No country for brave men

[ice_man]

interesting stuff.....

 

[Karachiite]

I hate this Aamir Liaqat guy with his fake degrees. I think he's the same guy that ordered the killings of Ahmadis on live tv and some of his followers did just that.

 

[Skies]

Before hanging the killer, try to make him understand that killing some one for blasphemy is wrong, or try to make him admit that it was his wrong deed to kill Salman Taseer. And if he asked for forgiveness then you may think for his remission with the condition that he will campaign against blasphemy law in his whole life.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

I can answer to the non muslim but i won't coz i m afraid it wil heart their feeling Loving of our Prophet (PBUH) more then anyone is our faith if any muslim disagree with me i will discuss with him and not with a non muslim.

TARIQ

 

[AHMED85]

but you can see the dramas

Alfa Bravo Charlee

 

[Solomon2]

I specifically used the words powerful and resourceful to indicate the rich and corrupt. The laws should be made and implemented as such that no one should think of violating them, regardless of their social status or background...Pakistan does have a constitutional position for an attorney General

It isn't the same thing. Some laws are important to enforce and some aren't. Attorney Generals subject to election can make the difference between someone rich and powerful who can bribe his way out of a trial and prosecuting someone poor beggar who needs a dollar just to survive.

- and I do not understand how the Army fits into the topic at hand ,so I will not say much on that.

My understanding is that the Army and ISI can intervene in civilian trials as they please.

...the Chief of the Army Staff is Appointed by the Prime Minister, and since the COAS represents the entire army,theoretically that puts the Army under the civilian oversight.

That doesn't sound like much accountability to me, nor does it to Pakistan's own Prime Ministers: note that one of the Wikileaks cables actually quotes a former PM as claiming that the U.S. appoints the Army Chief!

America's Founding Fathers realized very quickly the need for detailed oversight to answer their questions of how money is spent and how battles were fought so even before independence the Continental Congress appointed Inspector Generals to report back to them. Pakistan's IGs are instead appointed by the Army Chief, so as near as I can tell there is no civilian accountability if, say, the Army or ISI choose to intervene in civilian courts.

- the Army intervenes because there is a vacuum left by the civilian governments due to their inapt governance, and someone has to fill that vacuum. The day we have a sincere, credible and a strong headed government, the Army will have no choice but to retreat.

Which gives the Army a big incentive to fight against there ever being a truly competent civilian government, wouldn't you say?

The reforms Pakistan needs can't happen all at once, then. You're going to have to increase accountability before you can actually have effective enforcement.

 

[metro]

Your comment is silly but I will answer it in the hopes that you are genuinely interested to know the answer...

Allah's law is to be implemented by mankind... Allah did not say that He himself will come and sort out the enemies alone rather he ordered Muslims to engage in Jihad when the enemy attacks... Think before you post stupid comments...

do you count blasphemy as an attack on u ?

also how would u interpret message of allah that is so vague that anyone can interpret it in his own convenience.
I intend to kill and loot, I can find something in the Quran to justify my action. I intend to rape the wife of my non-Muslim neighbor, I find some verses to back up my intention. Heck, recently a Singapore Muslim found some verses in the Quran to justify incest with his daughters and he managed to convince his wives too. What kind of guidance is this that anyone can find anything based on his intentions?

edit : i would request mods not to ban me here. there is something that needs to be said very urgently here. let me put my opinions here.

 

[metro]

@Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

lets take it on one one here buddy.

 

[pundit]

MbQ:

Let's say for argument's sake that I insult your mother. You are outraged, obviously. Do you then get the right to kill me?

 

[Solomon2]

You know, the more I review this the less extraordinary Taseer's murder appears. Because charges of blasphemy rarely reach Pakistani courts since the accused is killed first in jail or in mysterious circumstances, probably with the consent of the security forces. Taseer's death is in keeping, then, with Pakistani tradition, isn't it?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You know, the more I review this the less extraordinary Taseer's murder appears. Because charges of blasphemy rarely reach Pakistani courts since the accused is killed first in jail or in mysterious circumstances, probably with the consent of the security forces. Taseer's death is in keeping, then, with Pakistani tradition, isn't it?

what are you basing your assumption on exactly?

do share

 

[Solomon2]

what are you basing your assumption on exactly?

* Blasphemy convictions are common in Pakistan, although the death sentence has never been carried out. Most convictions are thrown out on appeal, but angry mobs have killed many people accused of blasphemy. link

* Those who are accused of blasphemy may be subject to harassment, threats, and attacks. Police, lawyers, and judges may also be subject to harassment, threats, and attacks when blasphemy is an issue.[11][12] Those accused of blasphemy are subject to immediate incarceration, and most accused are denied bail to forestall mob violence.[9][11] It is common for those accused of blasphemy to be put in solitary confinement for their protection from other inmates and guards. Like those who have served a sentence for blasphemy, those who are acquitted of blasphemy usually go into hiding or leave Pakistan.[7][11][13] link

* In July, two brothers who were Christian walked out of the Faisalabad courthouse facing charges of blasphemy when gunmen opened fire and killed them. link

* Fanish Masih’s death ‘murder in custody’

So while abolishing the Black Law, or replacing it with a more moderate Western-fashion hate crimes-type law, may be symbolically useful and emotionally satisfying, doing so will hardly be effective unless vigilantism and police misbehavior are also addressed. Preferably it should all be done simultaneously.

 

[Tiger Awan]

So while abolishing the Black Law, or replacing it with a more moderate Western-fashion hate crimes-type law, may be symbolically useful and emotionally satisfying, doing so will hardly be effective unless vigilantism and police misbehavior are also addressed. Preferably it should all be done simultaneously.

Not a black law
second it will not be replaced


all we need to do is to address the problems we face in police and judiciary

 

[I FLY HIGH]

Yeah you are "right". I don't know why Salman Taseer sons have not taken action themselves after watching their bullet ridden father. Why do you think they have allowed the court to do justice?

PS. DON'T JUSTIFY A MURDER.

Probably salman Taseers sons dont love him to and extent as Qadri loves OUR PROPHET (P.B.U.H). Why Salman Taseer didnot went by the court , Why he wanted a presidential pardon to a proven convict of insulting our prophet(p.b.u.h).
This was a reaction from Qadri , he thought his life was much cheaper than the sanctity of our our prophet . Qadri violated a law of the land , trial him in court and the court will decide according to law of land.
I justify the death penalty by court to the person involved in blasphemy . But please dont justify blasphemy in the name of liberalization .

 

[Solomon2]

Not a black law second it will not be replaced

all we need to do is to address the problems we face in police and judiciary

These are all connected, and the military is tied in, too. The police and security forces are empowered by the extrajudicial power bestowed upon them by the accepted operation of the blasphemy law, the military and ISI interfere with the judicial system (that they themselves aren't even subject to!), and justice for the little guy is denied because the rich can bribe their way out of jams since the prosecutors aren't accountable to the people.

Do you really think Pakistan's internal strains can be relieved without breaking this Iron Foundation of religious hatred, civilian corruption, uncontrollable military, and vigilantism? I don't. But I can't see any of this happening without a core of brave men willing to organize and declare they are willing to change themselves and articulate and defend a a vision of Pakistan superior to that of the mullah-maddened masses.