Now that India has lost the war with Pakistan, what is the impact on India's security?

[GumNaam]

It will. But I consider the basic things first. Protecting our soldiers and networking each and every indivisual soldier is the primary responsibility. OFB shouldnt hire any new people and should be closed slowly. HAL must be privatized to 49% GoI stake so private players will call the game and hire/fire people across boards to improve accountability. There is an attempt to make indigenous ac industry and BJP govt is giving some pressure in that route which is welcome. Manohar Parrikar saved the Tejas programme from being shelved.
AMCA should be co-developed with France. And when basic necessities are fullfilled then we can go for more extragavant 15 S400, THAAD or Iron dome.

It is a disgrace that India is still operating MIG 21s first inducted in 1961!

If India is serious that first thing it needs to do is balkanize and sell HAL & OFBs to private players. If India cannot balkanize these then it should be ready to get balkanized herself.

India is lagging in Basic & Intermediate jet trainers. One cannot put a rookie pilot directly on a Rafale.

IAF needs to expedite procurement of 100 Gripen, 140 Rafale, 72 FGFA & 100 units of Predator C Avenger on a priority.

Need to increase S-400s to at least 15 from the current 5 and go for THAAD & Iron Dome.

Army needs to get Armata, VSHORAD (dump IGLA-S and go for Verba or RBS70 NG) and good Sniper equipment.

Navy needs to expedite minesweepers, P-75Is, S-70B


This laundry list is huge and will take an eternity.

Uh bbbbboy... they're fantasizing again...

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

I am not pakistani. I just don't agree with you and if your government was being truthful they would have declared war but they won't. So relax and don't waste valuable time.

A full war between this two countries is not a bluff but reality

And I dont care if you agree with me. Have a good day.

 

[Longhorn]

Here is the thing with India that I need to share.

They have massively miscalculated everything and mostly in 3 important points.

1. They walked right into a foreign territory who has a nuclear weapon expecting nothing in return. This was extremely dumb, naive and childlike.

2. Their large numbers gave them a sense of security but what they don't realize is that these people are very weak once shit hits the ground. They will not withstand war of attrition as good as the Pakistanis will nor will they be united as good as PK. Pakistan might have smaller numbers but are more tougher and can endure more hence Indians are not normally nor historically people of war and mostly vegans or vegetarians.

3. The world will not intervene if such war occured because everyone will be thinking I don't want to get hit with nuclear weapon.

Another think to note is that as soon as such war kicks off all major cities and population centers will be levelled to the ground. Like seconds from the declaration of war. Cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Tamil nadu, etc etc all major cities in India and the same on the pakistan sides cities like Karachi, Islamabad etc etc. That will be just seconds in to the war will be levelled to the ground.

I find the Indians to be far from reality where as the Pakistanis are more in line with reality and In this saga 2 things became clear Pakistan knows what they are doing while India dosen't know what they are doing. If you lose sense of reality you will lose everything, propaganda war, social media war etc etc.

Pakistan has the egde currently technologically especially with tanks and airforce equipments and will surpass them even more in the near future.

This self fellatio by the Indians has been going on for as long as I can remember. They have been living in an echo chamber and recently since they have started to suck the American's cock, the West has been telling them what they wanted to hear. Eventually they have believed their own bullshit, hence the arrogant attitude.
However, since their bubble has well and truly been popped, they are in a much more difficult place than they were last Monday.
The narrative all along has been that of a virtuous and democratic India against a rogue Pakistan. The Indians have played to the gallery and been rewarded with a free ride into the Western sphere, not because the West has any doubts about it's conduct but because it suits them at this time. We on the other hand have had the Afghan quagmire and all its attendant burdens and problems thrust upon us involuntarily. There is no doubt there have been calculations and miscalculations along the way but generally we have done what we needed to do to survive in the face of extremely difficult circumstances, both from within and outwith.
At home we have had a series of incredibly incompetent and corrupt governments that have put the well-being of the country well behind their own interests.
However, we are now coming out of this spiral.
The Americans want out of Afghanistan, we have a government and prime minister that are putting the interests of Pakistan to the fore and we have an India that has just been chastened.
The Pakistan that India has to deal with isn't the one of a few years ago. It is a more open, forward looking, confident Pakistan.
I truly believe we have turned a corner this week in terms of our relationship with India. The question is can India accept this new reality. It has to know that it cannot ignore us or the Kashmiris any longer. They must know that we will not abandon the Kashmiris to be butchered. They must know that we will not be cowed by their threats any longer. They must know that they cannot attack us without risking a full fledged war and all it's consequences for nuclear escalation. All their dreams of imposing limited war below the nuclear threshold have gone up in smoke. They have seen our resolve and I honestly think the message has hit home.
This week will be seen as a watershed for Pakistan.

 

[艹艹艹]

AMCA should be co-developed with France. And when basic necessities are fullfilled then we can go for more extragavant 15 S400, THAAD or Iron dome.

You seem to forget that the F35, f18, F16, SU57……

 

[Cash GK]

Modi wanted to show bravado after the Phulwama terror attack but the ill prepared, ill equipped & ill trained Indian military lost the war.

What is impact of this idiotic move on the future of India as a country?

Will China and Pakistan now get emboldened by this loss of war by India and attack with impunity to balkanize India?

we dont need to do anything with india.. please behave like humans. this is the request from pakistanis side..let the kashmiris decided their future

 

[GumNaam]

You seem to forget that the F35, f18, F16, SU57……

How rude... interrupting their mental masturbation like that...

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

BJP had five years to balkanize and privatize OFBs and they did nothing. I am not holding my breath.

Even if BJP had 15 years they cannot do anything about it. They are public sector units and you know the politics of privatisation. The only thing I expected was more Rafales and follow on to Scorpene subs. Rahul put a pull stop to that. And defence has decreased under this rule. But to be fair Finance says there is now 100% utilisation while in the past utilisation was poor and money was returned to treasury, creating a illusion of higher GDP for defence

You seem to forget that the F35, f18, F16, SU57……

Oh. The Panda is so cute.

we need to do anything with india.. please behave like humans. this is the request from pakistanis side..let the kashmiris decided their future

But Pakistan cannot have the whole of Kashmir. Jammu, North Kashmir(Shias and tribe dominated) and ladakh will have to stay with India in case of such resolution.

 

[HalfMoon]

Even if BJP had 15 years they cannot do anything about it. They are public sector units and you know the politics of privatisation. The only thing I expected was more Rafales and follow on to Scorpene subs. Rahul put a pull stop to that. And defence has decreased under this rule. But to be fair Finance says there is now 100% utilisation while in the past utilisation was poor and money was returned to treasury, creating a illusion of higher GDP for defence

You can blame congress for the delay with MMRCA and scorpenes but BJP did not fare any better either.

Modi sat on the S-400 deal for a good 4 years.

Uh bbbbboy... they're fantasizing again...

People cannot live without hope.

 

[Cash GK]

Even if BJP had 15 years they cannot do anything about it. They are public sector units and you know the politics of privatisation. The only thing I expected was more Rafales and follow on to Scorpene subs. Rahul put a pull stop to that. And defence has decreased under this rule. But to be fair Finance says there is now 100% utilisation while in the past utilisation was poor and money was returned to treasury, creating a illusion of higher GDP for defence



Oh. The Panda is so cute.



But Pakistan cannot have the whole of Kashmir. Jammu, North Kashmir(Shias and tribe dominated) and ladakh will have to stay with India in case of such resolution.

you missing my point let them decide. who wants to live with india we don’t mind..

 

[macnurv]

Possibly a trigger and a vigour to re-equip Indian armed forces?! The aftermath of 1962 was immediate modernisation of Indian armed forces and we were extremely powerful in the 80's as a result of that. Perhaps we needed a kick in the back.

Our GDP for defence is lowest since 1960 and perhaps it will increase to 2-2.2% again? Perhaps more Rafales will be ordered. IBM programme might come back on track. But if PAF has its own issues. It was caught with its pant downs. It was only after IAF fighters chased PAF fighters deep into their territory they were able to bring it down through SAM or AA or another ac.

Indias defence budget is already over 55 billion USD, whereas Pakistans is only about 11 Billion, the difference is huge. However in current conflict not much to show.

The realists in India, I hope there are such people in chain of command in India those who did not jumped into stream of false bravado currently flowing through India but based on your reply, it seems you still could not accept the fact that JF-17 actually took down two of Indian jets, possibly also Mi-17 involved in EW. Instead you still making claims it was shot down by SAM's or AA battery's. Your IAF underestimated us before the conflict, during initial engagement, but highly likely not anymore.

As for PAF, I am still looking for an answer that why Indian jets were allowed to enter Pakistani Airspace even those few miles it did.

As for Indians, its about time to drop false sense of superiority and accept the ground reality that Pakistan wont be a cake walk as Indians believed.

I would also like to add one more thing to this discussion, it might be more of a political rather military but both countries must establish channels and mechanisms to de-escalate situations, we do have some mechanisms at a lower level but we need something that goes higher up. Pakistan have suggested several times, but it seems Indian political elite/ establishment is too dumb and arrogant to understand the importance of this and still is under an illusion they can militarily get their objectives.

I hope Pakistan does not get caught in this. The focus in Pakistan I dearly hope goes back to the basic reforms began by PM IK. Education, hospitals, justice, investment in our youth and changing our culture toward business. Pakistan needs another 10 years at least under PM IK to set it on the right path of economic sustainabilty. In 10/15 years much of Chinese military technology will reach maturation and that should be time for Pakistan to carry major military overhaul. But Pakistan right now needs a decade of progress.

I just hope we don't have other incidents to disturb the work that needs doing in Pakistan.

We need to work on our economy, this Indian aggression is a blessing in disguise and IK should fully utilize this moment to change direction of country. We have a clear and present danger from India, some might say it was always there but in recent few weeks its been made abundantly clear that India will not stop at anything short of absolute destruction of Pakistan, no matter how much peace we wish for. This is a golden opportunity and IK must avail it. As for the military aspects, I am sure PAF will be taking serious note of this situation and will further improve its capabilities.

It has good trainers. Its training routines are developed from tactics from Russians and lately from Americans. But the aircrafts. Can you imagine we sending Mig 21 Bisons, though not a bad ac but very old in age and time, to intercept F16's and JF17's? The MMRCA process started in 2007 and yet not a single ac has been delivered. And then we have Mig 27 outdated and waiting to be retired. Our jaguar modernisation programme is running 5 years behind schedule, thanks to HAL and sources to be told, some 20 Jags are sitting in HAL hangers.

It seems HAL wont be able to deliver to what is required by the Indian Airforce, the Tejas debacle should have made it pretty clear. Its about time India do a comprehensive study on failings of HAL and proceed to address them. Tejas looked pretty good on paper, but once built even IAF dont want anything to do with it. May be its time to go back to drawing board and apply the lessons learned and build on those.

I just hope we order some 100 plus Rafales, start Su30 MKI modernisation as Su30 tech is still 90's tech, Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A to have some semblance of modern fighters.

Tejas, looks like a lost cause at the moment, time to move on.

And pray Pakistan based or origin terrorists arent involved in any attacks around the globe or in India. The time has changed between 2009 and 2019. Not the bravado part. But the social media aspect. Social media has given each and every individual a voice now. And it creates an unwanted pressure on decision makers. They will be blamed if they take a decision and still be blamed if they dont. And that's the exact summary of what happened now.

There are no Pakistan based groups anymore. Instead of blaming Pakistan for all its problems India needs to address its own issues first, in particular Kashmir. As for the world, ISIS is their biggest concerned. We are fighting a long WOT and have made some real progress towards defeating them, which by the way is funded mostly by India. Do not try to claim that India is a benevolent power, the visceral hatred India had towards Pakistan is more than clear now to us and I am under no illusions any more regarding peace. In my personal opinion we should pay India back for what it did to us by supporting terrorism across Pakistan and currently engaged in as well.
One thing is clear to me, the only way of countering Indian aggression is to make India realise that their misadventures shall be paid in full with interest. And no I do not wish for war, but unless India seriously changes its attitude towards Pakistan, I dont see any other option.

 

[HalfMoon]

you missing my point let them decide. who wants to live with india we don’t mind..

The point that Pakistanis miss (rather feign to miss) is that if Kashmir goes then it would put 170 million muslim population in India at risk.

 

[Cash GK]

The point that Pakistanis miss (rather feign to miss) is that if Kashmir goes then it would put 170 million muslim population in India at risk.

i agree but some international players must give them guarantee.. pakistan will give them Guarantee as well

 

[HalfMoon]

i agree but some international players must give them guarantee.. pakistan will give them Guarantee as well

What guarantee and to whom?

 

[Longhorn]

The point that Pakistanis miss (rather feign to miss) is that if Kashmir goes then it would put 170 million muslim population in India at risk.

Interesting.
Would you care to elaborate?

 

[Cash GK]

What guarantee and to whom?

un and from some muslims countries