Now, an oxygen room for Army in Siachen and Leh

[Icarus]

What makes you think India would come to the negotiation table without the mujaheddin not receding back ?

What if India repeats a 1965 ? That is, to relieve the pressure on the Kargil front, opens new front all along from Punjab to Gujarat across the international border ?

I can't say since it was not my plan, but it must have not probably been thought thought through like it should have. It was Nawaz's last ditch effort to save his position. He saw how the Nuclear Blasts had garnered a significant deal of support for him and imagined that he could cash in on it and try and secure the Kargil peaks.

 

[third eye]

no.. PA did anticipate IA's or for that matter any army's weakness to get hold of the peaks without the support of a good high precision bombing capability from Air-force. And at that time IAF seriously lacked high precision bombing capability and also didn't had any LGBs etc..

so, on a strictly theoretical basis, the plan was not downright kiddish by a mile.. but what they didn't anticipate was that France will approve the Israeli modification of Mirages within a matter of days and Israel helping India to the extent that it not only offered to lend it's military complex entirely at India's disposal but also offer it's pilots to fly sorties ..

Ofc, IAF rejected the sortie offer but the French Mirages loaded with Israeli LGBs and targeting pods pounded the hell out of PA.

With pakistani political leadership not finding the backbone to provide even a tactical air-support, it was just
a matter of time before a bomb would have landed on those officers' head. And rest is history.. !!!

Pak has in most cases failed to grasp the potential that India can bring to bear at its point of focus and choosing.

This one point has been glossed over repeatedly.

 

[arp2041]

I can't say since it was not my plan, but it must have not probably been thought thought through like it should have. It was Nawaz's last ditch effort to save his position. He saw how the Nuclear Blasts had garnered a significant deal of support for him and imagined that he could cash in on it and try and secure the Kargil peaks.

So u are saying that Pakistani politicians can even start a war to garner support of the people who for some or the other reason were drifting away??

 

[Icarus]

So u are saying that Pakistani politicians can even start a war to garner support of the people who for some or the other reason were drifting away??

I am saying that they thought that they could and even went so far as to try it.

 

[mfreak]

I thought that the whole plan of Kargil when it came to Paksitan, atleast as much as Nawaz was told about, was to merely lend logistical support to the Mujahideen while maintaining plausible deniability.

I think it was an error in judgement by Pervez Musharraf and co.

 

[KRAIT]

So u are saying that Pakistani politicians can even start a war to garner support of the people who for some or the other reason were drifting away??

Taking Kargil after loosing Siachen would have gained immense support. But the way indians replied especially the Bofors deployment and Air strike, that wasn't expected.

It was a good plan strategically but India didn't back down which made this decision of our govt. send a message as the victory was not just for Kargil but also to tell Pakistan and others that India can't be pushed around now.

Both govt. did their best but certain failures at both ends, India's initially and Pakistan's in Kargil war resulted in this outcome.

 

[arp2041]

Taking Kargil after loosing Siachen would have gained immense support. But the way indians replied especially the Bofors deployment and Air strike, that wasn't expected.

It was a good plan strategically but India didn't back down which made this decision of our govt. send a message as the victory was not just for Kargil but also to tell Pakistan and others that India can't be pushed around now.

Both govt. did their best but certain failures at both ends, India's initially and Pakistan's in Kargil war resulted in this outcome.

When Gen. Musharraf planned for Kargil, he never thought that India will in anyway back down, he had somewhat predicted the Indian response, but the objectives of Kargil Op. were pretty clear:

1. Cut off the strategic Srinagar-Leh highway, so that Siachin gets cut-off.

2. Internationalize Kashmir issue again which was for some time finding deaf ears in international circles.

3. Hold the peaks as long as one can, the more the time PA can hold the heights of Kargil, the more the international pressure for cease-fire & India will soon be on the negotiating table discussing how to resolve Kashmir.

But Since Indian govt. din't wanted a full scale war for many reasons - Nuclear conflict, impact on economy, more lives at stake, etc., India responded locally but with such a massive force that PA could have never imagined. Though not wanting a full scale war did not tied Indian armed forces hands completely, IAF was given orders to shoot down any plane crossing international border (Atlantique incident), IN was given the orders to put a blockade of Karachi port if the conflict extends for few more days to squeeze the supply lines of the PA. Thus a massive response, imminent blockade by IN, political pressures, etc. forced Pakistani leadership to retreat & Kargil Op. though a strategic masterpiece by PA turned out to be a Political blunder.

Kargil war gives us the best example that though Nuclear weapon can avoid (to some extent) a full scale war, but they cannot bogged down nations to fight a localized conflict to achieve some strategic gains, thus we should not lose focus of our conventional capability even in this nuclear age.

 

[surya kiran]

I am saying that they thought that they could and even went so far as to try it.

The biggest blunder I think was done by denying those were Pak soldiers. This prevented them from getting any kind of air support or over whelming arty support which could have pro-longed or provided a tactical advantage to the troops in those peaks.

Had it been acknowledged, then IAF jet sorties pounding those positions could have been made tougher.

Actually, come to think of it, Musharraf was right that they were not Pakistani Army men. They were NLI, which at that point of time was not part of the PA. But, then it cost a lot of lives.

 

[Sergi]

The biggest blunder I think was done by denying those were Pak soldiers. This prevented them from getting any kind of air support or artillery support which could have pro-longed or provided a tactical advantage to the troops in those peaks.

Had it been acknowledged, then IAF jet sorties pounding those positions could have been made tougher.

Actually, come to think of it, Musharraf was right that they were not Pakistani Army men. They were NLI, which at that point of time was not part of the PA. But, then it cost a lot of lives.

You kidding ???
PAF giving air supports in Kargil would have been deceleration of War and it would not have been limited to Kargil. IN and IAF would have got the full green lights.
Actually hitting the picks and remaining in Indian airspace was more difficult

If some people are to be belived , BJP govt. purposefully delayed action to increase the scale of conflict. Only good thing GoP did in all this act was they officially remained neutral and reduced the scale of conflict

 

[ChennaiDude]

I hope now Pakistan will provide at least shelter of their soldier so that they won't get buried under snow......

Not right my friend>>>Those brave soldiers deserve better than that...Hope you edit your post.

Soldiers dont make desisions they only follow orders!

 

[jnd3x0]

it's win win situation for both, indians will feel comfortable in oxygen rooms while PA will find it very convenient to blow up oxygen room instead bringing down each individual at post there

 

[harpoon]

I can't say since it was not my plan, but it must have not probably been thought thought through like it should have. It was Nawaz's last ditch effort to save his position. He saw how the Nuclear Blasts had garnered a significant deal of support for him and imagined that he could cash in on it and try and secure the Kargil peaks.

So whats the truth..did Sheriff knew about the operation from the start, had limited knowledge of the operation or kept in the dark until the last moment?

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

So whats the truth..did Sheriff knew about the operation from the start, had limited knowledge of the operation or kept in the dark until the last moment?

huhwat ? U still buy that BS ?

He was a PM dude not some random tribal leader to know only of his village and not knowing what is happening across the world...

 

[harpoon]

huhwat ? U still buy that BS ?

He was a PM dude not some random tribal leader to know only of his village and not knowing what is happening across the world...

Well he is a PM of a country where military functions as an independent organization outside Govt purview where its said that even PM is not allowed to have information about strategic weapons like nukes and just signs the budget needed by the forces without asking any question, which is formulated in GHQ and not in Fiance Ministry.

 

[surya kiran]

You kidding ???
PAF giving air supports in Kargil would have been deceleration of War and it would not have been limited to Kargil. IN and IAF would have got the full green lights.
Actually hitting the picks and remaining in Indian airspace was more difficult

If some people are to be belived , BJP govt. purposefully delayed action to increase the scale of conflict. Only good thing GoP did in all this act was they officially remained neutral and reduced the scale of conflict

If you are an army general, you ensure protection for your troops. You give them covering fire when required. We did not get to Siachen and say oh, those are the Ladakhis establishing a new village.

My point is purely from the fact, that if they acknowledge those were Pakistani soldiers, PAF fighters could have been used to make the situation worse.