No compensation for Pakistani men run over by US diplomat

[surya kiran]

Diplomatic immunity does not extend to murder.

In this case, it does. There are previous cases of diplomats involved in accidents resulting in death of a national of the country. If he was involved in discharge of his duties, he enjoys immunity. Which is what the Americans seem to be saying. If he was not involved in discharge of his duties, meaning he was enjoying his free time, the US would need to waive diplomatic immunity. Else, he would need to have waived his diplomatic immunity by submitting to a Pakistani court. Even if you want him to be convicted in the US, you would need grounds like drunk and driving. Which would in turn need a alcohol test which was not conducted.

If none of the above are present, in this present context Pakistan will not be able to do anything. Assume, you still decide to do something about it and put him under detention, it will result in a tit for tat for Pakistani diplomats in the US. They will need just an excuse to frame a case.

Therefore, I do not see much happening in this case.

 

[IceCold]

These issues are beyond nationality and pride. She is a Pakistani citizen foremost irrespective of what paper she holds. The injustice she has suffered we should all bow our heads in shame. This is the best opportunity to right a wrong we will ever get. We already let one other opportunity go in the Raymond Davis case.

Why? Why is it a shame for Pakistan or Pakistanis when the person we are talking about is a US citizen? and no it is not an issue beyond nationality because its your identity which makes you adhere to the law of the land. And Even if we continue to fight for her under no law can Pakistan claim or fight a case for Aafia simply because she holds the passport of US and as such US laws applies on her.
Rest you can continue asking US morally but aint going to change a damn thing. Those who have been murdered by this A holes car should be given justice and some closure. This is the 2nd time US has done this and frankly speaking i have no doubt that as usual US will go scot-free.

 

[khansaheeb]

Why? Why is it a shame for Pakistan or Pakistanis when the person we are talking about is a US citizen? and no it is not an issue beyond nationality because its your identity which makes you adhere to the law of the land. And Even if we continue to fight for her under no law can Pakistan claim or fight a case for Aafia simply because she holds the passport of US and as such US laws applies on her.
Rest you can continue asking US morally but aint going to change a damn thing. Those who have been murdered by this A holes car should be given justice and some closure. This is the 2nd time US has done this and frankly speaking i have no doubt that as usual US will go scot-free.

Abduction, torture , murder, violation of HR etc. decloaks a person of their citizenship. She and her children were kidnapped in Karachi , that is factual. She was without trial in an Afghan prison that is a fact. It's Pakistanis who are fighting her corner and for only two reasons, she is a Pakistani and a Muslim no matter what you or others say. It's all about negotiation , the US diplomat is a soldier too so we have double leverage. He is probably CIA agent too so we will have triple leverage a too higher player for US to abandon. Aafia is not important to the US as this diplomat so most likely US would relent when it comes to the crunch.

 

[Mrc]

If none of the above are present, in this present context Pakistan will not be able to do anything.

They have found a way... they are stopping him from leaving the country... don't know for how long though

 

[Mumm-Ra]

The only thing the government can do is to declare him ""persona non grata" and make him leave the country. That's it. He has diplomatic immunity. He cannot be questioned or prosecuted by the authority of the host country. This immunity extends to all diplomats of all nations. Ranting around here will not change the rules and there is no other spin on this matter.

However, the immunity is extended in good faith and it is expected that the diplomats will respect the laws of the host country. The only thing to do is to make him leave the country.

 

[surya kiran]

They have found a way... they are stopping him from leaving the country... don't know for how long though

They can stop him and everything. They can even file a case against him, but do not expect anything to beyond that. IF he is a diplomat with immunity, there is nothing you can do legally to punish him.

 

[MBT 3000]

cj will only take notice after permission from establishment

what about corrupt nahel League

 

[Dalit]

In this case, it does. There are previous cases of diplomats involved in accidents resulting in death of a national of the country. If he was involved in discharge of his duties, he enjoys immunity. Which is what the Americans seem to be saying. If he was not involved in discharge of his duties, meaning he was enjoying his free time, the US would need to waive diplomatic immunity. Else, he would need to have waived his diplomatic immunity by submitting to a Pakistani court. Even if you want him to be convicted in the US, you would need grounds like drunk and driving. Which would in turn need a alcohol test which was not conducted.

If none of the above are present, in this present context Pakistan will not be able to do anything. Assume, you still decide to do something about it and put him under detention, it will result in a tit for tat for Pakistani diplomats in the US. They will need just an excuse to frame a case.

Therefore, I do not see much happening in this case.

Don't worry. There are a million ways for a payback.

We will eventually invent something. This ruthless murder won't go unpunished.

The only thing the government can do is to declare him ""persona non grata" and make him leave the country. That's it. He has diplomatic immunity. He cannot be questioned or prosecuted by the authority of the host country. This immunity extends to all diplomats of all nations. Ranting around here will not change the rules and there is no other spin on this matter.

However, the immunity is extended in good faith and it is expected that the diplomats will respect the laws of the host country. The only thing to do is to make him leave the country.

LOL You think it is that simple? Killing innocent people of a host nation and fleeing off in the name of diplomatic immunity?

America has lost every bit of credibility in Pakistan. Also, this is not the first attack to happen.

There is always a time for payback. He might leave now without facing justice, but everyone will remember this.

We will keep this on our to do list. Just like we kept Salala on our list and made them pay. Don't say we didn't make them pay.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Fking bastards think they can kill anybody and get away.

Just below is another incident where a US dipshyt mowed down 20 people in Cairo;

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/diplomatic-car-runs-over-20-in-cairo.91878/

 

[Dalit]

Fking bastards think they can kill anybody and get away.

Just below is another incident where a US dipshyt mowed down 20 people in Cairo;

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/diplomatic-car-runs-over-20-in-cairo.91878/

It is good. I am loving it. The Yanks are hated the world over. The most arrogant, vile and disgusting nation on the planet today.

What more proof do you need when Donald J. Trump is running the affairs of that nation?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

It is good. I am loving it. The Yanks are hated the world over. The most arrogant, vile and disgusting nation on the planet today.

What more proof do you need when Donald J. Trump is running the affairs of that nation?

Fukin agent orange ...

 

[IceCold]

Abduction, torture , murder, violation of HR etc. decloaks a person of their citizenship. She and her children were kidnapped in Karachi , that is factual. She was without trial in an Afghan prison that is a fact. It's Pakistanis who are fighting her corner and for only two reasons, she is a Pakistani and a Muslim no matter what you or others say. It's all about negotiation , the US diplomat is a soldier too so we have double leverage. He is probably CIA agent too so we will have triple leverage a too higher player for US to abandon. Aafia is not important to the US as this diplomat so most likely US would relent when it comes to the crunch.

I have no intention to drag this useless argument, so let us agree to disagree. Plus if you really want to raise your voice than raise for other Pakistanis real Pakistanis as well who are trapped in in Guantanamo Bay. Here:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1392636
Plus this is a separate issue and not related to the thread anyway because for one what closure will Aafia's return bring to the family of those who were killed in this incident? So while we can fight a lost cause somewhere else, lets not deviate from the original incident where two Pakistanis were killed by US and their families deserve justice and that justice will not be served by exchanging this guy with Aafia. It maybe for Aafia's family but not theirs who were killed in the incident.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

Don't worry. There are a million ways for a payback.

We will eventually invent something. This ruthless murder won't go unpunished.



LOL You think it is that simple? Killing innocent people of a host nation and fleeing off in the name of diplomatic immunity?

America has lost every bit of credibility in Pakistan. Also, this is not the first attack to happen.

There is always a time for payback. He might leave now without facing justice, but everyone will remember this.

We will keep this on our to do list. Just like we kept Salala on our list and made them pay. Don't say we didn't make them pay.

Frankly it is. Read the relevant international convention. Salala and this incident are two completely different things. I agree that the Americans are not well liked by most of the people worldwide but that still does not change the rules that give diplomats immunity.

Once again, a diplomat is expected to observe the rules of the host country. It is not as if they can go around and do whatever they want. You can always evict them but that is it. It will cause a row in your relations, you can berate them in all international forums and use diplomacy and your relations with other countries to join you in this condemnation and to get some reprieve for the affected family. However, I doubt we will ever go this route and, once the news dies down, it will be business as usual.

 

[Jackdaws]

People are calling it murder. It is not - since there was no intention to kill, nor does it seem it was premeditated. It is manslaughter at best. Was he drunk? If so, there was a case in the 1990s where a diplomat's immunity was revoked after he killed a kid while driving drunk.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Diplomatic immunity does not extend to murder.

Yes it does, but the country of origin can revoke the diplomatic immunity.
They may also choose to prosecute the individual at home, or ignore it.
The only right Pakistan has is to expel the individual.
If the individual is guilty and there is no circumstances motivating not having a trial, the individual is normally punished in one way or the other.