Not much has changed for IAF a year after it was outgunned by Pakistan

[Cookie Monster]

The article states...
1) PAF pilots speaking Punjabi bcuz they panicked
2) IAF had no AWACS in the area while PAF did...and yet IAF was still able to "surprise" with Abhinandan's Mig21
3) Though at least this time it doesn't cling to the the idiotic unsubstantiated claim of shooting an F16...the implication is still there.
4) PAF pilots shot their glide bombs in "panic" and hence missed their targets

My question(addressed to Indians) is...don't u guys get tired of pumping out propaganda on a daily basis? The story keeps changing...to spice it up new details are added which of course are never backed up by proof bcuz "sensitive info can't be revealed".

1) PAF pilots did not speak Punjabi in panic...release their recordings or else it's BS.
2) Abhinandan in his Mig 21 was not able to surprise PAF. His radio comm was being jammed...and he was promptly shot down and captured.
3) It's been discussed to death...pics of unfired missiles(all of them) have been released and third party sources have confirmed no F16 was shot down. Not even Abhinandan himself has gone on record to say he shot down an F16...even though he is in India now.
4) PAF released footage of H4's intentionally missing their targets.

Indian media should pump the breaks about inventing their made up stories and u guys should either have ur airforce release proof or if it can't be released due to "security reasons" then u guys should just stay quiet. Modi got his political victory by fooling the Indian population, pinned an award on Abhinandan, and gathered public support. Take solace in Modi's political victory. Don't try to invent a military victory as there was none.

@AMRAAM these kinds of propaganda news are dime a dozen constantly being pumped out for the Indian public. It serves no value to litter PDF with such BS.

 

[Path-Finder]

The article states...
1) PAF pilots speaking Punjabi bcuz they panicked
2) IAF had no AWACS in the area while PAF did...and yet IAF was still able to "surprise" with Abhinandan's Mig21
3) Though at least this time it doesn't cling to the the idiotic unsubstantiated claim of shooting an F16...the implication is still there.
4) PAF pilots shot their glide bombs in "panic" and hence missed their targets

My question(addressed to Indians) is...don't u guys get tired of pumping out propaganda on a daily basis? The story keeps changing...to spice it up new details are added which of course are never backed up by proof bcuz "sensitive info can't be revealed".

1) PAF pilots did not speak Punjabi in panic...release their recordings or else it's BS.
2) Abhinandan in his Mig 21 was not able to surprise PAF. His radio comm was being jammed...and he was promptly shot down and captured.
3) It's been discussed to death...pics of unfired missiles(all of them) have been released and third party sources have confirmed no F16 was shot down. Not even Abhinandan himself has gone on record to say he shot down an F16...even though he is in India now.
4) PAF released footage of H4's intentionally missing their targets.

Indian media should pump the breaks about inventing their made up stories and u guys should either have ur airforce release proof or if it can't be released due to "security reasons" then u guys should just stay quiet. Modi got his political victory by fooling the Indian population, pinned an award on Abhinandan, and gathered public support. Take solace in Modi's political victory. Don't try to invent a military victory as there was none.

@AMRAAM these kinds of propaganda news are dime a dozen constantly being pumped out for the Indian public. It serves no value to litter PDF with such BS.

cheers saved me from reading nonsense, a nation of fake newj is never tired of brain farts.

 

[araz]

Why do you guys even bother to read rubbish like this. Bhai let them saywhat theyhave to say. Technology aside when youface a pilot who is willingto give his life for Allah vs one who loves his life more than anything else the same will be repeated. Thisis not aboutnumerucal superiority it is about teaining, sheer guts, and Imaan. As long as our imaanis strong machines will only have a limited effect.
The other thing is if they have Meteor(allegedly 12 have been ordered) we have PL15s in our service.Lastlya huge disadvantage they have is that even their lovely Yemmmmm KayyyyYaaaais are dependent on kits from USSR whereas JFTis a local product. I know we too depend on China for 42% of our airframe plus engine but plane for plane replacement is going to be a lot more expensive for them than for us. I think we need to move away from 27/02 and prepare for the next round. The one thing where I agree with @Mastan Khan on is that we should not be generous the next time. We have offered them the olive branch and the next time there should be a no holds barred and no one should be allowed to escape. If they are on your sights they should go down. Period.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Induction of new Astra BVR missiles as well as R-77-1 have Begun; IAF chief himself confirmed this yesterday (both have more range against fighters than AIM-120C5)

Why need of Foreign R77-1 when u have Astra which is superior to both C5 and SD 10??

The one thing where I agree with @Mastan Khan on is that we should not be generous the next time. We have offered them the olive branch and the next time there should be a no holds barred and no one should be allowed to escape. If they are on your sights they should go down. Period.

Make no mistake, PAF may not always exercise restraint, warns Air Chief

https://nation.com.pk/28-Feb-2020/m...not-always-exercise-restraint-warns-air-chief

 

[diligence]

A lot has changed:

1) Induction of new Astra BVR missiles as well as R-77-1 have Begun; IAF chief himself confirmed this yesterday (both have more range against fighters than AIM-120C5)

2) More than 400 SDRs have ordered from Rafael (CEO of Rafael confirmed this).
They will be used for both SDRs & ODL.

3) Forward deployment of around 6 Su-30 MKI to Srinagar. After more HAS are constructed an entire sqn may be relocated there

4) First 18 Rafales will be delivered by Apr 2021 and all 36 will be delivered by Apr 2022 which mean when the next war happen in Mar-Apr 2022, IAF will have 2:1 superiorty in AESA equipped jets over PAF as PAF will have only 16 JFT BLK3.

Good, good, good. Good for you, man. Similar claims about MKIs, Bison, and MK2000 were made by Indians prior to Feb 2019 humiliation. You think it was just the lack of range of R-77 thingy that stopped MKIs from taking on the PAF planes over Indian occupied J&K? Why couldn't these MKIs take on the JF-17s and Mirages intruding deep inside the occupied territory?

"Forward deployment of around 6 Su-30 MKI to Srinagar. After more HAS are constructed an entire sqn may be relocated there"
Tha same MKIs that ran away to save their *** when faced with Thunders? I am wondering how long it will take before the entire sqn will find it safe to run away from their base and how many of them would be able to make it to proper India? I leave it at you. BTW, we are really happy that Indians love to live in their own imaginary world. It's win-win situation for both of us.

 

[krash]

Would be interesting to know at what point India actually knew what was going on.

When the DG ISPR told them what had happened in his press conference.

It was a LFE, they were not expecting the sudden-ness of it all. Add EW, brazenness and actual 'intent' to get into a shooting war vs a several times 'bigger', 'better-equipped' force caught them off-guard. They really were not expecting PAF to have the professionalism, technical ability, gall and the guts to undertake the op as they did.

Think of it this way, you are since your childhood, raised to take your enemy as poor, malnutrition-ed and ill-equipped. Even when you enter into the ring, you 'expect' them to react poorly. Then suddenly the poor, malnutrition-ed, ill-equipped adversary blind-folds you, ties your hands together and starts throwing ones and twos at you to the point of leaving you with a bloody mouth, a ruptured eye and a swollen face. This is what happened with IAF on 27th Feb. An entire generation of IAF fighter jockeys will need to go back to school on what PAF is capable of. This is why they got 'entirely' pulled out of action post Abhinandan's arrest.

Hazard of believing in your own lies. They keep tripping over their own selves. It's not even funny anymore.

 

[kursed]

When the DG ISPR told them what had happened in his press conference.



Hazard of believing in your own lies. They keep tripping over their own selves. It's not even funny anymore.

I trust them to not repeat the mistake, though.

 

[Basel]

@The Eagle Bhai, 11 H-4s were fired by PAF or 6 ?

Btw, what a self orgasmic post, i expected better but India never fails to please us.

The article could have mentioned the REAL scenario, Shortfall of IAF, what measures IAF has taken or will take with regards, and how would they plan for future but no, the serial garbage is back, with self pleasing tactics and “Ahmeqon ki jannat”

Can someone here share info about H-2/4 lower part detachment and how far it goes after that??

 

[Wrath]

India has made some progress in moving to acquire fighters, tech and equipment but it is yet to get its hands on any.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP 27 February, 2020 10:04 am IST

View attachment 609679


New Delhi: A year after Pakistan outgunned and outnumbered the Indian Air Force on 27 February through “Ops Swift Retort”, not much has changed on the ground.

Pakistan was armed with better fighter planes, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missiles like AMRAAMs and backed by state-of-the-art SAAB airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), and left the Indian Air Force wanting in many places.

From limitations of the Su 30 MKI radar to pick up enemy fighters properly to the technical issue faced by the Mirage 2000 aircraft over firing their Mica air-to-air missile, the list of the shortcomings that the IAF experienced is long.

If Pakistan were to repeat the “Swift Retort” today, the situation doesn’t look great even a year later.

There is, however, a silver lining — the Rafale fighter jets, to be equipped with better weapons package, especially the Meteor air-to-air missile that tilts the scales in India’s favour against both Pakistan and China, will start arriving May onwards.

Neither Pakistan nor China at present has a missile to counter the Meteor, which has a range of nearly 150 km — it’s much higher than the American AMRAAM that had outgunned the Sukhois with a range of over 70 km.

This means that a Rafale would be able to take out an enemy aircraft 150 km away in air without even having to cross the Indian air space.

But it will take at least a year for the first four Rafales to be completely operationalised with their weapons system.

Also, the much-needed Software Defined Radios (SDR) have finally been ordered from Israel which will help secure communication without fear of jamming.


Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was shot down after he failed to hear command to retreat given by the ground-based command centre because of jamming carried out by the Pakistan Air Force.

India is also in the process of clearing the acquisition of two more PHALCON AWACS, which will help the IAF have round-the-clock eye in the sky.

The lack of more AWACS was felt during the 27 February aerial dual when Pakistan, which operates about 10 such systems, took advantage of the changeover of the IAF’s eye in the sky.

The only actual change that has taken place on the ground is that the MiG 29 has been replaced with the Su 30 MKI as the additional fighter at the Srinagar base that houses the 51 Squadron of the MiG 21 Bisons.

However, plans to permanently base the Su 30 MKI cannot be implemented immediately because the hangars in Srinagar can’t accommodate the giant Russian fighters, defence sources told ThePrint.

This means that the Sukhois will have to fly in from other bases in case of yet another skirmish.


How Pakistan retaliated for Balakot
Around 8:45 am on 27 February, the first signs of a possible attack emerged as Pakistan shut down its civilian airspace and stopped all commercial flights.

About half-an-hour later, multiple Pakistan fighter jets, perfectly timed with the changeover of IAF AWACS, started taking off from different bases.

At that particular moment, only two Su 30 MKI in the south of the Pir Panjal and two upgraded Mirage 2000, north of the mountains, were doing the Combat Air Patrol (CAP).

The Pakistani package of 25 fighters, including the F 16s and the Mirages, made their way towards the LoC but did not cross the mutually agreed 10 km cut-off point for fighters.

A few Pakistani fighters took off in the direction of the international border with Rajasthan in a bid to trick India, just like India had done the previous day.

Leading the Pakistan strike package was the F-16s armed with the AMRAAMs.

The American-built fighters moved towards the south of the Pir Panjal while the Mirages moved towards where the other two Indian fighters were flying.



What went wrong
Sources said the Indian fighters were simply outnumbered.

The Sukhois with their R-77 missiles, which have a range that’s shorter than the AMRAAMs, were no match for the F-16s that had better air-to-air weapons.

Sources said one Sukhoi was fired upon by the F-16s and had to take high-speed maneouvres to outgun the AMRAAMs.

The second Sukhoi too took tactical action keeping in mind that they were told by the Barnala-based Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) that AMRAAMs were being fired.

The second Sukhoi had also failed to properly pick up the enemy fighters through its radars.

On the northern side of the Pir Panjal, the upgraded Mirages on CAP duty were outnumbered completely. They had also faced a technical glitch because of which they could not engage Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with the MICA air-to-air missiles that have a better range than the ones used by PAF in that sector.


Panicked PAF pilots break into Punjabi
Realising that the Indian fighters were outgunned and outnumbered, the Barnala-based IACCS ordered the scrambling of six MiG-21s.

Since the MiGs climbed in the shadow of the Pir Panjal range, Pakistan’s AWAC failed to detect them. The sudden appearance of the MiGs proved to be a blessing for India, as the Pakistani fighters were taken aback.

Panicked Pakistani pilots, who broke into Punjabi rather than sticking to the military codes, fired about 11 H-4 glide-bombs, weighing 1,000 kg each, at Indian military installations, none of which hit the target.

The MiG pilots were then asked to “go hot”, meaning they had to go in for a missile lock on enemy aircraft. But the MiGs soon came within the firing range of the F-16s, and they were asked to “turn cold”, meaning they were to retreat.

However, Wing Commander Varthaman, who had gone too close to the LoC, could not hear the command as Pakistan had jammed radio frequencies.

In his pursuit of locking on to a Pakistani fighter, Varthaman crossed the LoC and was within the firing range of Pakistani fighters.

https://theprint.in/defence/not-muc...ar-after-it-was-outgunned-by-pakistan/371821/

You came with 10 people to fight , I came with 20 people , your short comings , not my cowardness . Just a message to sane Indians .

 

[SIPRA]

.......... Just a message to sane Indians .

Where can we find them?

 

[Raider 21]

India has made some progress in moving to acquire fighters, tech and equipment but it is yet to get its hands on any.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP 27 February, 2020 10:04 am IST

View attachment 609679


New Delhi: A year after Pakistan outgunned and outnumbered the Indian Air Force on 27 February through “Ops Swift Retort”, not much has changed on the ground.

Pakistan was armed with better fighter planes, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missiles like AMRAAMs and backed by state-of-the-art SAAB airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), and left the Indian Air Force wanting in many places.

From limitations of the Su 30 MKI radar to pick up enemy fighters properly to the technical issue faced by the Mirage 2000 aircraft over firing their Mica air-to-air missile, the list of the shortcomings that the IAF experienced is long.

If Pakistan were to repeat the “Swift Retort” today, the situation doesn’t look great even a year later.

There is, however, a silver lining — the Rafale fighter jets, to be equipped with better weapons package, especially the Meteor air-to-air missile that tilts the scales in India’s favour against both Pakistan and China, will start arriving May onwards.

Neither Pakistan nor China at present has a missile to counter the Meteor, which has a range of nearly 150 km — it’s much higher than the American AMRAAM that had outgunned the Sukhois with a range of over 70 km.

This means that a Rafale would be able to take out an enemy aircraft 150 km away in air without even having to cross the Indian air space.

But it will take at least a year for the first four Rafales to be completely operationalised with their weapons system.

Also, the much-needed Software Defined Radios (SDR) have finally been ordered from Israel which will help secure communication without fear of jamming.


Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was shot down after he failed to hear command to retreat given by the ground-based command centre because of jamming carried out by the Pakistan Air Force.

India is also in the process of clearing the acquisition of two more PHALCON AWACS, which will help the IAF have round-the-clock eye in the sky.

The lack of more AWACS was felt during the 27 February aerial dual when Pakistan, which operates about 10 such systems, took advantage of the changeover of the IAF’s eye in the sky.

The only actual change that has taken place on the ground is that the MiG 29 has been replaced with the Su 30 MKI as the additional fighter at the Srinagar base that houses the 51 Squadron of the MiG 21 Bisons.

However, plans to permanently base the Su 30 MKI cannot be implemented immediately because the hangars in Srinagar can’t accommodate the giant Russian fighters, defence sources told ThePrint.

This means that the Sukhois will have to fly in from other bases in case of yet another skirmish.


How Pakistan retaliated for Balakot
Around 8:45 am on 27 February, the first signs of a possible attack emerged as Pakistan shut down its civilian airspace and stopped all commercial flights.

About half-an-hour later, multiple Pakistan fighter jets, perfectly timed with the changeover of IAF AWACS, started taking off from different bases.

At that particular moment, only two Su 30 MKI in the south of the Pir Panjal and two upgraded Mirage 2000, north of the mountains, were doing the Combat Air Patrol (CAP).

The Pakistani package of 25 fighters, including the F 16s and the Mirages, made their way towards the LoC but did not cross the mutually agreed 10 km cut-off point for fighters.

A few Pakistani fighters took off in the direction of the international border with Rajasthan in a bid to trick India, just like India had done the previous day.

Leading the Pakistan strike package was the F-16s armed with the AMRAAMs.

The American-built fighters moved towards the south of the Pir Panjal while the Mirages moved towards where the other two Indian fighters were flying.



What went wrong
Sources said the Indian fighters were simply outnumbered.

The Sukhois with their R-77 missiles, which have a range that’s shorter than the AMRAAMs, were no match for the F-16s that had better air-to-air weapons.

Sources said one Sukhoi was fired upon by the F-16s and had to take high-speed maneouvres to outgun the AMRAAMs.

The second Sukhoi too took tactical action keeping in mind that they were told by the Barnala-based Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) that AMRAAMs were being fired.

The second Sukhoi had also failed to properly pick up the enemy fighters through its radars.

On the northern side of the Pir Panjal, the upgraded Mirages on CAP duty were outnumbered completely. They had also faced a technical glitch because of which they could not engage Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with the MICA air-to-air missiles that have a better range than the ones used by PAF in that sector.


Panicked PAF pilots break into Punjabi
Realising that the Indian fighters were outgunned and outnumbered, the Barnala-based IACCS ordered the scrambling of six MiG-21s.

Since the MiGs climbed in the shadow of the Pir Panjal range, Pakistan’s AWAC failed to detect them. The sudden appearance of the MiGs proved to be a blessing for India, as the Pakistani fighters were taken aback.

Panicked Pakistani pilots, who broke into Punjabi rather than sticking to the military codes, fired about 11 H-4 glide-bombs, weighing 1,000 kg each, at Indian military installations, none of which hit the target.

The MiG pilots were then asked to “go hot”, meaning they had to go in for a missile lock on enemy aircraft. But the MiGs soon came within the firing range of the F-16s, and they were asked to “turn cold”, meaning they were to retreat.

However, Wing Commander Varthaman, who had gone too close to the LoC, could not hear the command as Pakistan had jammed radio frequencies.

In his pursuit of locking on to a Pakistani fighter, Varthaman crossed the LoC and was within the firing range of Pakistani fighters.

https://theprint.in/defence/not-muc...ar-after-it-was-outgunned-by-pakistan/371821/

Gosh they still don't get it. F-16s were backing the strike package, not part of them.

 

[Tom_Cruise]

A lot has changed:
4) First 18 Rafales will be delivered by Apr 2021 and all 36 will be delivered by Apr 2022 which mean when the next war happen in Mar-Apr 2022, IAF will have 2:1 superiorty in AESA equipped jets over PAF as PAF will have only 16 JFT BLK3.

Do you mind posting all the lottery numbers and global stock market trends until 2022 as well?

Thanks in advance

 

[Mighty Lion]

Why need of Foreign R77-1 when u have Astra which is superior to both C5 and SD 10?

Stop gap measure

 

[North Star]

Stop gap measure

Beats me how a nation that hasnt even developed a short ranged heat seeker air to air missile, is going to build one of the best long range radar guided air to air missile.

 

[PradoTLC]

Pakistan was armed with better fighter planes, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missiles like AMRAAMs and backed by state-of-the-art SAAB airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), and left the Indian Air Force wanting in many places

and much better pilots.....

A lot has changed:

1) Induction of new Astra BVR missiles as well as R-77-1 have Begun; IAF chief himself confirmed this yesterday (both have more range against fighters than AIM-120C5)

2) More than 400 SDRs have ordered from Rafael (CEO of Rafael confirmed this).
They will be used for both SDRs & ODL.

3) Forward deployment of around 6 Su-30 MKI to Srinagar. After more HAS are constructed an entire sqn may be relocated there

4) First 18 Rafales will be delivered by Apr 2021 and all 36 will be delivered by Apr 2022 which mean when the next war happen in Mar-Apr 2022, IAF will have 2:1 superiorty in AESA equipped jets over PAF as PAF will have only 16 JFT BLK3.

what about your sub par pilots?....

they needs lots of training?.. last time they fell in a PAF trap?..