Norway blocking China's access to Arctic

[silko]

let's not delude ourselves into thinking that georgia would have fared better if it had joined nato prior to the war with russia. nato exists to channel european (and turkish - how weird) money and manpower into american wars, not the other way around. if nato members dared to drag americans into unwanted wars, americans would abolish the organization. american is the *user*; norway is the *loser* in this relationship (as is turkey, one might add)

how is China going to be able to fight a war against Norway. it is completely impossible, your navy isn't strong enough. Georgia is off-topic and the Georgian Russian conflict was based on something else. it's not about dragging america into unwanted wars, NATO isn't "protect america and forget yourself league" it is a team league who watches out for each other.

i dont know why you add Turkey into the conversation

and to safriz, because some students choose to go to USA to get a better education isn't immigration. it is in most cases exchange.

 

[iajj]

how is China going to be able to fight a war against Norway. it is completely impossible, your navy isn't strong enough. Georgia is off-topic and the Georgian Russian conflict was based on something else. it's not about dragging america into unwanted wars, NATO isn't "protect america and forget yourself league" it is a team league who watches out for each other.

i dont know why you add Turkey into the conversation

and to safriz, because some students choose to go to USA to get a better education isn't immigration. it is in most cases exchange.

i didn't say china was going to invade norway. someone else said that. within a decade of so china may acquire the ability to project naval power to that corner of the earth, but even then china shouldn't - because it is russia's backyard and china should respect russia's right to dispense justice in its neighborhood.

you are the one who brought nato into the conversation. i am assuming when you said china would be dead you were referring to retaliation from the nato, not norway. if you didn't imply nato, you are stupider than i thought, and you have my apologies for bringing in nato and turkey; if you did imply nato, you already have my answers: nato's european and turk members serve american causes and not the other way around; if nato's european and turk members dare to drag u.s. down, u.s. would abolish nato. it is that simple. china shouldn't ever seek to punish nato's european and turk members even after china's arm grows that long - not because they are nato members but because it is russia's turf and it is russia's prerogative to discipline them.

i only added turkey for the sake of completeness: nato members this side of the atlantic ocean aren't all europeans. turkics, despite their century-long endeavor, are still excluded from european affairs and turkic blood is still not considered european. i just didn't want to miss anything from the list of nato members

 

[silko]

i didn't say china was going to invade norway. someone else said that. within a decade of so china may acquire the ability to project naval power to that corner of the earth, but even then china shouldn't - because it is russia's backyard and china should respect russia's right to dispense justice in its neighborhood.

you are the one who brought nato into the conversation. i am assuming when you said china would be dead you were referring to retaliation from the nato, not norway. if you didn't imply nato, you are stupider than i thought, and you have my apologies for bringing in nato and turkey; if you did imply nato, you already have my answers: nato's european and turk members serve american causes and not the other way around; if nato's european and turk members dare to drag u.s. down, u.s. would abolish nato. it is that simple. china shouldn't ever seek to punish nato's european and turk members even after china's arm grows that long - not because they are nato members but because it is russia's turf and it is russia's prerogative to discipline them.

i only added turkey for the sake of completeness: nato members this side of the atlantic ocean aren't all europeans. turkics, despite their century-long endeavor, are still excluded from european affairs and turkic blood is still not considered european. i just didn't want to miss anything from the list of nato members

China can aqquire, but the distance makes it impossible for China to show power in that corner of the world. i brought in NATO, yes. but not because i wanted to talk about Turkey and Norway only, remember there are many other European countries to that is there to help, not USA only. and yeah, if USA signed a treaty to protect a country it does. it isn't a "you made a stupid war so we have to pay the money now " they wouldnt made NATO in the first place then.

i didn't bring in Turkey, i brought NATO. i don't care what Europeans think i am or not. when it's war you only think about defeating the enemy. we're not excluded from European affairs either. we aren't accepted into EU. Europe doesn't assemble around EU. Norway isn't a EU member, does that mean that Norway isn't European?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China can aqquire, but the distance makes it impossible for China to show power in that corner of the world. i brought in NATO, yes. but not because i wanted to talk about Turkey and Norway only, remember there are many other European countries to that is there to help, not USA only. and yeah, if USA signed a treaty to protect a country it does. it isn't a "you made a stupid war so we have to pay the money now " they wouldnt made NATO in the first place then.

i didn't bring in Turkey, i brought NATO. i don't care what Europeans think i am or not. when it's war you only think about defeating the enemy. we're not excluded from European affairs either. we aren't accepted into EU. Europe doesn't assemble around EU. Norway isn't a EU member, does that mean that Norway isn't European?

Norway is not a member of EU, but it is still geographically an European nation, but the same cannot be applied for Turkey.

I think Turkey should look to improve the relationship with China, not just exclusively doing the bidding for Nato.

 

[silko]

Norway is not a member of EU, but it is still geographically an European nation, but the same cannot be applied for Turkey.

I think Turkey should look to improve the relationship with China, not just exclusively doing the bidding for Nato.

a bit off topic... we should keep on with the Norway China relations in this debate

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Norway is not a member of EU, but it is still geographically an European nation, but the same cannot be applied for Turkey.

I think Turkey should look to improve the relationship with China, not just exclusively doing the bidding for Nato.

Turkey has much more to gain by having good relations with NATO as they are very close to europe themselves as well . It has been clearly seen with the way Turkey has emerged as a strong economy , democracy .

Turkey also must support their Turkic uighur brothers in their struggle for freedom from China .

Now dont attack me .

 

[silko]

Turkey has much more to gain by having good relations with NATO as they are very close to europe themselves as well . It has been clearly seen with the way Turkey has emerged as a strong economy , democracy .

Turkey also must support their Turkic uighur brothers in their struggle for freedom from China .

Now dont attack me .

i'm not picking sides here, but the last sentence you wrote is pretty much a flame thread sentence. please edit it...

this thread is about Norway and China. not Turkey.

 

[iajj]

China can aqquire, but the distance makes it impossible for China to show power in that corner of the world. i brought in NATO, yes. but not because i wanted to talk about Turkey and Norway only, remember there are many other European countries to that is there to help, not USA only. and yeah, if USA signed a treaty to protect a country it does. it isn't a "you made a stupid war so we have to pay the money now " they wouldnt made NATO in the first place then.

i didn't bring in Turkey, i brought NATO. i don't care what Europeans think i am or not. when it's war you only think about defeating the enemy. we're not excluded from European affairs either. we aren't accepted into EU. Europe doesn't assemble around EU. Norway isn't a EU member, does that mean that Norway isn't European?

there is no proof that america has ever entered a war simply because of treaty obligations. your notion that a great power should be bound by papers it originally signed to bind dependencies is crazy. i am not suggesting americans in particular are of bad faith. i am saying ALL historical european great powers would be in such a situation. the only example that ever came close was wilhelmine germany and dual monarchy, and historians still dispute who actually started the great war. i think austrians did and brought germany into the war even though austria was the junior partner of the alliance, but austria was still a great power at the time. so austro-german alliance was very different from the military alliances and dependencies u.s. cultivated in europe and middle east: no piece of paper can ever drag an unwilling great power into a small nation's defense. european and turk countries are delusional if they think nato was set up for their sake.

and as i said, i only mentioned turkics for the sake of completeness. turkics aren't europeans but are part of the nato organization this side of the atlantic that are rightfully russia's domain and thus not under u.s. protection despite their nominal nato affiliation. it is not fair to either europeans or turkics if i say only some of them should submit to russian justice and some others need not.

 

[iajj]

Norway is not a member of EU, but it is still geographically an European nation, but the same cannot be applied for Turkey.

I think Turkey should look to improve the relationship with China, not just exclusively doing the bidding for Nato.

i strongly disagree and object to any proposal that china develop relations with nordic, baltic, balkan or caucasian countries (turkics fit the latter two categories). all great nations must respect each other and china should subsidize a russian effort to reassert itself on its own turf. and afterwards what china will need of turkics china can ask russia to ask.

edit: to honor the turk's wish to bring the topic back to norway and china: ...afterwards, what china will need of norway china can ask russia to ask

 

[Jiang]

Well Norway is really just a puppet state of US, they don't have much to offer but the Nobel peace prize has been overwhelmingly used to advance globalist agenda.

 

[iajj]

Well Norway is really just a puppet state of US, they don't have much to offer but the Nobel peace prize has been overwhelmingly used to advance globalist agenda.

hmm, "globalist" is an interesting term. i prefer to use "universalist" because "globalist" has a rhetorical and political undertone that is conspiratorial, because i think there is no hidden plot behind norway's nobel prize thing: it is plainly, openly, completely an american instrument. feel free to disagree

 

[Alpery]

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[below_freezing]

i strongly disagree and object to any proposal that china develop relations with nordic, baltic, balkan or caucasian countries (turkics fit the latter two categories). all great nations must respect each other and china should subsidize a russian effort to reassert itself on its own turf. and afterwards what china will need of turkics china can ask russia to ask.

edit: to honor the turk's wish to bring the topic back to norway and china: ...afterwards, what china will need of norway china can ask russia to ask

US should stick with North America then, but that doesn't happen.

We need a nuclear deterrent such that no one would ever even think of using nukes against China. The US still talks about nuking China, because some hardline neocons think that the US can afford a 50% reduction in population and 90% reduction in GDP in exchange for China's 90% reduction in population and 99% reduction in GDP.

What we must strive for is a 70% reduction capability in US population, 90% reduction capability in Korean and Japanese populations, as well as a 40% reduction capability on India, which would require at least 2000 warheads.

 

[iajj]

US should stick with North America then, but that doesn't happen.

We need a nuclear deterrent such that no one would ever even think of using nukes against China. The US still talks about nuking China, because some hardline neocons think that the US can afford a 50% reduction in population and 90% reduction in GDP in exchange for China's 90% reduction in population and 99% reduction in GDP.

What we must strive for is a 70% reduction capability in US population, 90% reduction capability in Korean and Japanese populations, as well as a 40% reduction capability on India, which would require at least 2000 warheads.

nuclear deterrent will be a pillar of an independent europe (the part of europe that doesn't rightfully belong to russia, of course). my harsh criticism of germans and their current policies notwithstanding, i must say that i deeply desire the revival of german power, and a nuclear strike force is indispensible to a resurgent germany.

the most expedient way to revive and even accomplish all germany's stragegic goals is a merger with france (which gives germany nuclear arms immediately) and a negotiated border in northern and eastern europe that will allow peaceful coexistence of russian sphere of influence and franco-german lebensraum. norway should rightfully be shared in this scenario, and turkey need not be.

 

[silko]

Well Norway is really just a puppet state of US, they don't have much to offer but the Nobel peace prize has been overwhelmingly used to advance globalist agenda.

Norway actually is not a puppet state, it has it's own independent foreign policy. it has pissed of US in several occasions.

we have oil gas and fish. wich many asian countries are after. dont look at this country as a weak country!