NHA to build 9.7 km long Malakand Tunnel

[American Pakistani]

Check the map... forget the history,the people living in gwadar.

Sorry I didn't get you.

I mean if Pakistan can buy Gawadar then why not Wakhan.

 

[INDIC]

You have seen the picture or Asif Ali Zardari had invited you there?

Anyway, share the picture you have seen.... or keep out.

I saw certain videos on Lowari tunnel.

 

[Leader]

Yrra, Gawadar was purchased from Oman for $3 million and Alaska was sold to the US by Russia.



You see that 806 km long stretch of tarmac we affectionately call the KKH? I see it's time for an obligatory visit to http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...n-roads-motorways-highway-infrastructure.html for you.



Yeah, Hyderabad, Goa, Sikkim......Oh wait......

On topic:

Guys, stop looking at maps. Why are we so fixated upon the Wakhan Corridor? It makes no sense. 1) We have the KKH running pretty and free into China a few kilometers away from the Tajik border. 2) Tajikistan Kyrgyzstan are already directly connected to the KKH via road and pretty much via rail and pipe too. Don't forget the planned rail line along the KKH. The Chinese have built it, enjoy it. 3) The Hindu Kush along the Wakhan Corridor are running almost latitudinaly, no valleys there to built a road through, just heck loads of mountain passes to climb. You think the KKH was/is a headache? This will be far more, that too without China's help. 4) China is immeasurably a better transit route than Afghanistan, that too an area controlled by the Northern Alliance. 5) Are we willing to dump tonnes of money for a road project that is futile? 6) There's a reason the KKH is called the 8th wonder of the world.

Are the reports accurate and credible? Because these ministers of ours are pretty much morons. If I were to pick a route through Afghanistan to Central Asia I'd enter through the Khyber pass. I'd be seriously surprised if we went the Wakhan Corridor way.
@Leader

no wonder I tagged you, otherwise ham saray musalmaan tukkay laga rahe thay

thanks for the real and accurate ground info.

 

[krash]

Guys, some additions and further clarifications;

The reason why the Wakhan Corridor is not and was not made a part of Pakistan is that its virtually disconnected with us. Imagine that you have a house surrounded by a boundary wall. On the other side of the wall in your backyard you have 5 sq feet of area which (for the purpose of explaining) you own but this area is surrounded by your neighbor's land on all the other three sides with easy access for him. It would be no problem if you could tear down the wall or just build a door right through it but the thing is that you can't, you can't even jump over it. Those 5 sq feet might as well be half a world away from you. Exactly this way we have no appreciable access to the Wakhan Corridor. Even though on a 2D map it's right at our feet and makes perfect sense to have it as a part of Pakistan but in reality it is quite a distance away.

Next, according to some reports from the locals two different feasibility reports have been drawn for two different routes, one which is shorter and requires a tunnel and the other which is longer but does not require a tunnel. But that is as far as the project has reached. I still believe that its a bad idea.

For the Indian mate on the Lowari tunnel; The Lowari tunnel has been opened for traffic for quite some time now (I didn't want to put forth any claims before reconfirming them). Yes there is no tarmac or lights inside, but still it is open to traffic throughout winter (when the traditional road link is snowed shut) and in case of any emergencies. Pipes for water and gas, and wires for electricity have also long been laid down through the tunnel. The reason why the road remains unbuilt is because Mr. Zardari thought it better to divert all the funds from the tunnel to Nawabshah.

 

[Kambojaric]

Guys, some additions and further clarifications;

The reason why the Wakhan Corridor is not and was not made a part of Pakistan is that its virtually disconnected with us. Imagine that you have a house surrounded by a boundary wall. On the other side of the wall in your backyard you have 5 sq feet of area which (for the purpose of explaining) you own but this area is surrounded by your neighbor's land on all the other three sides with easy access for him. It would be no problem if you could tear down the wall or just build a door right through it but the thing is that you can't, you can't even jump over it. Those 5 sq feet might as well be half a world away from you. Exactly this way we have no appreciable access to the Wakhan Corridor. Even though on a 2D map it's right at our feet and makes perfect sense to have it as a part of Pakistan but in reality it is quite a distance away.

I was under the impression that the Wakhan was not part of Pakistan simply because the Brits and the Russians/Soviets wanted to keep a buffer state between themselves in the 1800-1900s. As far as my limited knowledge of GB is concerned I always thought that that place was very disconnected to the rest of Pakistan (exemplified by the need to build the Lowari Tunnel), but that did not prevent it from becoming part of Pakistan. Similarly I think the Wakhan could have become part of Pakistan had the British wanted to annex the Wakhan in the 1800s, but they did not because that would have given them a border with the Ruskis, causing potentially big problems for the two world powers of their time.

As far as forcefully annexing Wakhan is concerned, Im afraid doing things like that in the 21st century is not possible unless you want to become a pariah state and be heavily sanctioned. The only way countries can annex parts of other countries is if the people living within a region of a country wish to become part of another country. However the people of the Wakhan have not shown any inclination of wanting to break away from Afghanistan so thats a dead end. Wanting to purchase the land is probably a dead end as well as this time the buying will have to be done from not Oman, but Afghanistan which is a far more problematic and unstable country. Due to the abscence of a centralized authority you can be 100% sure that even if the government of Afghanistan does agree to sell the land, "factions" within Afghanistan will never accept this, and will cause even more problems for Pakistan. All of this is pointless anyway since as has been already pointed out, via the KKH, Pakistan has access to Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan without even having to think about the Afghans and their issues. That KKH pretty much links us up with the whole of Central Asia.

 

[krash]

I was under the impression that the Wakhan was not part of Pakistan simply because the Brits and the Russians/Soviets wanted to keep a buffer state between themselves in the 1800-1900s. As far as my limited knowledge of GB is concerned I always thought that that place was very disconnected to the rest of Pakistan (exemplified by the need to build the Lowari Tunnel), but that did not prevent it from becoming part of Pakistan. Similarly I think the Wakhan could have become part of Pakistan had the British wanted to annex the Wakhan in the 1800s, but they did not because that would have given them a border with the Ruskis, causing potentially big problems for the two world powers of their time.

I've read something to that effect too, however, its a tad inaccurate. The Brits earlier on sent a few surveyors to Gilgit-Baltistan in fear of a Russian invasion from this side. All the reports published on their return established that the British fears were unsubstantiated and that it was impossible for the Russians to come marching through the mountains. Wakhan just became a geographical buffer by default, so to speak. The existence of Afghanistan as an intended buffer state is indeed correct and it is in that context that the same is assumed for Wakhan. But a 15km sliver of unruly and un-administrated land would not have served much purpose against an invading Russian force. As far as a tense border is concerned, there wouldn't have been one in any traditional sense since there was and still is no need or possibility of manning that area because of the said mountainous belt. Remember that Afghanistan's demarcations (as is the case with most artificial demarcations) were done on geographical and topographical grounds. The British could have taken a much bigger chunk out of Afghanistan and still have left a pretty sizable buffer state in between but our western mountains made an ideal natural border both for demarcation and defense. And in case of any conflict it would have been extremely difficult to hold areas such as Wakhan due to the reasons explained before.

As far as Gilgit-Baltistan is concerned, it was extremely remote but not disconnected at all. Even though extremely difficult to pass through, valleys connect pretty much all of Gilgit-Baltistan with the rest of the now Pakistan and none to the west or up north with China and Afghanistan. The KKH gives a pretty good idea; it only forces its way up a pass at Khunjrab. The Lowari tunnel is an example of further easing and quickening the access to Chitral, like I said the usual route is still used exclusively during the summers. More over, Chitral is to Afghanistan what Wakhan is to Pakistan, i.e. difficult to get to but still very much reachable while disconnected from the other. Don't forget that these areas have always been connected to and, for most of the time, ruled, through proxy or otherwise, by the forces that were present down south. Also remember that the invading forces from Central Asia, even Alexander on his way back from Samarkand, had to go down south, enter through the Khyber Pass and then go up north to reach these areas.

Of course, despite of all this the British could still have annexed Wakhan but to what effect for Pakistan? In my opinion, not much if at all. Remember the ceding and gifting of areas between Pakistan and China? Made perfect sense. We got what was more useful to us and gave that which was of little use to us, the Chinese got the same deal. The areas gifted to China were disconnected with us with regards to any appreciable land routes.

ps: All of this is under the assumption that the said land does not hold any intrinsic value, as was the case with the areas gifted to China and is with Wakhan.

 

[Kambojaric]

@krash, Yes, ive also read quite a few times how the British were totally obsessed with the idea that the Russians would come down from Central Asia and steal the jewel in their crown, most recently in "Return of the King" by Dalrymple, but of course it was an exaggerated belief and not based on any solid evidence. BTW do you travel to GB alot. Ive noticed also in previous posts that you know a lot about that region. Are you originally from there?

 

[Kambojaric]

Double Post

 

[krash]

@krash, Yes, ive also read quite a few times how the British were totally obsessed with the idea that the Russians would come down from Central Asia and steal the jewel in their crown, most recently in "Return of the King" by Dalrymple, but of course it was an exaggerated belief and not based on any solid evidence. BTW do you travel to GB alot. Ive noticed also in previous posts that you know a lot about that region. Are you originally from there?

Not from Gilgit-Baltistan, all four of my grandparents came from Srinagar just before the partition so I like to pretend that I have mountain blood. But in truth, my parents are travelers, took me and my brother every which where since we were little, once or twice a year to Gilgit-Baltistan, but still not enough. According to them, I've been obsessed with mountains since before I learnt to talk and we all know that no one does mountains better than Gilgit-Baltistan. The obsession and my trips to the areas only grew as I got older. You can't blame me, I mean mountains, nature, true wilderness, unbelievably spectacular beauty, the nicest people, travelling, disjoint from the rest of the world, and I could go on forever.

Try it once, I promise you you'll be left with a different perspective on life.

 

[Kambojaric]

Not from Gilgit-Baltistan, all four of my grandparents came from Srinagar just before the partition so I like to pretend that I have mountain blood. But in truth, my parents are travelers, took me and my brother every which where since we were little, once or twice a year to Gilgit-Baltistan, but still not enough. According to them, I've been obsessed with mountains since before I learnt to talk and we all know that no one does mountains better than Gilgit-Baltistan. The obsession and my trips to the areas only grew as I got older. You can't blame me, I mean mountains, nature, true wilderness, unbelievably spectacular beauty, the nicest people, travelling, disjoint from the rest of the world, and I could go on forever.

Try it once, I promise you you'll be left with a different perspective on life.

I definitely intend to visit GB one day. I have lived for a couple of years in Sweden, which is also hilly and densly forested although not as extreme as GB in terms of sheer altitude. But in college there we had to do something called "orientering" at least once a year which was great fun. Run around in a forest amongst hills and try to find the way out. However every time I travel to Pakistan (for say a month in the summer like this year), the visiting all the relatives part never ends. Have so many relatives lol, so i end up clogged in Lahore the whole 4 weeks. But definitely in the future I intend to go to North Pakistan. Il ask you for advice when that time comes if thats fine ?