Newsweek targets Pakistan

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What utter rubbish......The elections are useless if the people of pakistan can not get rid of mushy.
Your allegations against the CJ are as childish as what mushy tried to frame him with and failed.

Dabong,

It was precisely this attitude, amongst most of the political parties, lawyers and perhaps the SC judges, that led to this situation in the first place. First it was his dual office and that he was not acceptable with his uniform, then when that issue seemed to be getting resolved, Musharraf was not acceptable with or without uniform.

Lets assume for a moment that every criticism directed at Musharraf is true - that he is corrupt, power hungry and a ruthless dictator. Wouldn't it be prudent then to not back him into a corner? Think about the road map he had presented rationally for a moment - SC rules him eligible to remain as president, he doffs his COAS uniform, Kiyani takes over (a candidate that no one could find fault with), and Musharraf serves as president for 5 years with almost all his power diluted. What was so terribly wrong with this compromise in the interest of allowing the system to continue?

Musharraf would have faded from the scenes in another five years. But what happened instead was an arrogant and stubborn pursuit of a complete upheaval of the system in place. Politics is about compromise and give and take - what exactly was the opposition "giving"?

Even now there is a hope for change and progress towards democracy. Most likely Musharraf will be approved to remain as president by a loyalist SC - what the opposition needs to do is focus on working with him to make the election process free and fair, and take a realistic and long term approach to bidding him farewell.

 

[Always Neutral]

I don't believe I said others are not free to voice their opinions. Being "always neutral" I'm surprised you would see something I did not mention.

I'm looking forward to your neutral answers.

Dear RR,

Firstly there is no real question you have asked but made some statements. Anyway did it cross your mind why would PM even suggest that they can postpone the elections ? Well let me answer it. The PM made that statement to "test the wind" on behalf of the President. When the President saw that the world opinion and the US was against it, he got the Interior Minister to say Feb end when Mr Bush called and said no go the Gen stepped in and had to (concede) make a statement that the elections will not be postponed/

The second point you make about the CJ does not hold any water in any democracy worth its salt. The CJ and 10 other judges made the ruling so if you mean to say that the Supreme Court and the highest judges are all fools then its a sad reflection of the state of Pakistan.

Regards

 

[roadrunner]

Dear RR,

Firstly there is no real question you have asked but made some statements. Anyway did it cross your mind why would PM even suggest that they can postpone the elections ? Well let me answer it. The PM made that statement to "test the wind" on behalf of the President. When the President saw that the world opinion and the US was against it, he got the Interior Minister to say Feb end when Mr Bush called and said no go the Gen stepped in and had to (concede) make a statement that the elections will not be postponed/

The second point you make about the CJ does not hold any water in any democracy worth its salt. The CJ and 10 other judges made the ruling so if you mean to say that the Supreme Court and the highest judges are all fools then its a sad reflection of the state of Pakistan.

Regards

What a ridiculous notion ! ! Musharraf called an Emergency of State to "test the wind" to see how the world would react Dude, if Musharraf is a dictator with no regard for the welfare of Pakistan like you say he is, why does he care what the world thinks?? He might as well disregard world opinion, since all he wants is to be head of the country, however sanctioned his actions may make it

Other points are

• Elections must be held within a year as per parliament powers under a state of emergency. What difference will this make to the outcome of the elections, or to Pakistan if Musharraf sneaks another 6 months or 1 year in power?
• Don't you think Musharraf is smart enough to know that by calling a state of emergency right before elections, the international media would pounce on him and say he was trying to hang onto power? You honestly think he needed to "test the wind" to find this out? What a theory

I dont get your second point.

 

[roadrunner]

Lets assume for a moment that every criticism directed at Musharraf is true - that he is corrupt, power hungry and a ruthless dictator. Wouldn't it be prudent then to not back him into a corner?

good point. Apparently Musharraf is corrupt, power hungry, and a ruthless individual hell bent on occupying the presidency for as long as possible, and couldnt care less about Pakistan. But, as per Always Neutral's theory, he cares for world opinion, and how it might negatively affect Pakistan. Well, at least AM has contradicted himself into a corner himself now, therefore Musharraf does have Pakistan's interests as his priority, if he cares about what the world thinks.. Such a ruler would be the best Pakistan has had to date, compared with previous rulers whose sole objective was to line their purses with estates and Swiss Bank accounts

 

[Always Neutral]

What a ridiculous notion ! ! Musharraf called an Emergency of State to "test the wind" to see how the world would react Dude, if Musharraf is a dictator with no regard for the welfare of Pakistan like you say he is, why does he care what the world thinks?? He might as well disregard world opinion, since all he wants is to be head of the country, however sanctioned his actions may make it

Please read carefully its in English.

Gen M called for emergency because the Constitutional Bench of the Supreme Court would have found as the Constitution of Pakistan he could not have stood for elections in uniform.

The PM made the statement that elections could be postponed for a year to test the wind.

Other points are

• Elections must be held within a year as per parliament powers under a state of emergency. What difference will this make to the outcome of the elections, or to Pakistan if Musharraf sneaks another 6 months or 1 year in power?
• Don't you think Musharraf is smart enough to know that by calling a state of emergency right before elections, the international media would pounce on him and say he was trying to hang onto power? You honestly think he needed to "test the wind" to find this out? What a theory

I dont get your second point.

So you agree the emergency was to dismiss the CJ and Supreme Court Bench and thus hang onto power. If he has declared emergency to save Pakistan why bother about Mr G Bush or US opinion ? Does not the country come above everything else ?

 

[roadrunner]

So you agree the emergency was to dismiss the CJ and Supreme Court Bench and thus hang onto power.

For someone who's British with no links to India, you do have difficulty understanding, don't you? .I was saying in fact, that the emergency was to dismiss the CJ alone, and thus to allow elections to proceed unhindered

If he has declared emergency to save Pakistan why bother about Mr G Bush or US opinion ? Does not the country come above everything else ?[/B]

The American opinion is important to any country, if they have interests in that country. Same with Pakistan. But what I've been trying to get you to understand (obviously it hasn't sunk in yet), is that Musharraf never postponed elections in the first place. The first thing he did do was dismiss the CJ and take over the SC. If postponing elections were on the agenda, he would have done this immediately. What was on the agenda was the judiciary..this is clear by the chronology of events that occurred after the state of emergency was declared. Or was he "testing the wind" also by sacking the CJ to see what the world thinks of that too?

 

[Always Neutral]

For someone who's British with no links to India, you do have difficulty understanding, don't you? .I was saying in fact, that the emergency was to dismiss the CJ alone, and thus to allow elections to proceed unhindered

Which elections his or the parliamentary elections in Jan 2007 ? The Supreme Court had problems with his election not the one in Jan 2007. If he was as popular as you say he is then why did he not step down as CAS and contest the elections as laid down in your constitution ? Even the SC could not have intervened. Care to elaborate ?


The American opinion is important to any country, if they have interests in that country. Same with Pakistan. But what I've been trying to get you to understand (obviously it hasn't sunk in yet), is that Musharraf never postponed elections in the first place. The first thing he did do was dismiss the CJ and take over the SC. If postponing elections were on the agenda, he would have done this immediately. What was on the agenda was the judiciary..this is clear by the chronology of events that occurred after the state of emergency was declared. Or was he "testing the wind" also by sacking the CJ to see what the world thinks of that too?

Oh yes and when did you last see the the US President say to the head of a democratically elected country publicly that you need to step out of your uniform and don't postpone the elections. What was the need for Mr G Bush to say that publicly ?Are not opinions voiced quietly over the hotline ?

 

[Spring Onion]

So you agree the emergency was to dismiss the CJ and Supreme Court Bench and thus hang onto power.

If he has declared emergency to save Pakistan why bother about Mr G Bush or US opinion ? Does not the country come above everything else ?

Dont know about RR

But i agree the emergency was put to dismiss the CJ and Supreme Court Bench

1. NOT Because Musharraf needs that to Hang on to Power Because
A. He could have hang on to power as a civilian even if the CJ had given verdict against him in dual office case. ( I will eleborate it after some lawyer here or anyone of you have put some comments).

2. the emergency was put to dismiss the CJ and Supreme Court Bench
Becuse

A. TO Put Benazir into Power as US had lobbyed for her immensly.
B. to allow her room to get easy attention and popularity through holding anti-Emergency and anti-govt strikes as her reputation plunged to the worst low after striking deal with Musharraf.

C. and the most Important and solid reason to Put Emergency and Throw CJ and Supreme Court Bench to SAVE MADAM BHUTTO of Corruption cases as the CJ was likely to giver Verdict against the NRO (National Reconciliation Ordinence) according to which all the corruption of Madam Bhutto and her husband was forgiven.

Indeed G Bush pressure is something we need to be worried about Always as US had played a dirty role here in all this and at the same time kept on beating the drum against emergency imposition what a strategy indeed.

 

[Always Neutral]

Dont know about RR

But i agree the emergency was put to dismiss the CJ and Supreme Court Bench

1. NOT Because Musharraf needs that to Hang on to Power Because
A. He could have hang on to power as a civilian even if the CJ had given verdict against him in dual office case. ( I will eleborate it after some lawyer here or anyone of you have put some comments).

2. the emergency was put to dismiss the CJ and Supreme Court Bench
Becuse

A. TO Put Benazir into Power as US had lobbyed for her immensly.
B. to allow her room to get easy attention and popularity through holding anti-Emergency and anti-govt strikes as her reputation plunged to the worst low after striking deal with Musharraf.

C. and the most Important and solid reason to Put Emergency and Throw CJ and Supreme Court Bench to SAVE MADAM BHUTTO of Corruption cases as the CJ was likely to giver Verdict against the NRO (National Reconciliation Ordinence) according to which all the corruption of Madam Bhutto and her husband was forgiven.

Indeed G Bush pressure is something we need to be worried about Always as US had played a dirty role here in all this and at the same time kept on beating the drum against emergency imposition what a strategy indeed.

Dear Jana,

I must say very beautifully and aptly put.

Lets see how Mrs BB handles this US life line.

Regards

 

[Spring Onion]

Thank You Always
You remember when asked by you time and again whether i support Emergency or not i did not reply because i was try to understand the situation what could be real motive behind the emergency and now it has been clear all had been done to facilitate only one Person i.e BB.

As it was 99 % sure that the SC was going to reject NRO which would have put BB in hot waters.

And even if the CJ had ruled against Musharraf he would have been re-elected as Civilian President by PML(Q) and Co as they are in strong position to win in Punjab and also some other areas.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Forget about Newsweek being anti Pakistan.

While browsing world news, I stumbled on this shocker.

Mewsweek is kid gloves when compared to Sunday Times. Written with true journalistic flair to startle and sensationalise:

Judges ruling on general faced sex blackmail - Times Online

True?

I have taken it for what its worth!

Jana,

Could you, as a fellow journalist, check this story out and also do a background check for its authenticity, if any or is it like the SOB story?

It seems that no stones are being left unturned to make the waters murkier than it is!

 

[roadrunner]

Forget about Newsweek being anti Pakistan.

While browsing world news, I stumbled on this shocker.

Mewsweek is kid gloves when compared to Sunday Times. Written with true journalistic flair to startle and sensationalise:

Judges ruling on general faced sex blackmail - Times Online

True?

I have taken it for what its worth!

Jana,

Could you, as a fellow journalist, check this story out and also do a background check for its authenticity, if any or is it like the SOB story?

It seems that no stones are being left unturned to make the waters murkier than it is!

that one is a shocker I doubt whether it's true.

 

[Always Neutral]

This writer will be also on the next plane to UK.

Regards

 

[Spring Onion]

Forget about Newsweek being anti Pakistan.

While browsing world news, I stumbled on this shocker.

Mewsweek is kid gloves when compared to Sunday Times. Written with true journalistic flair to startle and sensationalise:

Judges ruling on general faced sex blackmail - Times Online

True?

I have taken it for what its worth!

Jana,

Could you, as a fellow journalist, check this story out and also do a background check for its authenticity, if any or is it like the SOB story?

It seems that no stones are being left unturned to make the waters murkier than it is!

Well sir I wont comment on it directly.

BUT
Such practice as stated in this write up about the personal activities of those judges and their kins ummm well such things in Islamabad and among people of higher cadre, officials and their kids be from any profession is common. Even majority of the (Not ALL) well off in Islamabad take this practice as normal.
If any of you remember the Net Cafes scandal wherein daughters of some officials were involved and some high profile people which led to surfacing of the scandal.

Rest recoding and spying on all people important in bureaucracy, government, judiciary, politicians all is normal thing for the agencies and they are doing it since their creation and I guess it is better for the country that they should keep tapping such things

And
RR the part of video tapping can be very much true

 

[roadrunner]

I meant about the blackmailing part. But personally, even the video tapping part I'd doubt. Why bother, since everyone knows about it anyway