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No more death penalty for rapists in State of new Madina

Rapist should be given

  • Electrocution

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lethal dose of Poison under jury and victim's family supervision

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chemical Castration (pardoning)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
What about confession? Confession of rape alone can lead to Hudood application.


Prophet saw applied hudood in one case and that was of confession

I also disagree that DNA cannot b as strong as 4 witnesses.. It can be even stronger depending upon degree of match

People arguing against DNA are not fully aware of science

And if tanks can replace horses then DNA can replace 4 witnesses
 
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What about confession? Confession of rape alone can lead to Hudood application.
i am not sure, i am not expert but i think it can..

however, you need to understand pakistani confessions..99% of them are forced and 99% of them say they confessed under fear of punjab police danda in court
 
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the basis on which your PM has proposed castration, on the same basis, death penalty can also be carried out under tazir (you will only castrated when there remains no ambiguity, right?)

in the context of current rape incident,
things are moving fast, one has confessed, one on the run -- DNA matched, geo fencing proved presence of culprits etc.,

This also goes to Hirabah, the punishment:
1) qisas or diya for bodily injury (either eye for eye or monetary compensation)
2) amputation of limbs for harassing & stealing.
3) death penalty via stoning
4) crucifixion as a warning to others.

Islam is very clear on this,
the dilemma is the EU and their paid ngo aunties+ our useless PM and those who are thanking PM on twitter.
ok, sir, i believe i made it very clear that tazir cannot be harsher punishment then hadood, it is pretty straightforward, dont know why you dont get it..

also its pretty amazing that you think death penalty is equal in severity to chemical castration in repeated offenders..

pakistan everyone looks at stuff with poltics, it always amazed me how the country has survived for so long
 
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And if tanks can replace horses then DNA can replace 4 witnesses
can it be planted? by growing from sample in lab?
as if someone has your finger prints, it can be planted (though need some system)
though I think Sharia courts must take these as form of evidences too..
 
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Hadood/death penalty requires four witness..there is no alternative to this.

In raysat madeena no "tazeez" punishment above hadood can be degreed...

You understand the delimma now???

If you dont you are either dumb or political ..

Issues is rapist mostly walk free in pakistan. If you comb through the news you will see 100s per day with 96% being poltical scumbags who pay off the police

The hudood law on which you are basing your argument is for consensual - - - - - while Zina biljabr attracts nothing less than death penalty. Moreover child abuse and sodomy could also fetch capital punishment if the state desires so.
 
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Hadood/death penalty requires four witness..there is no alternative to this.

In raysat madeena no "tazeez" punishment above hadood can be degreed...

You understand the delimma now???

If you dont you are either dumb or political ..

Issues is rapist mostly walk free in pakistan. If you comb through the news you will see 100s per day with 96% being poltical scumbags who pay off the police

The hudood law on which you are basing your argument is for consensual - - - - - while Zina biljabr attracts nothing less than death penalty. Moreover child abuse and sodomy could also fetch capital punishment if the state desires so.
 
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can it be planted? by growing from sample in lab?
as if someone has your finger prints, it can be planted (though need some system)
though I think Sharia courts must take these as form of evidences too..


Its called chain of custody that is looked into while accepting such evidence. Basically it ensures that sample was not tempered. Its very unlikely that police has planted accused semen any ways but if its hair or skin cells chain of custody shud b documented and ensured by court
 
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i am not sure, i am not expert but i think it can..

however, you need to understand pakistani confessions..99% of them are forced and 99% of them say they confessed under fear of punjab police danda in court

The issue here is Zina (consentual) vs Zina (bil Jabr involving consent of one partner).

Zina:
There is no disagreement on the requirement of 4 witnesses to prove zina between consenting couple. This makes proving the crime extremely difficult, unless the couple chooses to commit it in front of public, or uploads the video on internet (in current times). The reason to make proving zina so difficult is that Allah wants to give His creation plenty of chances to repent for a sin he/ she committed privately. (Some hadiths also suggest that even Prophet (PBUH) gave ample chances to someone to not disclose who wanted to confess).

Zina bil Jabr:
In one of the cases, Federal Shariat Court has already concluded that rape is not ordinary Zina, but it's a form of Fasad fil Ardh/ Hirabah.

Why it's considered Hirabah, because according to one tradition, four witnesses were not required. Check this out:

When a woman went out for prayer at dawn, a man attacked her on the way and raped her. She shouted but the rapist escaped. When another man came by, she complained: “That man did such and such to me.” And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: “That man did such and such to me.” They went and seized the man whom they thought had raped her and brought him to her. She said: “Yes, this is the man.” Then they brought him to the Messenger of God. When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had raped her stood up and said: “Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her.” He (the Prophet) said to her: “Go away, for God has forgiven you.” But he told the man some good words [Abū Dāwūd said: meaning the man who was seized], and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: “Stone him to death.”

Now if you look at the above report, there are few things which are quite clear when Prophet (PBUH) awarded stonning sentence (and was about to award a sentence to the first accused):

1 - No four witnesses were required and woman's statement was considered true
2 - Circumstantial evidence was accepted (when other men went towards the way where the victim pointed out, they found a man who clearly resembled the actual culprit otherwise the woman wouldn't have confused the accused with the culprit)
3 - It is not mentioned, but anyone can easily ascertain that the first accused's clarification wasn't taken into consideration. It is beyond imagination that a person who didn't even commit the crime wouldn't have said anything in his defence.
4 - The accused (and later the culprit) was stonned.
5 - The woman was pardoned and Qadhaf wasn't applied to her on wrong testimony that could have resulted in the death of an innocent.

In current times, it is very difficult to imagine that a rape will not carry a circumstantial evidence. For example, a lady accuses a man that he raped her in his home is very difficult to accept. Circumstantial evidence suggests that she went to his house (who is na Mahram in the first place) and spent time alone with him. This gives a hint that she willingly went to his house. Similarly, she is found in a hotel room, of course she has a lot to answer for. If she is raped inside her own home, then of course someone has broken into her house when she was alone, didn't open the door by herself. A plenty of circumstantial evidences can be collected.

The rape cases that are being reported in Pakistan, majority have plenty of evidence to suggest that 4 witness requirement doesn't apply. For example, in the current case of motorway, what is the reason to not accept woman's testimony? She was on her way, her car broken down, evidence suggested that she called police for help. She even called her relatives.. her children were with her, she and her children were found with severe wounds.. What is the reason that her testimony should be rejected just on the basis of the requirement of 4 witnesses when the above tradition clearly proves otherwise?

In other cases, a lady was returning from a marriage ceremony.. or someone was inside her home with her father and other family members while she is raped.. or someone is found dead after being raped.. these are clear examples of what's going on.. Circumstances clear many doubts and in the cases of rapes currently occuring, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that crimes have happened that do not come under ordinary zina.
 
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Its called chain of custody that is looked into while accepting such evidence. Basically it ensures that sample was not tempered. Its very unlikely that police has planted accused semen any ways but if its hair or skin cells chain of custody shud b documented and ensured by court
that is the main thing... our agencies/department should be competent/fair enough.. have your heard the case where brothers were declared innocent after they have already been hanged 3-4 years ago..
@Hiraa @PakSword
and this... just was sent for 5 days but had spent 6 years in prison...
 
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that is the main thing... our agencies/department should be competent/fair enough.. have your heard the case where brothers were declared innocent after they have already been hanged 3-4 years ago..
@Hiraa @PakSword


Sir ager sample is semen collection is by Dr from victim or his or her clothes handed over (time stamped) to forensic science staff who takes it promptly to lab (time stamp biometrics) and then a separate person runs it ASAP and comes up with DNA MATCH. It's rock solid hang the b@stard

If on other hand sample is a hair ON CLOTHES handed over to local SHO who kept it for 3 days and than it turns up in lab... Proceed with other evidence and disregard DNA



That's what court is for to look at evidence
 
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from strictly islamic point of view

1. there are two laws, hadood and tazir
2. Hadood are the strictest punishment and are fixed in islamic jurd, while tazir is later added through consensus
3. tazir cannot be stricter than hadood
4. Hadood requires minimum shadat/a very high degree of evidence/witness. this is minimum two for other crimes and 4 for sex related crimes

5. DNA evidence and other circumstantial evidence cannot replace witness evidence for punishment as strict as death penalty.
anyone who has studied forensics knows that DNA collections and processing can have errors. it is not 100%. two honest witness that are judged(on facts) is more reliable then DNA evidence. this doesnt not mean DNA evidence cannot be used to judge someone, it means it cannot be used to impose the strictest possible judgement which is had.

remember law intends to avoid any innocence put to death even if that means letting few guilty people let free

therefore, unless evidence is strong death penalty cannot be imposed no matter what. so the liberals are right in this case

same is true for death penalty in case of murder, even if single family members forgives the murderer, hud is not imposed, even if 20 other members say yes to it..islamic law seemingly favours not hanging people, as this seems to be a very lenient..now this doesnt mean tazir is not imposed, even if the famly member forgives someone , you can sentence them to life without parole

This is incorrect. You are not required to provide 4 witnesses for rape, that condition is limited to adultery cases.
 
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Death penalty is fine, but not the ultimate solution to the problems leading to harassment and rape. As for public hangings, I’m totally against them in this day and age, the optics of this are exceptionally poor. You can either have a modern state that prescribed modern solution to problems or you can choose to follow religious doctrine by the harshest letter which includes public hangings, stonings etc. But then please also say goodbye to any dreams of foreign investment, diplomacy and image building, as well as tourists. No traveller wants to explore natural wonders amongst swinging corpses. Take your pick, you can either have the world we live in which can tolerate the death penalty and chemical castration, or your can have your ideal in which public hanging are had. It’s hard to do both.
 
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and then a separate person runs it ASAP and comes up with DNA MATCH. It's rock solid hang the b@stard
that is the main thing. Our politicians don't 'believe' in NAB as they consider it bias. I know DNA is a solid evidence but we need to make the process, irrefutable. Forensic lab,teams, must be independent of police. Point is if wrong person is punished, it will be a joke later. Anyway, I agree, hang the rapist at every cost. No castration and no imprisonment.
 
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Death penalty is fine, but not the ultimate solution to the problems leading to harassment and rape. As for public hangings, I’m totally against them in this day and age, the optics of this are exceptionally poor. You can either have a modern state that prescribed modern solution to problems or you can choose to follow religious doctrine by the harshest letter which includes public hangings, stonings etc. But then please also say goodbye to any dreams of foreign investment, diplomacy and image building, as well as tourists. No traveller wants to explore natural wonders amongst swinging corpses. Take your pick, you can either have the world we live in which can tolerate the death penalty and chemical castration, or your can have your ideal in which public hanging are had. It’s hard to do both.

Yeah tbh, i'm not a fan of the hanging being public. It could be private and aired on the News with a warning before hand - if they want to have the impact.
 
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that is the main thing. Our politicians don't 'believe' in NAB as they consider it bias. I know DNA is a solid evidence but we need to make the process, irrefutable. Forensic lab,teams, must be independent of police. Point is if wrong person is punished, it will be a joke later. Anyway, I agree, hang the rapist at every cost. No castration and no imprisonment.



Forensic lab procedures shud be transparent and verifiable. They can use biometrics at crucial steps..

Its not much.. Can easily b done just that no body has bothered to look into it
 
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