No ammo, air defence obsolete: Army Chief to PM

[The Great One]

Largest importer and still no ammo, no critical weapons, IAF obsolete!! I wonder what these guys have been doing so far?

@ The Great One, Smarty pants read my elaboration above.. And matter you shared clearly says NATO defines, are you in NATO?

Now read this... Airforce does not only mean aircrafts, it also covers other areas... Read here = Indian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look its simple and easy, moreover free...

What am I supposed to see in the elaboration above?
As I said the Air Defence and Air Force are two completely different branches of the Military.
Infact AD is not even a branch.
One is tasked with mainly taking down the aerial 'infidels' with primarily ground based assets whereas the other has several roles to play such as recon, establishing aerial supremacy, recce, providing Close-Air-Support etc

 

[saiyan0321]

I doubt if either have the capability to shoot down missiles. At least not the small air defence units on the field. I'm not sure who commands the anti ballistic shields and so on.

even america cant get this right since defending against missiles is very difficult and the best air defence cant defend against every missile

What am I supposed to see in the elaboration above?

what your army chief said he clearly said according to the article that the air force is low on ammunition and it cant be trusted to give air cover

 

[Kinetic]

he is slower than tube light... ok lets only blame politicians..for everything

Gen Singh became Army chief only two years ago, but Congress is in power for last eight years what they were doing? What defence ministers do? This situation was not created in one day.

Yeah lets blame politicians because they are the most corrupted people on earth and the reason behind almost all the messes in this country. They cannot think about anything beyond power and money.

 

[lem34]

Israeli Multi-Purpose Tank Ammo Redesigned to Fit the 125mm Gun of the T-90S | Defense Update

Please check the above link. Was too lazy to post a NT. Its about a new tank round Israel has modified for T-90's and stuff.

Sorry wrong post

 

[OrionHunter]

125mm FSAPDS rounds for T 90S was short on supply and can be justified but air defense ammo!!!!!!!!!!Every caliber of air defense ammo like 23mm,30mm and 40mm rounds are produced and supplied by IOF.This army chief is completely out of his mind.

Good God! You sound like a know-it-all! Unfortunately you know nix what the real problem is. It's not about 23mm,30mm and 40mm rounds. It's about the Air Defence system as a whole (Including missiles and radars) and its integration with the Air Force using state of the art equipment in consonance with the comprehensive air defence doctrine that had been planned to be operationalised more than 5 years ago.

The defence ministry has been sleeping over it as is the norm for babus and politicians, for years. Was the Army to wait for another 5 to 10 years before these jokers woke up from their deep slumber? The Chief therefore had no other alternative but to escalate the issue and write to the PM for action.

Anything wrong with that? It was the correct course of action. Until these babus in the MoD and our worthy politicians are kicked in the a$$, things don't move. Period!

 

[Emmie]

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but non NATO armies also have formidable air defence units. Pakistan army has a school of air defence, as seen in the links I posted.

And not just to defend against missiles, but also low flying aircrafts. In fact I'm pretty sure the army air defences of India and pak are for that alone, to shoot down transgressing aircraft. I doubt if either have the capability to shoot down missiles. At least not the small air defence units on the field. I'm not sure who commands the anti ballistic shields and so on.

My point is simple... Unless you are not in NATO you have your own definitions, what NATO defines is absolutely irrelevant.

When it comes to air defence air force is solely responsible for the defence.. Another misconception that you guys are bearing is about the fact that air force is not all about aircrafts... It also covers other areas, like IAF also has Land-based air defence system.. Got it?

 

[janon]

even america cant get this right since defending against missiles is very difficult and the best air defence cant defend against every missile

what your army chief said he clearly said according to the article that the air force is low on ammunition and it cant be trusted to give air cover

Where does he say the air force is low on ammunition? And you say that he said so CLEARLY? I don't see him mention the IAF at all, let alone clearly. How do you deduce that he is talking about anything other than army air defence? He said major fighting arms of the army like infantry, mechanised forces, air defence etc. From all I can see, that means army air defence units, not the IAF. If the IAF was low on ammunition, it would be the IAF chief who complains.

 

[saiyan0321]

Good God! You sound like a know-it-all! Unfortunately you know nix what the real problem is. It's not about 23mm,30mm and 40mm rounds. It's about the Air Defence system as a whole (Including missiles and radars) and its integration with the Air Force using state of the art equipment in consonance with the comprehensive air defence doctrine that had been planned to be operationalised more than 5 years ago.

The defence ministry has been sleeping over it as is the norm for babus and politicians, for years. Was the Army to wait for another 5 to 10 years before these jokers woke up from their deep slumber? The Chief therefore had no other alternative but to escalate the issue and write to the PM for action.

Anything wrong with that? It was the correct course of action. Until these babus in the MoD and our worthy politicians are kicked in the a$$, things don't move. Period!

who should be blamed then the defence minister ofcourse its his job to keep an eye on the army and its spending and tell it to the government the generals who didnt tell about this or the pm who kept a blind eye to everything

 

[janon]

My point is simple... Unless you are not in NATO you have your own definitions, what NATO defines is absolutely irrelevant.

When it comes to air defence air force is solely responsible for the defence.. Another misconception that you guys are bearing is about the fact that air force is not all about aircrafts... It also covers other areas, like IAF also has Land-based air defence system.. Got it?

Then why does the pakistan army have a school of air defence? Why does the Indian army have so many air defence units? No, it is not the air force who is solely responsible for that, NATO or non NATO. It is the joint duty of both the services. Both the Indian army and IAF have several akash regiments for medium air defence. Just google pakistan army air defence and see if your claim that air force is solely responsible is right. It is not.

And yes, I know that air force has ground units also. Even garud units (and pak has something similar). But the point was not whether the air force is all about aircrafts. The point is that the army is also responsible for air defence, not just the air force.

Air defence is not purely a NATO developed term or concept for the armies. Pakistan army had air defence units before NATO was born. As did most other armies.

 

[Emmie]

What am I supposed to see in the elaboration above?
As I said the Air Defence and Air Force are two completely different branches of the Military.
Infact AD is not even a branch.
One is tasked with mainly taking down the aerial 'infidels' with primarily ground based assets whereas the other has several roles to play such as recon, establishing aerial supremacy, recce, providing Close-Air-Support etc

Unless you are not hypermetropic lad... Here again.

Oo really since when army has started defending the air space?



If I am reading correct then it says AIR DEFENSE.

Did he refer to missiles, especially intercepting missiles?... If thats the case I am sorry I misinterpret it.. My bad

 

[saiyan0321]

the country’s air defence is “97% obsolete and it doesn't give the deemed confidence to protect…from the air”.

“The state of the major (fighting) arms i.e. Mechanised Forces, Artillery, Air Defence, Infantry and Special Forces, as well as the Engineers and Signals, is indeed alarming,” Gen Singh wrote in his letter, reported DNA’s Saikat Datta.

ok what do you call this he is saying the air defence is 97% obselete that mean entire air defence from planes to ammunition

 

[Lonely Hermit]

ok what do you call this he is saying the air defence is 97% obselete that mean entire air defence from planes to ammunition

You dear sir have no idea about army.
My dear he is the army chief he will only comment about the army when he said air defence is 97% obselete he meant army air defense.

 

[janon]

the country’s air defence is “97% obsolete and it doesn't give the deemed confidence to protect…from the air”.

ok what do you call this he is saying the air defence is 97% obselete that mean entire air defence from planes to ammunition

Being the army chief, when he says air defence is 97% obsolete, it is understood that he is talking about the force he commands - the army. The army chief does not speak for the whole defence establishment in India, all three chiefs are equally important.

Otherwise that 97% obsolete won't make sense at all. The air force's main air defence is by combat aircraft. And if you include all the combat aircraft of the IAF, there is no way you can term the entire air defence of the country to be 97% obsolete - far from it.

The army air defence is a small part of the air defence of the country as a whole, and it is this part that is 97% obsolete. He is not expected to comment on the air force's state of ammunition or inventory.

 

[The Great One]

Unless you are not hypermetropic lad... Here again.

If thats the case I am sorry I misinterpret it.. My bad

Ok Dear I forgive you but please don't beg.
Once more

Army

Armies typically have air defence in depth, from integral MANPADS like RBS 70, Stinger and Igla at smaller force levels up to army-level missile defence systems such as Angara and Patriot. Often, the high-altitude long-range missile systems force aircraft to fly at low level, where anti-aircraft guns can bring them down. As well as the small and large systems, for effective air defence there must be intermediate systems. These may be deployed at regiment-level and consist of platoons of self-propelled anti-aircraft platforms, whether they are self-propelled anti-aircraft guns (SPAAGs), integrated air-defence systems like Tunguska or all-in-one surface-to-air missile platforms like Roland or SA-8 Gecko.

Anti-aircraft warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As can be seen from this thread
The two members... Emmie and saiyan3213213244313 wateva
are devoid of performing even simple tasks, let alone tasks involving complex critical thinking, so I've decided to quit.

 

[Emmie]

Then why does the pakistan army have a school of air defence? Why does the Indian army have so many air defence units? No, it is not the air force who is solely responsible for that, NATO or non NATO. It is the joint duty of both the services. Both the Indian army and IAF have several akash regiments for medium air defence. Just google pakistan army air defence and see if your claim that air force is solely responsible is right. It is not.

And yes, I know that air force has ground units also. Even garud units (and pak has something similar). But the point was not whether the air force is all about aircrafts. The point is that the army is also responsible for air defence, not just the air force.

Air defence is not purely a NATO developed term or concept for the armies. Pakistan army had air defence units before NATO was born. As did most other armies.

Man you must blame reporting for this.... IT SAYS COUNTRY"S AIR DEFENCE - What do you mean by country's? IAF defends some other country?

Say it straight away army's capabilities of defending air space are obsolete..