NSA spied on the European Union

[Audio]

No, not at all. Since we know that China and Russia are technologically less developed than us, it's just too obvious that they certainly are very interested in our technology. Both of these countries (even more in China's case) have not infitrated into our society and institutions as the US has been since the end of WWII. It is much easier to put up measures to prevent any infiltrations against them than against the US, since they are already everywhere.

This should be oppurtunity taken for imposing heavy protectionism in the IT and financial sector. Will help catch up and provide protection.

On another forums, coincidentally US military forum the head GM is already threatening with infractions in a thread about this.

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Found this reading how French DGSE conducted industrial espionage in the US...http://books.google.si/books?id=HohPaIyc5G0C&pg=PA426&lpg=PA426&dq=DGSE+spies+on+United+States&source=bl&ots=5gcMV4Kosx&sig=UyRPshlChIi6afQhu7ZDUd-bCQA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4vfQUbj1OI3S9gSkj4CYDg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=DGSE%20spies%20on%20United%20States&f=true

 

[gambit]

Why? What is there to gain?

A temporary boost in public perception of moral authority? As temporary as this political theater that everyone is obligated to perform?

 

[flamer84]

Easier said than done. The US has infiltrated deep into our society and institutions since WWII. The question is how to get rid of them first, since many of them are German nationals.

Get rid of that ridiculous "nazi guilt" constantly shoved down german throaths and fill the shoes that Germany is destined for,the leaders of a united Europe

This should be oppurtunity taken for imposing heavy protectionism in the IT and financial sector. Will help catch up and provide protection.

On another forums, coincidentally US military forum the head GM is already threatening with infractions in a thread about this.

------------------------------------------------

Found this reading how French DGSE conducted industrial espionage in the US...http://books.google.si/books?id=HohPaIyc5G0C&pg=PA426&lpg=PA426&dq=DGSE+spies+on+United+States&source=bl&ots=5gcMV4Kosx&sig=UyRPshlChIi6afQhu7ZDUd-bCQA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4vfQUbj1OI3S9gSkj4CYDg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=DGSE%20spies%20on%20United%20States&f=true

Would that be military.......net? )),...I see the americans very upset about the fact that the europeans are outraged.How dare we get upset? They're one step away of renaming french fries to liberty fries ..........again

 

[Audio]

A temporary boost in public perception of moral authority? As temporary as this political theater that everyone is obligated to perform?

That wouldn't really solve anything....

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

No, not at all. Since we know that China and Russia are technologically less developed than us, it's just too obvious that they certainly are very interested in our technology. Both of these countries (even more in China's case) have not infitrated into our society and institutions as the US has been since the end of WWII. It is much easier to put up measures to prevent any infiltrations against them than against the US, since they are already everywhere.

U.S is been selling to the world about China's threat and some naive European countries bough that crap and follow U.S foreign policy such military embargo against China but Ironically they have done nothing to prepare and prevent against U.S infiltration and got owned with the surprise and unexpected way.

 

[vostok]

USA can not have friends or partners, only vassals and colonies.

 

[Sam1980]

You seriously thought that you WEREN'T being monitored already?!! Anyone ever heard of ECHELON?

Let me make it more clear, all the major software vendors, especially companies like Microsoft and Apple are required to "facilitate" backdoor access to any user, anywhere! But soon that won't even be necessary, because Cloud storage make government's access to the users' information much easier.

By the way, even Open Source software is not an exception! So don't be too happy if you running a Linux!

Obviously, if you're living in States, its easier for them monitor you! The most important issue the U.S. spy agencies are having is not the data collection, they have no problem in that department! The problem they're currently facing is analyzing all this information and prioritizing it based on the content, threat, etc... while that is certainly an automated task, it doesn't eliminate the need for a relatively large team of operators to oversee this task, therefore it doesn't ultimately result in elimination of terrorists overnight! (It will ultimately! by them ending up in sea)

If they already haven't, they should implement context recognition algorithms that could detect the viable threats and create a centralized database (so that all U.S. security agencies could share their information) to be used as a knowledge base for the system.

 

[gambit]

That wouldn't really solve anything....

Giving Snowden asylum would not solve any problems for any country. That is why despite public sentiments, I doubt that any EU government is going to shelter and protect Snowden. Ecuador does it half heartedly for Assange and what has that got Ecuador so far? Zilch. Russia does it just to poke US in the eye. Everyone knows Putin have nothing but contempt for Obama. If this was Bush or even Clinton, Putin would cave.

The problem is mostly public image in relations. There is always a desire in Europe to have the US be more like Europe and ultimately subservient to Europe. That attitude was largely suppressed during the Cold War out of necessity. But now the Europeans have deluded themselves, once again, that there is no threat to their existence and their way of life, that they are now a more 'evolved' people, culture, and society, than the US, and that Americans as a whole is anachronistic and unfitting in the modern world. Not as if they did not believe so during the Cold War to start. I seen it back then and I see the same attitude today. Back then, it was kindly patronizing, today it is openly hostile and contemptuous.

There is no 'solving' a problem that is largely political theater and theatrical posturing. A flash in the pan. No matter what we do as long as Americans are determined to be the way we are, the Euros will always be contemptuous of US and will always seek something, expanding something else, or interpret another thing, to try to put US in what they believe is our 'proper' place. We put up with each other out of many necessities, least of all that we share the same planet. Hand Snowden over to US and the PR issue will go away. I speak rhetorically, of course, since Snowden is not in Europe.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/s...omplaining-too-much-about-american-espionage/

Richard Tomlinson...recalls in his book one of his colleagues asking the then SIS chief, Sir Colin McColl, "Does that mean, sir, that we spy on other European countries?" He records McColl as answering: "Yes, we do. There are always important requirements for intelligence on the economic intentions of our European partners, particularly regarding their negotiating positions on the Maastricht treaty."

A 2009 US diplomatic cable acquired by Wikileaks quotes the CEO of a top German satellite manufacturer as saying that “France is the evil empire, stealing technology, and Germany knows this”, and that French industrial espionage was so widespread that it did far more damage to the German economy than that of China or Russia. In 1991, the former head of France’s foreign intelligence service admitted that France had spied on US technology companies that competed with French rivals. It was noted, then, that “France has long been among the most aggressive users of espionage to collect foreign industrial and technological secrets” – perhaps second only to Japan. This included allegations of bugged seats on Air France. In 1992, another former CIA director, Stansfield Turner, noted that “the French are the most predatory service in the world now that the old Soviet Union is gone”.

Like I said...political theater and posturing.

 

[flamer84]

Giving Snowden asylum would not solve any problems for any country. That is why despite public sentiments, I doubt that any EU government is going to shelter and protect Snowden. Ecuador does it half heartedly for Assange and what has that got Ecuador so far? Zilch. Russia does it just to poke US in the eye. Everyone knows Putin have nothing but contempt for Obama. If this was Bush or even Clinton, Putin would cave.

The problem is mostly public image in relations. There is always a desire in Europe to have the US be more like Europe and ultimately subservient to Europe. That attitude was largely suppressed during the Cold War out of necessity. But now the Europeans have deluded themselves, once again, that there is no threat to their existence and their way of life, that they are now a more 'evolved' people, culture, and society, than the US, and that Americans as a whole is anachronistic and unfitting in the modern world. Not as if they did not believe so during the Cold War to start. I seen it back then and I see the same attitude today. Back then, it was kindly patronizing, today it is openly hostile and contemptuous.

There is no 'solving' a problem that is largely political theater and theatrical posturing. A flash in the pan. No matter what we do as long as Americans are determined to be the way we are, the Euros will always be contemptuous of US and will always seek something, expanding something else, or interpret another thing, to try to put US in what they believe is our 'proper' place. We put up with each other out of many necessities, least of all that we share the same planet. Hand Snowden over to US and the PR issue will go away. I speak rhetorically, of course, since Snowden is not in Europe.

Are you for real,somehow it's our fault,are the europeans guilty for not rolling over and take it like a third world country? Ofcourse we're openly hostile right now,you're effing spying on us on a level equal to Iran and China,you've targeted Germany's entire high tech area,if the evidences turns out to be true american ambassadors in Europe should be sent packing! Since when do you get the nerve to get offended? When the french refused to back the second Iraki invasion your entire nation threw an epic hissy,doing ridiculous things like renaming french fries ....and now that we found out that we're basically terrorists in the eyes of american intelligence services we're supposed to aplaud you?

Yes,you NEED to be put in your proper place,you're turning in a hideous totalitarian state,but if you really want to become that just do it in your effing continent,not in our homes! Fortunately,reading on the net in the last couple of days i've seen that many,many ordinary americans think like us and resent what their goverment has become.Norway should take back the Nobel from Obama.

 

[gambit]

Are you for real,somehow it's our fault,are the europeans guilty for not rolling over and take it like a third world country? Ofcourse we're openly hostile right now,you're effing spying on us on a level equal to Iran and China,you've targeted Germany's entire high tech area,if the evidences turns out to be true american ambassadors in Europe should be sent packing! Since when do you get the nerve to get offended? When the french refused to back the second Iraki invasion your entire nation threw an epic hissy,doing ridiculous things like renaming french fries ....and now that we found out that we're basically terrorists in the eyes of american intelligence services we're supposed to aplaud you?

Yes,you NEED to be put in your proper place,you're turning in a hideous totalitarian state,but if you really want to become that just do it in your effing continent,not in our homes! Fortunately,reading on the net in the last couple of days i've seen that many,many ordinary americans think like us and resent what their goverment has become.Norway should take back the Nobel from Obama.

Post 38 is edited to contain new information. Please read it again.

 

[Kompromat]

Don't forget the french,they have a good history in not towing the american line.

French had the dream of becoming the European superpower,but it all collapsed when the USSR was humiliated by Afghans and its subsequent disintegration lead to a united Germany.

Germany is a model not only for herself but for the rest of Europe to

No,my friend. Germany is a model for the rest of the world too. Including my own country.

if the EU stands a chance to survive we need a common foreign policy but looking at current affairs the germans are reluctant to take the leadership role and rightfully so.

Germany needs to keep EU at bay and just wait. EU is a flawed American idea, it was designed to fail.

Look at what happened in Greece and other countries,all those ungrateful people quickly found the germans guilty for all their wrong doings,

Understandably i guess?

and,in keeping with the fashion nowadays nazi comparisons soon began to be thrown into the fray.The germans are still punished with this ridiculous nazi card,

You mean this?

I don't think German people are more guilty than the Americans,British or the Russians for WWII. The very notion of Nazi card is ridiculous. National socialism is demonized for good reason,they were just a product of what France and British were subjecting the German people to in the aftermath of the WWI.

Most of what we see and read about Nazi germany is propaganda either the Allied or Soviet. Just because of the fact that Germany lost the war, they wrote their own version of history.

even some germans still share the guilt,they need to free themselves from this guilt and look to the future.

They need to take pride in their history. They have more to be proud of than any other European WWII participant. Germans fought will valor and bravery. I don't care what allied or soviet or Zionist owned media propaganda [Have you watched inglorious bastards?] wants us to believe.

No, not at all. Since we know that China and Russia are technologically less developed than us, it's just too obvious that they certainly are very interested in our technology.

Wrong. They are interested in your "work ethic"...your "innovation" is just a consequence of your work ethic.

Both of these countries (even more in China's case) have not infitrated into our society and institutions as the US has been since the end of WWII. It is much easier to put up measures to prevent any infiltrations against them than against the US, since they are already everywhere.

I believe in German culture to survive such a cultural calamity and control. Germany's time to rise again is coming fast. What Germany should do is to remain on friendly terms with Russia,China and Asia. This is where Germany can find friends.

Easier said than done. The US has infiltrated deep into our society and institutions since WWII. The question is how to get rid of them first, since many of them are German nationals.

I believe, German people can find their way out of American hegemony. Germany needs to break free from the WWII BS that is still being fed to it. It needs to develop its military power again. A powerful Germany is in the favor every bit of the developing nations.

Peace

 

[BDforever]

Are you for real,somehow it's our fault,are the europeans guilty for not rolling over and take it like a third world country? Ofcourse we're openly hostile right now,you're effing spying on us on a level equal to Iran and China,you've targeted Germany's entire high tech area,if the evidences turns out to be true american ambassadors in Europe should be sent packing! Since when do you get the nerve to get offended? When the french refused to back the second Iraki invasion your entire nation threw an epic hissy,doing ridiculous things like renaming french fries ....and now that we found out that we're basically terrorists in the eyes of american intelligence services we're supposed to aplaud you?

Yes,you NEED to be put in your proper place,you're turning in a hideous totalitarian state,but if you really want to become that just do it in your effing continent,not in our homes! Fortunately,reading on the net in the last couple of days i've seen that many,many ordinary americans think like us and resent what their goverment has become.Norway should take back the Nobel from Obama.

listen , america can not be trusted in anytime. When China and India will become superpower and when Russia will back in its feet again, who knows America may offer to these countries to be ally and through out EU. America has very big history of changing allies time to time.

 

[flamer84]

French had the dream of becoming the European superpower,but it all collapsed when the USSR was humiliated by Afghans and its subsequent disintegration lead to a united Germany.



No,my friend. Germany is a model for the rest of the world too. Including my own country.



Germany needs to keep EU at bay and just wait. EU is a flawed American idea, it was designed to fail.



Understandably i guess?



You mean this?

I don't think German people are more guilty than the Americans,British or the Russians for WWII. The very notion of Nazi card is ridiculous. National socialism is demonized for good reason,they were just a product of what France and British were subjecting the German people to in the aftermath of the WWI.

Most of what we see and read about Nazi germany is propaganda either the Allied or Soviet. Just because of the fact that Germany lost the war, they wrote their own version of history.




They need to take pride in their history. They have more to be proud of than any other European WWII participant. Germans fought will valor and bravery. I don't care what allied or soviet or Zionist owned media propaganda [Have you watched inglorious bastards?] wants us to believe.



Wrong. They are interested in your "work ethic"...your "innovation" is just a consequence of your work ethic.



I believe in German culture to survive such a cultural calamity and control. Germany's time to rise again is coming fast. What Germany should do is to remain on friendly terms with Russia,China and Asia. This is where Germany can find friends.



I believe, German people can find their way out of American hegemony. Germany needs to break free from the WWII BS that is still being fed to it. It needs to develop its military power again. A powerful Germany is in the favor every bit of the developing nations.

Peace

Sry Sir but you are wrong,the US is totally against the EU,a united Europe speaking in a common voice it's a collossus ,they need small nations pitted against each other ,easy to control.They are doing everything in their power to brake the EU,including the recent crisis that has reached us.Singular european nations simply lack the manpower to rise to their former glory,the EU is exactly what we need but federalisation must continue with power taken away from local stooge politicians and placed in the hands of a european forum who will act with a single voice.

Yes,there is a huge propaganda to keep germans shackled but even in Europe people are letting go of these nazi accusations,they paid a huge price for WW2 ,to big if you ask me,there were more villains in that war not only Germany.I don't care about stupid movies like inglorious bastards.

listen , america can not be trusted in anytime. When China and India will become superpower and when Russia will back in its feet again, who knows America may offer to these countries to be ally and through out EU. America has very big history of changing allies time to time.

They could be allies with whoever they want,their business,it's the spy thy friend thingy that goes down harshly right now
@gambit...So,it's ok because in the 90's rumours were going around that the french were spying on their allies.....It's not like we didn't know they were spying,finding the extent of it is so shocking.

 

[Hyperion]

Europeans are such naive *******...

 

[gambit]

They could be allies with whoever they want,their business,it's the spy thy friend thingy that goes down harshly right now

Then why were YOU not so outrage back when...

EUobserver.com / Secret UE / Intelligence chief: EU capital is 'spy capital'

Intelligence chief: EU capital is 'spy capital'

"In Belgium, espionage, Russian espionage and from other countries, like the Chinese, but also others, [is] at the same level as the Cold War ... We are a country with an enormous concentration of diplomats, businessmen, international institutions - Nato, European institutions. So for an intelligence officer, for a spy, this is a kindergarten. It's the place to be."

He also named Iran as a culprit.

When asked if EU-friendly countries, such as Israel or the US, do it, he said: "It would be naive to think that only countries like Russia, China, Iran are spying."

He added: "There is one field where the difference between neutral, friendly and unfriendly services tends to disappear and that's when you are talking about the protection of economic and scientific potential. In this case, I think every service is in competition with the others."

I apologize...Is this information before you were borned?

@gambit...So,it's ok because in the 90's rumours were going around that the french were spying on their allies.....It's not like we didn't know they were spying,finding the extent of it is so shocking.

No, it is not 'ok'. I never said so and I apologize if I seemed to even implied so. My point is that it is intellectually dishonest to believe that partners in any alliance do not 'spy' on each other. They do so because of diverse national interests. So it is pointless and a bit hypocritical to criticize US when everyone knows everyone is 'spying' on everyone else.