at Pathankot

[Zarvan]

It is not known if DAKSH has been commissioned yet with the Armed Forces
NEW DELHI: About a month before the chief of the National Security Guards' bomb disposal squad Lt Colonel EK Niranjan died in an explosion while handling a terrorist's body rigged with a grenade at the Pathankot Air Force base, the Centre finalised fresh quality standards for surveillance robots for bomb detection tasks.

This comes after sources say that few such robots with the NSG are not functional even as questions are being raised at the Home Ministry on why such two-wheeled and four-wheeled robots were not pressed into service in Pathankot. They were displayed before Home Minister Rajnath Singh at NSG Raising Day last year -- these robots are meant to detect bombs and explosives to eliminate the risk to human life during such operations.

The home ministry did not respond to a query sent by ET on whether these ROVs were taken to Pathankot or used. "NSG does have the robot. I cannot comment on any specific case but at NSG, we have laid down procedures at how bomb detection and disposal should be done," former NSG Chief Arvind Ranjan told ET.

A senior government official said the Centre is looking into why the NSG did not use the equipment available with its bomb disposal squad and whether the "safe procedure drill", in the agency's parlance, was followed in the case of Pathankot airbase attack. "NSG has nearly two dozen world-class bomb protection suits but they were apparently not used. The bombs once detected are defused using a telescopic manipulator and a total containment vehicle - it is being seen if the same was employed in Pathankot or not," the official said on condition of anonymity.

A sub-group of technical experts on bomb disposal equipment had on November 15and 19 finalised qualitative requirements for buying two-wheeled and four-wheeled surveillance robots. These are basically mini robots which can be manoeuvred through a remote. They provide video and audio reconnaissance for bomb detection, are able to climb steps and overcome curbs and obstacles, as per the document floated by the home ministry for vendor comments. These robots are also designed to be used on a pole camera to see over walls, through windows and under culverts for bombs.

Lt Col Niranjan, a resident of Kerala, was killed while trying to retrieve a grenade from the body of a dead terrorist at Pathankot airbase on January 3 during mopping up operations. Three other security personnel were injured during the grenade blast.

NSG did not use bomb detection robots at Pathankot - The Economic Times

 

[Abingdonboy]

It is not known if DAKSH has been commissioned yet with the Armed Forces
NEW DELHI: About a month before the chief of the National Security Guards' bomb disposal squad Lt Colonel EK Niranjan died in an explosion while handling a terrorist's body rigged with a grenade at the Pathankot Air Force base, the Centre finalised fresh quality standards for surveillance robots for bomb detection tasks.

This comes after sources say that few such robots with the NSG are not functional even as questions are being raised at the Home Ministry on why such two-wheeled and four-wheeled robots were not pressed into service in Pathankot. They were displayed before Home Minister Rajnath Singh at NSG Raising Day last year -- these robots are meant to detect bombs and explosives to eliminate the risk to human life during such operations.

The home ministry did not respond to a query sent by ET on whether these ROVs were taken to Pathankot or used. "NSG does have the robot. I cannot comment on any specific case but at NSG, we have laid down procedures at how bomb detection and disposal should be done," former NSG Chief Arvind Ranjan told ET.

A senior government official said the Centre is looking into why the NSG did not use the equipment available with its bomb disposal squad and whether the "safe procedure drill", in the agency's parlance, was followed in the case of Pathankot airbase attack. "NSG has nearly two dozen world-class bomb protection suits but they were apparently not used. The bombs once detected are defused using a telescopic manipulator and a total containment vehicle - it is being seen if the same was employed in Pathankot or not," the official said on condition of anonymity.

A sub-group of technical experts on bomb disposal equipment had on November 15and 19 finalised qualitative requirements for buying two-wheeled and four-wheeled surveillance robots. These are basically mini robots which can be manoeuvred through a remote. They provide video and audio reconnaissance for bomb detection, are able to climb steps and overcome curbs and obstacles, as per the document floated by the home ministry for vendor comments. These robots are also designed to be used on a pole camera to see over walls, through windows and under culverts for bombs.

Lt Col Niranjan, a resident of Kerala, was killed while trying to retrieve a grenade from the body of a dead terrorist at Pathankot airbase on January 3 during mopping up operations. Three other security personnel were injured during the grenade blast.

NSG did not use bomb detection robots at Pathankot - The Economic Times

This article is all over the place- one minuet saying the robots were definetly not used and the next line saying it is unknown if they were used or not.

+ the part about the bomb suits not being used in Pathankot is absolute BS, the DM visited the airbase himself, saw the ongoing operations by the NSG and their render safe drills (including the use of the suits) and commented on it offically (explictly saying that because they were wearing them it took extra long for the technicans to difuse explosives).

I wonder what exactly the compulsion is here to disparage the NSG at all costs? After 26/11 when they WERE ill-equipped I don't recall even 10% of this faux-outrage @PARIKRAMA @Levina @SRP @AMCA @Spectre @Hulk @Star Wars @ranjeet @arp2041 @mkb95 @nair @scorpionx @MilSpec

This time the NSG has performed exceptionally and had the best equipment across the board but it seems the media is trying to find fault with them. Yesterday it was lies about having no NVGs and now this. It is most bizzare.

The Indian media is honestly doing their best to paint this success as a failure at all costs, are they disappointed more peolpe weren't killed? That strategic assets weren't damaged? After 166 people were killed in 26/11 the ridicuously ill-equipped NSG was the media's darlings.

This stinks of being political, the media are turning on the GoI for shutting them out and removing the privlages they have gotten all too used to (remember no more free rides on Air India One and taxpayer funded 5-star hotel rooms for them on foreign PM tours under this new GoI).

 

[Zarvan]

This article is all over the place- one minuet saying the robots were definetly not used and the next line saying it is unknown if they were used or not.

+ the part about the bomb suits not being used in Pathankot is absolute BS, the DM visited the airbase himself, saw the ongoing operations by the NSG and their render safe drills (including the use of the suits) and commented on it offically (explictly saying that because they were wearing them it took extra long for the technicans to difuse explosives).

I wonder what exactly the compulsion is here to disparage the NSG at all costs? After 26/11 when they WERE ill-equipped I don't recall even 10% of this faux-outrage @PARIKRAMA @Levina @SRP @AMCA @Spectre @Hulk @Star Wars @ranjeet @arp2041 @mkb95 @nair @scorpionx @MilSpec

This time the NSG has performed exceptionally and had the best equipment across the board but it seems the media is trying to find fault with them. Yesterday it was lies about having no NVGs and now this. It is most bizzare.

The Indian media is honestly doing their best to paint this success as a failure at all costs, are they disappointed more peolpe weren't killed? That strategic assets weren't damaged? After 166 people were killed in 26/11 the ridicuously ill-equipped NSG was the media's darlings.

This stinks of being political, the media are turning on the GoI for shutting them out and removing the privlages they have gotten all too used to (remember no more free rides on Air India One and taxpayer funded 5-star hotel rooms for them on foreign PM tours under this new GoI).

They performed exceptionally disastrous and most of your analysts and experts know this

 

[Abingdonboy]

They performed exceptionally disastrous and most of your analysts and experts know this

I'm not going to repeat myself, so let me just show you how wrong you are:

30 hours in a base with a 24km circumfrence and 2000 acres contained within the walls to be cleared.

All terrorists were killed within 30 hours, the reamaining period (a day or so) consisted of methodically clearing every square inch of the base to ensure all terrorists were actually dead and making safe the live ordinance. The operation was directed by the NSG and the NSG's Force Commander alone had the authority to declare the operation over after the extnesive "render safe" drill had been carried out- this is NSG SOP and I can't fault it.

I don't know what's "pathetic" about it? The Indian forces wanted to be meticulous and ensure there was no collateral damage.

The scoreboard doesn't lie- 0 civlian deaths (or even casulaties) and 0 damage to strategic assets (as was the goal of the terrorists).

This isn't sugar coating, merely presenting the facts- if that is too hard for you to swallow that is your problem.

@PARIKRAMA @Echo_419 @mkb95 @Vauban @Levina @Kinetic

According to Mr. Parrikar, the flushing out part of the operation was over in 36 hours but the combing operation continued and is likely to stretch for a few day.
Pathankot attack: Defence Minister Parrikar admits to ‘some gaps’ - The Hindu

All terrorists killed within 30-36 hours but it was another 50 or so hours before the operationa was offcially declared over by the NSG force commander on the ground after an extensive "render safe" procedure- again this is SOP. Just like how the 72 hour figure for 26/11 is inaccurate for the same reasons (the fighting actually ended rather soon after the NSG arrived on the scene but the "render safe" drill took a lot longer).


"Pathetic"? No damage to strategic assets or civilian life and all terrorists killed. This is a successful op no matter how one tries to spin it.

.

That is an entirely inaccurate figure.

The Indian DM has said himself the time was almost half that.

Anyway, since when has "operation duration" been a metric of success in SOF missions? Mission success is defined by achieving the mission objectives, in this case the objectives were clear:

-Protect civlian life (thousands of family members were housed on the base)
-Secure strategic assets (the ultimate goal of the terrorists)
-Kill all terrorists

All three were acheived- the time taken to do so is rather irrelevent. In May 2011 did anyone care how long the Abbotobad mission took? The fact that the primary objective had been acheived(killing OBL) was what was the important factor and the main consideration.

Once the terrorists had been contained what was the rush in moving in to kill them? Indian CT doctrine is to try and wear down the enemy so as to capture them alive for intel purposes- where possible. Aside from the intial contact with the Garuds (which will always see the most casualties) and loss of life to a EOD tech no fatalities were suffered by the SFs (Garuds, PARA (SF) or NSG) and all the terrorists were killed.

So how is this a failed/pathetic op??


@Vauban sir, perhaps you can outline to our friend @F.O.X exactly what a mission objective is and what constitutes as military "success"

I've already given you the EXACT reasons for these perceived "failures":

India's patience exhausted, won't allow Pak investigators inside Pathankot airbase: Manohar Parrikar | Page 2

India's patience exhausted, won't allow Pak investigators inside Pathankot airbase: Manohar Parrikar | Page 3


But if you persist in trying to prove a negative then let's turn this discussion on its head, which option is preferable:

X amount of time taken to kill all terrorists but with 2 strategic assets lost and 18 security forces killed
2X amount of time taken to kill all terrorists with 0 loss of strategic assets and 7 security forces killed

And your assertion that India's highest trained and equipped force couldn't neutalise 6 men is FALSE because they DID and with minimal loss to themselves (no casualties sustained in direct combat).

Once again, you are clutching at straws in an attempt to defame this operation and the forces involved but those who can be objective will applaud the NSG, Garuds and all other units involved. This was a textbook Indian CT operation- terrorists contained, civlians evacuated and removed from any possible harm and methodically the rats are killed one by one.

These animals cam with 1000s of rounds of ammo, rations and vast amounts of explosives- they weren't petty criminals and it was only right the security forces treaded carefully and ensured a meticulous operation to eliminate the, completly.

Once again, once the terrorists are contained and there is ZERO risk to civlian life or strategic assets- what is the rush? You can AFFORD to take your time, perhaps with the hope of taking one of these vermin alive for your intel agencies to give the once over later.

@PARIKRAMA @Vauban @Spectre @Bang Galore @Levina @Water Car Engineer @Kinetic @AUSTERLITZ @deckingraj @mkb95 @Unknowncommando @danish_vij this discussion is getting really quite tiresome now, if one can't appreciate a success when it is staring them in the face I don't know what to do.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

We alI should wait for NIA report.. Too much analysis is being carried out by Media on Pathankot...
We will jump the gun now and dissect things which may be having very different contours..
Especially since these are sensitive matters....

 

[Manas]

NSG has nearly two dozen world-class bomb protection suits but they were apparently not used. The bombs once detected are defused using a telescopic manipulator and a total containment vehicle - it is being seen if the same was employed in Pathankot or not.

Obviously they were not used . Indian recklessness in display .
I'll blame the NSG higher ups . One more c-130 sortie with these equipment could have saved lives.