Not more Rafales, IAF may choose Gripens or F-16s

[A.P. Richelieu]

What will happen to kaveri if the rafael deal is cancelled?

There is no plan to cancel the Rafale deal, so the Kaveri activity will continue.
What is discussed is whether more batches should be added, and apparently
there is no discussion on this within IAF at the moment.

 

[Jungibaaz]

If this is to be believed, there are only two semi-justifiable motivations for using such a 'diverse' mix of platforms in the IAF. But really, both of these arguments are quite weak. To have Rafale, MKI, Mig-29, Mirage 2k, Tejas and Jaguars was bad enough to cause a logistical nightmare, but now F-16 too. Apart from possibly using this to come between Pakistan, our F-16s and our suppliers, more platforms for the IAF seems like a bad idea. Procurement costs for an aircraft are only a fraction of the total cost to an airforce for inducting an aircraft and using it, you have :supplies, spares, infrastructure, maintenance cost and facilities, specialised training for said particular platform etc.

 

[ashok321]

Gripen may not be available to India:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2017/09/01/mattis-reportedly-threatens-swedish-defense-cooperation-over-nuclear-treaty/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DFN DNR 9/1/17&utm_term=Editorial - Daily News Roundup


Mattis reportedly threatens Swedish defense cooperation over nuclear treaty

If the US stops its defense co-operation, the GE engine issue may crop up, beside other American aviation electronics.

The national Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheterin reported this week that Swedish officials are upset by the letter, sent to Swedish Defence Minister Peter Hultqvist, which indicated defense industrial cooperation between the two nations could be endangered if Sweden signs onto the treaty, as is expected.

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Gripen may not be available to India:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2017/09/01/mattis-reportedly-threatens-swedish-defense-cooperation-over-nuclear-treaty/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DFN DNR 9/1/17&utm_term=Editorial - Daily News Roundup


Mattis reportedly threatens Swedish defense cooperation over nuclear treaty

If the US stops its defense co-operation, the GE engine issue may crop up, beside other American aviation electronics.

Is this the end of Gripen? What would happen to the current Gripen deal with Brazil and proposed one for India?

@A.P. Richelieu

 

[Hulk]

A serious topic. At times we had good discussion on such topics, real benefit analysis. Now all we got is trolls. They have no intention of any worthy discussions. Mods are not handling trolls well. It's a defense forum try to maintain the standards please. Some of these stupid idiots should be banned for life.

 

[illusion8]

There are plenty of media speculations, and this is one of them. There is a RFI for single engine aircrafts very strictly under the made in India option.

Tata and adani have MOUs with LM and grippen to manufacture their parts locally and the media has put 2 and 2 together.

What I like about this RFI is that the timelines have been clearly defined.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Is this the end of Gripen? What would happen to the current Gripen deal with Brazil and proposed one for India?

@A.P. Richelieu

Sweden signing does not change anything at the moment.
The US is well aware of Sweden's stance here.
It just means that we cannot join NATO without backing out of such a treaty.
The current government is against joining NATO,
and while there is a significant minority for joining NATO, the majority is still against it.

The main effect of Sweden signing, would be that the US would not be considering joint exercises. Right now there is the largest exercise in Sweden for many years, and US ground troops will be deployed on Swedish territory for the first time ever.

That will not happen again if Sweden signs.

The US has no reason whatsoever to endangering their northern flank by weakening Sweden.

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Sweden signing does not change anything at the moment.
The US is well aware of Sweden's stance here.
It just means that we cannot join NATO without backing out of such a treaty.
The current government is against joining NATO,
and while there is a significant minority for joining NATO, the majority is still against it.

The main effect of Sweden signing, would be that the US would not be considering joint exercises. Right now there is the largest exercise in Sweden for many years, and US ground troops will be deployed on Swedish territory for the first time ever.

That will not happen again if Sweden signs.

The US has no reason whatsoever to endangering their northern flank by weakening Sweden.

Would US deny US made subsystems that go into Gripen, if Sweden does not toe US' line? Does that not mean end of Gripen sales to Brazil and India which by default would now go to US instead.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Would US deny US made subsystems that go into Gripen, if Sweden does not toe US' line? Does that not mean end of Gripen sales to Brazil and India which by default would now go to US instead.

What is at stake is joint exercises.

If the US stops US subsystems, obviously Sweden will stop selling stuff to the US.
Many US equipment like F/A-18, F-15 are built using Swedish parts.
Other stuff are built in the US under a license, which would be stopped.
Contracts would be broken, opening up for severe penalties.
That is why such actions have not been mentioned.

If the US would screw things up, then Sweden, Brazil would choose anything but US equipment

 

[TheBlackCoat]

What is at stake is joint exercises.

If the US stops US subsystems, obviously Sweden will stop selling stuff to the US.
Many US equipment like F/A-18, F-15 are built using Swedish parts.
Other stuff are built in the US under a license, which would be stopped.
Contracts would be broken, opening up for severe penalties.
That is why such actions have not been mentioned.

If the US would screw things up, then Sweden, Brazil would choose anything but US equipment

US is not dependent on Sweden for any of its fighters but Sweden is dependent on US for its Gripen.

Brazil has already rejected RAFALEs. What other alternatives are you alluding to other than the US fighters.

Expect US F/A-18 to make a comeback in Brazil to replace Gripen.

http://www.ibtimes.com/brazil-says-...-dassault-not-victory-yet-boeing-saab-1510708

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

US is not dependent on Sweden for any of its fighters but Sweden is dependent on US for its Gripen.

Brazil has already rejected RAFALEs. What other alternatives are you alluding to other than the US fighters.

Expect US F/A-18 to make a comeback in Brazil to replace Gripen.

http://www.ibtimes.com/brazil-says-...-dassault-not-victory-yet-boeing-saab-1510708

US fighters are using SAAB equipment. Here is one example:
http://saab.com/air/electronic-warfare/countermeasure-dispenser-systems/bol-fa-18/

Other examples is the Excalibur GPS controlled round, which manufactured in the US under a license.

They can certainly be redesigned to use US equipment, but that is going to take time and money.

If the US stops engine deliveries and breaks the contract, the US will be sued through WTO
for several Billion dollars, and Gripen will be redesigned to use a European Engine and other stuff.
That is asking for a trade war with the European Union.

As for Brazil, this would be considered an insult, and it is not unlikely, they buy Russian, or even Chinese to get even with the US.
OR sue the US, and ask for them to pay for Rafales,as compensation.

Since noone is even discussing this, I suggest you stop fantasizing.

 

[Daghalodi]

There is no plan to cancel the Rafale deal, so the Kaveri activity will continue.
What is discussed is whether more batches should be added, and apparently
there is no discussion on this within IAF at the moment.

If IAF is indeed moving towards a single fighter plane dont you think tejas and kaveri dont even stand a chance!!

 

[TheBlackCoat]

US fighters are using SAAB equipment. Here is one example:
http://saab.com/air/electronic-warfare/countermeasure-dispenser-systems/bol-fa-18/

Other examples is the Excalibur GPS controlled round, which manufactured in the US under a license.

They can certainly be redesigned to use US equipment, but that is going to take time and money.

If the US stops engine deliveries and breaks the contract, the US will be sued through WTO
for several Billion dollars, and Gripen will be redesigned to use a European Engine and other stuff.
That is asking for a trade war with the European Union.

As for Brazil, this would be considered an insult, and it is not unlikely, they buy Russian, or even Chinese to get even with the US.
OR sue the US, and ask for them to pay for Rafales,as compensation.

Since noone is even discussing this, I suggest you stop fantasizing.

It is much easier for the US to replace the Swedish components from its fighters than Sweden to build a fighter based on a new EU engine. It is too risky for India to go for Gripens when they have the option to go with the US F-16s. Once India goes for the US F-16s, Brazil will follow suit. Also, If Gripen goes with Eu engine then it loses the engine commonality India's Fighter and would be even less attractive.

If the US stops engine deliveries and breaks the contract, the US will be sued through WTO
for several Billion dollars, and Gripen will be redesigned to use a European Engine and other stuff.
That is asking for a trade war with the European Union.

Is there any contract that forces US to deliver engines to Sweden for the Indian fighter bid? Not yet. So there is no legal case here.

As for Brazil, this would be considered an insult, and it is not unlikely, they buy Russian, or even Chinese to get even with the US.
OR sue the US, and ask for them to pay for Rafales,as compensation.

Did Brazil evaluate any Russian Fighters? No

The less said about Chinese fighters the better. China is dependent and procuring Russian fighters and engines.

 

[Gurjot.S]

This project will kill tejas.

 

[kaykay]

This project will kill tejas.

Don't talk like Pakistanis here. 123 Tejas mk1/mk1A are already ordered with or without these aircrafts.

If at all, these will just fill the MMRCA gap where originally we needed 126 MMRCA.