Not so secular India

[fd24]

yes.. shabana asmi..a muslim actress whose movies were only released and accepted in Muslim owned theaters and watched by Muslims only.
by the way recently i was also searching for a room for rent and came across a good one..but the owner was a Muslim and would only give it to a Muslim.

So we can deduce the following: Some Hindus wont rent to Muslims. Some Muslims wont rent to Hindus.
Another nail in the secular we are not story.

 

[KS]

So we can deduce the following: Some Hindus wont rent to Muslims. Some Muslims wont rent to Hindus.
Another nail in the secular we are not story.

Refer to the previous post and specifically to the last para. I think it applies to you.

 

[fd24]

Refer to the previous post and specifically to the last para. I think it applies to you.

So Shabana Azmi is a liar? Why are you so adamant to say milk is not white. Please give a rational answer as perhaps im missing something?

 

[true_indian]

She told about her husband as well who is famous poet..if peoples with power and money are being discriminated then i wonder what will be the conditions od ordinary muslims..second we are not discussing her acting here but what she feel about india being secular..what u will say about videos above where polic abused/raped muslims and destroy their property..secular police suppose to be unbiased and should protect its peoples instead of abusing them

So Shabana Azmi is a liar? Why are you so adamant to say milk is not white. Please give a rational answer as perhaps im missing something?

Individuals will have prejudices. It's a private property and owners have right to object to certain tenets based on their own criteria. Its not like they asked her to leave the country. She could find another apartment just a couple of blocks to this place.If India as a country opposed to her she would have never become member of Rajya Sabha or a successful actress for that matter. Again, Constitution doesn't discriminate minorities is the definition for secularism. It doesn't mandate individuals of a country to behave a certain way. That would be breaching their private life.

Also Pakistanis, we live in this country we know how it is.

 

[true_indian]

So we can deduce the following: Some Hindus wont rent to Muslims. Some Muslims wont rent to Hindus.
Another nail in the secular we are not story.

But they all live in the same country under the aegis of our constitution. We don't fight every other second. That's pretty much secular to me.

 

[fd24]

Individuals will have prejudices. It's a private property and owners have right to object to certain tenets based on their own criteria. Its not like they asked her to leave the country. She could find another apartment just a couple of blocks to this place.If India as a country opposed to her she would have never become member of Rajya Sabha or a successful actress for that matter. Again, Constitution doesn't discriminate minorities is the definition for secularism. It doesn't mandate individuals of a country to behave a certain way. That would be breaching their private life.

Also Pakistanis, we live in this country we know how it is.

Im not going to base my summation on 1 flimsy piece of evidence regarding Indias status as regards to secular. That would be unfair. My thoughts and mind is based on several other issues of which some have been mentioned. I respect someone saying there is an issue and it does occassionally flares up but when someone digs their heels in saying it never happens then i would object to that.

 

[KS]

So Shabana Azmi is a liar? Why are you so adamant to say milk is not white. Please give a rational answer as perhaps im missing something?

In this case, if she said, she did not get a flat only because she was a Muslim she is not only a liar, but a bigot.

I already gave you the 'rational' answer why she could have been refused a flat. She is a non-vegan. And hell yeah, I was refused many flats due to the same reason but did I cry I am being discriminated because I am a Hindu ?

And another thing going against film-personalities (irrespective of religion) is that they tend to disturb the peace in the night with their partying and that stuff. That is why they usually go for single bungalows.

 

[true_indian]

Im not going to base my summation on 1 flimsy piece of evidence regarding Indias status as regards to secular. That would be unfair. My thoughts and mind is based on several other issues of which some have been mentioned. I respect someone saying there is an issue and it does occassionally flares up but when someone digs their heels in saying it never happens then i would object to that.

Of course there are issues. India is only developing country. As a democracy there are lot of frustrations and a lot of perceived biases. I sometimes abhor India's communal behavior. We try to divide ourselves into so many communities based religion/caste/language etc, etc. But as the economy progressing, these barriers are coming down. Especially among the younger population, the prejudices are lot less compared to previous generation. Well I believe India is moving towards a harmonious society. When you are belly is full, you would go to sleep not go on riots. Indian economic growth is helping India become a better society.


Obviously there are lunatics on either side, they flare up differences. But when was the last time, India had anything close to riots? Its been a decade. Even the Babri Masjid judgment did not evoke any untoward incidents in a country with 900 million Hindus and close to 200 million Muslims? Who says Hindus-Muslims can't live together. We are living it now in a relative peace.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

So we can deduce the following: Some Hindus wont rent to Muslims. Some Muslims wont rent to Hindus.
Another nail in the secular we are not story.

that some is a rare and endangering specious because of modern day education and ability to think beyond what mullaha or priest says.

we have got a constitution and law and order which ensures that all the citizens of India is treated equally.

with more than 80% of Hindus we are a "secular nation" ..the term you guys are afraid of and ran away to a form a Islamic heaven...today our minorities are any day better treated and respected nationally or internationally..any Indian can become a president or PM of India.

 

[Developereo]

You need to look at the context and not fly off the handle at the mere mention of Pakistan or Arabs.

Nobody's "flying off the handle". This is the essence of the Indian troll brigade: making off-topic soapbox rants to the gallery while avoiding the topic. Like I wrote, this will garner praise from fellow Indians, but it does nothing to advance your point in the debate.

If you had been in a proper, real-life debate, as opposed to an internet forum, you would have been ejected long ago.

Like you claim that India wants to convince Arabs of minority treatment? Really!

Do they need to be convinced when their own record is the worst?

Do we care for them so much? Are they such political powerhouse? Don't we see their performance against the tiny Israel?

Indians (and Pakistanis and other Asians) are building their country and doing things those lazy arses can't do themselves. They will be likely riding camels as soon as the oil runs out (or even earlier).

They are not doing any favors by paying a fraction of what they pay to the whites or any other nationality to the immigrant workers who are building and running their countries.

I am talking about your mental gymnastics here with the imagination running wild about even individual Indian companies decision making progress.

And the inability to understand the basic facts about immigration and diaspora and the factors driving them.

Its not that the basic IQ is lacking to understand it. It is the prejudice that prevents being objective about issues.

This whole rant is not only silly, it shows your basic ignorance of business matters and the concpt of relation and image management. Companies, and countries, go to great lengths to present a certain image to current and potential clients.

I would recommend you don't try to make soapbox speeches on this score; it only embarrasses you by exposing your lack of understanding.

I guess even you can't deny that the vast majority go abroad on their own volition, not on "deputation".

So yes, they leave by themselves and find a job where they can. Same as for Pakistanis.

So how does it prove the absurdities that you claimed earlier?

Your passion blinds you to realities. Contrary to your assertions, the vast majority do not go to foreign countries on their own volition -- certainly not to the Gulf which has very strict visa regimens. They have to be explicitly sponsored by companies.

But, then again, why let reality interfere with soapbox rants?

Ever given a thought that this "you" included probably "you" as well?

That is the difference between "you" and "us".

And it is irreconcilable.

You think conversion changed your history.

The "you" in this context was the Hindutva philosophy. The claim was that Hindutva is compatible with secularism because it is tolerant and 'welcoming' of all faiths.

Again, soapbox speeches are no substitute for actual debate.

I have never seen any customer being concerned about the religion of the people sent in to do his work.

Not in the West and from what I hear, not even in the gulf.

I am not responsible for your lack of real world experience. It's not that people go around asking everyone's religion; these facts come out in normal relationships, when things like Christmas, Diwali or Eid approach.

Once again, it's all about image management. You won't learn it from a forum; you have to pay attention to it in real life.

This "you" is the cause of my contempt. Not the change in the way one worships God.

Spare us the revisionist self-righteousness. We all know why you have contempt for "converts" and their "alien" religion.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

In this case, if she said, she did not get a flat only because she was a Muslim she is not only a liar, but a bigot.

I already gave you the 'rational' answer why she could have been refused a flat. She is a non-vegan. And hell yeah, I was refused many flats due to the same reason but did I cry I am being discriminated because I am a Hindu ?

And another thing going against film-personalities (irrespective of religion) is that they tend to disturb the peace in the night with their partying and that stuff. That is why they usually go for single bungalows.

and these house owners are biased against bachelors and un married couples..

one more reason why India is not secular.

 

[Developereo]

And the personal opinion based on on imbibed prejudice shows, yet again.

Sure. You welcome Indian Muslims but not their alien religion. Sophistry of the finest order.

If the Sufis, who were supposed to be peaceful, were 'not' welcomed, how on the holy earth did they manage to live here and 'convert' so many people ? Video conferencing ?

Er, they did their "dirty" work under the protection of those evil Muslim conquerors. N'est-ce pas?

Oh dear...Its just the communalists and Marxists...they obviously cant be secularists..YOu should have understood that since you seem to the self-declared researcher in secularism .

Where did I ever imply that communalists and Marxists were secular? I only listed these three groups as being in a big conspiracy against the valiant Hindutva.

Liar, liar pants on fire.

It was not me but you who brought in Arabs in the first place.



#211

Um. Try this post of yours for the first reference to Arabs:

Sachar committee is in itself one big political drama.

Kudos Mr Khursheed, Sachar can only hold Muslims back | Firstpost

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Indian polic took part in riots by attacking muslims according to indian media..watch it

Ali @ This is terrible video. Look at those old woman who shouted that why Muslims become terrorist. Thats why i said in my previous post that secular principles/laws can only work if those who implement these laws are secular/ neutral. We can see that police here did not play the neutral role and Hindu nationalist leaders will play the same rule in any hindu vs other religion conflicts...bad luck for such secularism without secular peoples which only exist on paper

 

[KS]

and these house owners are biased against bachelors and un married couples..

one more reason why India is not secular.

Evil Hindutva-vadis who will not give flats to bachelors

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Evil Hindutva-vadis who will not give flats to bachelors

It seem you are one of them