Now that India has lost the war with Pakistan, what is the impact on India's security?

[GumNaam]

The point that Pakistanis miss (rather feign to miss) is that if Kashmir goes then it would put 170 million muslim population in India at risk.

Pakistanis realize that very well as do the kashmiris. as you can tell, kashmiris don't give really a damn. And frankly nor does Pakistan. the Muslims of india are more than welcome to rebel against the state and we would readily help them with full force. but if they are going to continue to pull the "akbaruddin owaisi" by singing the vinda matram under the tranga then they can suffer their fate. NOT our problem.

 

[Cash GK]

When Muslim terrorists of Godhra burnt the train carrying Hindu pilgrims which led to ~60 deaths, it resulted in Hindu-Muslim riots which claimed lives of ~700 Muslims and ~300 Hindus.

Kashmir would be a Godhra at a grand scale i.e at the country level. Around ~170 million Muslims and ~100 Million Hindus would die if Kashmir goes to Pakistan.



Will Muslim countries of the world accept 170 million Indian Muslims? If not they better stop passing useless resolutions and keep their mouths shut.

yes we will.. but on the cost of india

 

[HalfMoon]

Pakistanis realize that very well as do the kashmiris. as you can tell, kashmiris don't give really a damn. And frankly nor does Pakistan. the Muslims of india are more than welcome to rebel against the state and we would readily help them with full force. but if they are going to continue to pull the "akbaruddin owaisi" by singing the vinda matram under the tranga then they can suffer their fate. NOT our problem.

Indian Muslims know very well that Pakistan does not care for them. Hence you can see that they are very anti-Pakistan. Indian Muslims will never agree India parting Kashmir to Pakistan.

yes we will.. but on the cost of india

Huh! You can dream. Some Indian Hindus may agree to India parting Kashmir to Pakistan but none of the Indian Muslims will ever agree. Indian Muslims are not suicidal.

 

[xyxmt]

Pakistan has tasted blood. I do not think this will stop with Kashmir. Pakistan would be foolish not to go for the kill at this point in time.

Pakistan is only interested in Kashmir we do not have any interest in India as long as they don't do anything against us, live and let us live, we don't hate India as country, we don't hate Indians as human but only their back stabbing.

 

[Cash GK]

Indian Muslims know very well that Pakistan does not care for them. Hence you can see that they are very anti-Pakistan. Indian Muslims will never agree India parting Kashmir to Pakistan.



Huh! You can dream. Some Indian Hindus may agree to India parting Kashmir to Pakistan but none of the Indian Muslims will ever agree. Indian Muslims are not suicidal.

at the moment we only care about kashmir.. pak has only focus on kashmir. rest will be fix later..

 

[GumNaam]

Indian Muslims know very well that Pakistan does not care for them. Hence you can see that they are very anti-Pakistan. Indian Muslims will never agree India parting Kashmir to Pakistan.

Muslim indians are not in a position to make any difference. they are irrelevant and only have themselves to blame. The only hope they have is the @AfrazulMandal approach where they rebel against indian state and either carve out another Pakistan out of india or otherwise bring the majority under the minority control. It can happen with our blessings.

 

[HalfMoon]

at the moment we only care about kashmir.. pak has only focus on kashmir. rest will be fix later..

It is a packaged deal my dear.

Future of Kashmir & Indian Muslims go hand in hand.

Muslim indians are not in a position to make any difference. they are irrelevant and only have themselves to blame. The only hope they have is the @AfrazulMandal approach where they rebel against indian state and either carve out another Pakistan out of india or otherwise bring the majority under the minority control. It can happen with our blessings.

The day Kashmir goes, @AfrazulMandal would be on the streets of India either killing a Hindu or being killed by a Hindu.

 

[Cash GK]

It is a packaged deal my dear.

Future of Kashmir & Indian Muslims go hand in hand.



The day Kashmir goes, @AfrazulMandal would be on the streets of India either killing a Hindu or being killed by a Hindu.

is it blackmailing or worry? if blackmailing it will not work if it is worry then sit and talk. thinks can be solved

 

[HalfMoon]

is it blackmailing or worry? if blackmailing it will not work if it is worry then sit and talk. thinks can be solved

It is neither blackmailing nor worry. It is the reality whether one likes it or not.

 

[GumNaam]

The day Kashmir goes, @AfrazulMandal would be on the streets of India either killing a Hindu or being killed by a Hindu.

I can see him killing hindus on the streets, we can guarantee a steady supply of arms and ammunition. hindus on the other hand only have sticks, spears, chaku churis and rampuris...won't do much against assaut rifles, rpgs and hand guns.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Indias defence budget is already over 55 billion USD, whereas Pakistans is only about 11 Billion, the difference is huge. However in current conflict not much to show.

The realists in India, I hope there are such people in chain of command in India those who did not jumped into stream of false bravado currently flowing through India but based on your reply, it seems you still could not accept the fact that JF-17 actually took down two of Indian jets, possibly also Mi-17 involved in EW. Instead you still making claims it was shot down by SAM's or AA battery's. Your IAF underestimated us before the conflict, during initial engagement, but highly likely not anymore.

As for PAF, I am still looking for an answer that why Indian jets were allowed to enter Pakistani Airspace even those few miles it did.

As for Indians, its about time to drop false sense of superiority and accept the ground reality that Pakistan wont be a cake walk as Indians believed.

I would also like to add one more thing to this discussion, it might be more of a political rather military but both countries must establish channels and mechanisms to de-escalate situations, we do have some mechanisms at a lower level but we need something that goes higher up. Pakistan have suggested several times, but it seems Indian political elite/ establishment is too dumb and arrogant to understand the importance of this and still is under an illusion they can militarily get their objectives.




We need to work on our economy, this Indian aggression is a blessing in disguise and IK should fully utilize this moment to change direction of country. We have a clear and present danger from India, some might say it was always there but in recent few weeks its been made abundantly clear that India will not stop at anything short of absolute destruction of Pakistan, no matter how much peace we wish for. This is a golden opportunity and IK must avail it. As for the military aspects, I am sure PAF will be taking serious note of this situation and will further improve its capabilities.



It seems HAL wont be able to deliver to what is required by the Indian Airforce, the Tejas debacle should have made it pretty clear. Its about time India do a comprehensive study on failings of HAL and proceed to address them. Tejas looked pretty good on paper, but once built even IAF dont want anything to do with it. May be its time to go back to drawing board and apply the lessons learned and build on those.



Tejas, looks like a lost cause at the moment, time to move on.



There are no Pakistan based groups anymore. Instead of blaming Pakistan for all its problems India needs to address its own issues first, in particular Kashmir. As for the world, ISIS is their biggest concerned. We are fighting a long WOT and have made some real progress towards defeating them, which by the way is funded mostly by India. Do not try to claim that India is a benevolent power, the visceral hatred India had towards Pakistan is more than clear now to us and I am under no illusions any more regarding peace. In my personal opinion we should pay India back for what it did to us by supporting terrorism across Pakistan and currently engaged in as well.
One thing is clear to me, the only way of countering Indian aggression is to make India realise that their misadventures shall be paid in full with interest. And no I do not wish for war, but unless India seriously changes its attitude towards Pakistan, I dont see any other option.

1. Indian defence budget also includes pensions and salaries of personnels which is huge. And moreover maintaining an Army of 1.3 million is no joke. And no its not 55B. Its 49.7B this year. The dollar value of our budget falls every year as is our percentage of our GDP. Infact we had 51B of defence budget few years back when our INR was 55-58 for a dollar. We are working on many social budgets and infact this year budget is 1.6% of GDP, lowest since 1960. Our priorities are different in a way, working on housing, small loans, toilets, healthcare and infra takes most of our budget. Hopefully from next year it will change.

We had given some proof of AIM120 C missile that can be fired only from an F16. And electronic signatures of our radars doesnt lie. Do you honestly believe no F16 took part in that operation. Parliamentary committee on defence was over 2 days back as we speak. They are grilling IAF. Do you think India has the ability to hide pilot or ac losses? Social media storm will take over. Plus elections time are near. If opposition comes to know of this, they will destroy the ruling party. Unlike Pakistan, political parties walk over our armed forces. No special patronage and the last thing they will do is publicity for ruling party. It doesnt hold water. If second pilot is killed or in captivity their family would have been on the streets by now. One ac was taken down. Second was either an Pakistani ac or an illusion. ISPR release did not explain what happened to the second pilot. India doesnt disown its soldiers. Hell we are fighting for Mr. Kulbushan jadhav.

Pakistan is not Somalia. Nobody assumed Pakistan will be a cakewalk. Atleast its army. India cannot hope to defeat without taking significant losses in terms of life. Are we ready to face losses? No. I wont send soldiers to meat grinder without any objective.

As for peace resolutions, ABV- Musharaff and later MMS Musharaff resolutions were near to it. But thwarted (said to be) by ISI. Nawaz Sharif tried twice. Once in 99' and another during in his tenure. We know where he is now. Its time Pakistanis realise IK is not drivers seat wrt to policies regarding India. An entity which ruled a country for 55 years of 70 years will have its tentacles and influence everywhere. As of now Indian policy is terror and talks cannot go hand in hand. I cannot blame them. We are talking since decades and nothing has been achieved. If a peacenik like MMS cannot be convinced in his 10 years of his rule, how chances are peace with Modi in charge?

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...dget-falls-way-short-for-modernization-plans/

2. Economy is something India is working on and a primary reason why Armed forces are getting the lowest money since 1960 for defence. India is in the middle of serious infra re-contruction. I hope Pakistan does the same and wish well for its people.

3. HAL never designed the LCA. Its the ADA and HAL is just the manufacturer of the jet. HAL has its own issues but LCA debacle is not of them.

4. We are moving on Mk1A and Mk2. We have experiences learnt. Mk1A and Mk2 will have even more Indian avionics, most importantly our own AESA radar, radar receiver and even sport Indian HUD. I hope turnaround time for Mk1A and Mk2 are less. Failing which the whole Programme will be a debacle as you say.

5. Whether India actually funded terrorism inside Pakistan is for world community to be convinced and engaged. I am sorry but not even China could be convinced to believe India is bombing people inside Pakistan. I think it was Sartaz Aziz who made a RAW booklet and then later claimed there is no evidences of RAW actions inside Pakistan but mere statements made by various people. All the while I do not deny India is virgin. We have blood on our hands. But the extent is merely overstated by Pakistan for its inability to curb extremism/jihadism. All the bombings/killings are done by Pakistanis themselves or Afghans bought up in Pakistan.

26/11 proved the camps inside Pakistan are still happening and recent Pathankot attacks in 2016 were another reminder of Pakistan based/trained/armed groups are present if not thriving as before. The sooner Pakistan works on dismantling their own deep state, the better its for the whole region. Even if PM Modi is a warmonger, please remember ex PM MMS was a hardcore peacenik to his core and even then Pakistan was unable to convince its sincerity.

My 10 cents.

The point that Pakistanis miss (rather feign to miss) is that if Kashmir goes then it would put 170 million muslim population in India at risk.

How so?

 

[Cash GK]

It is neither blackmailing nor worry. It is the reality whether one likes it or not.

let the kashmir decid their future and open ..borders like europe

 

[HalfMoon]

let the kashmir decid their future and open ..borders like europe

The problem is Kashmirs cannot unilaterally decide the fate of 170 million Muslims of India.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

When Muslim terrorists of Godhra burnt the train carrying Hindu pilgrims which led to ~60 deaths, it resulted in Hindu-Muslim riots which claimed lives of ~700 Muslims and ~300 Hindus.

Kashmir would be a Godhra at a grand scale i.e at the country level. Around ~170 million Muslims and ~100 Million Hindus would die if Kashmir goes to Pakistan.



Will Muslim countries of the world accept 170 million Indian Muslims? If not they better stop passing useless resolutions and keep their mouths shut.

This is very true.

Which is precisely why I want all of the subcontinent to unite under Muslim rule.

The problem is Kashmirs cannot unilaterally decide the fate of 170 million Muslims of India.

No they selfishly cannot.

Muslim indians are not in a position to make any difference. they are irrelevant and only have themselves to blame. The only hope they have is the @AfrazulMandal approach where they rebel against indian state and either carve out another Pakistan out of india or otherwise bring the majority under the minority control. It can happen with our blessings.

We can make a huge difference.

We have single handedly prevented hindus from builting a Hindu temple in one of their holiest sites if not the holiest site.
Hundreds of similar mosques built on defeated property is still protected by us. This is our land and no power can evict us.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

When Muslim terrorists of Godhra burnt the train carrying Hindu pilgrims which led to ~60 deaths, it resulted in Hindu-Muslim riots which claimed lives of ~700 Muslims and ~300 Hindus.

Kashmir would be a Godhra at a grand scale i.e at the country level. Around ~170 million Muslims and ~100 Million Hindus would die if Kashmir goes to Pakistan.



Will Muslim countries of the world accept 170 million Indian Muslims? If not they better stop passing useless resolutions and keep their mouths shut.

You are exaggerating. 170m people. And what makes you think an average hindu will start riots for an Kashmiri Muslim thing? tbh sympathy for Kashmiri muslims among Indian muslims is very low. Have you seen Indian Muslims protest for Kashmiris and vice versa?

And do not speak for Indian Muslims or an Hindu as a whole. Riots are no easy things nowadays. Whether Kashmir will be gifted to Pakistan is highly doubtful, a solution can be worked out with PO-JK to make JK quasi independent. Like MMS Musharaff plan in 2005. It would have succeeded if Musharaff hadnt insisted on Siachen demilitarization. They didnt trust Musharaff and rightly so after Kargil.