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Well let's hope that never happens......

We have pinned very high hopes on a country like Holland, that's all....

Somehow it is disappointing to see the recent developments there.....
I think you've been talking to the wrong people and/or reading the 'wrong' info (i.e. one sided and/or exagerated editorials or sensationalist newspaper articles). In fact, we're NOT a bunch of murdering anti-muslim fascists over here. Really. Trust me on this. I live here.
 
I think you've been talking to the wrong people and/or reading the 'wrong' info (i.e. one sided and/or exagerated editorials or sensationalist newspaper articles). In fact, we're NOT a bunch of murdering anti-muslim fascists over here. Really. Trust me on this. I live here.
That wasn't ever what I imagine Holland to be. However there is valid concern that intolerance in certain European societies (France for starters) can result in things like the ban on Hijabs. The entire world is concerned about neo-fascism in Europe which is spreading rapidly (Wilders in Holland, LePen in France etc.). You can analyze it many ways as maybe a reaction to new immigrants and the clash of cultures, or a reaction to globalization that doesn't suit Europeans, the loss of status quo, whatever.

However - we have to realize that we have to curb Islamic fundamentalist tendencies on the one hand and the rise of fascism on the other. We have failed at checking the rise of both these movements (and rejecting them). I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Bangladesh either. These are from local fashion shoots and co-exist.


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There are modern Islamic societies (namely Malaysia and Indonesia) which have integrated modern Islamic lifestyles within their secular milieu in a very tolerant manner. Holland can take lessons from them.

Unless Holland decides to deport Muslim immigrants, they are there to stay. So a way must be found to address their grievances without turning Holland into a Sharia state on the one hand, or a fascist state on the other. Banning Hijabs is not going to work. But seeking Muslim help and working with these immigrants to curb fundamentalism might. I am certain there is some movement in that direction at this time although Rutte seems to lightly appease Wilders' followers. Encouraging or abetting fascism is going to set a bad future precedent for people like me who - despite being a secular brown management resource, is victimized in Western societies for belonging to specific ethnicities and/or religious groups. These people are needed for Western societies unless Western societies decide to raise their own management resources.....which will be costly and won't happen anytime soon.

In any case - I think we have beat this off-topic discussion to death. I hope you realize what I was driving at. In the US we have our hands full with it already. Hence my long winding comments.
 
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Unless Holland decides to deport Muslim immigrants, they are there to stay.
Here, nobody is deporting Muslim immigrants (although migrants that apply for asylum or residency permit and are denied do get sent back). Not even an issue, not now, not in the past.

So a way must be found to address their grievances without turning Holland into a Sharia state on the one hand, or a fascist state on the other.
What grievances, specifically? Muslim immigrants have exactly the same rights and obligations as any other immigrant that comes here and are treated no different. And once here legally, they have the same rights and obligations as any Dutch. What matters is what you make of opportunities. Meanwhile, what fascist state? Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism. The Dutch state is in no way authoritarian and the Dutch are neither radical nor highly nationalistic. Fascists opposed international free market capitalism. The Netherlands doesn't really do that.
Out of a population of about 17,103,642 (today at 9pm), 12.980.788 can legally vote. In the recent election, 81,4% actually did. Out of these 10,566,361 some 13% voted Wilder's PVV. That is 1,373,627 people or 8% of the population. About 70% of the popular vote (still) goes to the main center-left, centre and center-right parties (SP, GL, PvdA, D66, CDA, VVD) and 17% votes a variety of small parties on all sides of the spectrum.
The best predictor of WIlders voting is education level: these voters are lack high education and have been hit harderst by the economic crisis of 2008 and there for angry. With economic upturn, at least part of this group will 'melt away' again.

Banning Hijabs is not going to work.
In the Netherlands it is illegal for anyone (irrespective of religious persuation) to wear facecovering clothing (of any kind) in educational and care facilities, government buildings and public transportation.
The starting point is that in a free country like the Netherlands everyone has the right to dress at its discretion, no matter what others think or feel about this. This freedom is only limited in situations where it is essential that we can look at each other in the face. For example, because good service and / or safety must be ensured. This applies to schools, hospitals, government buildings and on public transport. Here again, the government has responsibility to set the rules.
The government has sought a balance between the freedom of people to wear clothing that suits them and the importance of mutual communication and recognizable. The government sees no reason for a general ban that would apply to all public places.
Whose face is covered in places where that's banned, can be fined up to 405 euros. It is allowed to wear clothing that needed to practice a profession or sport, protection, or in participating in festive and cultural activities. This is also permitted by healthcare facilities in private rooms as sleeping and living quarters.
 
What grievances, specifically? Muslim immigrants have exactly the same rights and obligations as any other immigrant that comes here and are treated no different. And once here legally, they have the same rights and obligations as any Dutch. What matters is what you make of opportunities.
Of course. But you have to realize that it is not a level playing field all the time, in a culturally monolithic European country like say Holland (unlike the US which was built by immigrants) 'Opportunities' don't just materialize with equal experience and education, they are controlled by White Dutch people with power and often disproportionately more power (employers who hold the status quo currently like mostly White Dutch) who want to control those with lesser power (e.g. non-white immigrants, women, or both). 'Treated No Different' is an illusion and comfortable commentary to only those who have never been the subject of discrimination themselves. Even in the Western US, which is highly (highly!) liberal, this is not true. When most whites have no college degree to qualify to get a job, non-whites often have to be way more qualified, having Masters and Ph.D's and even then they may not get the job or contract, because of human nature. Illegal acts of discrimination will simply be overlooked because of prevailing xenophobic societal sentiments, any immigrant complaining will be seen as a 'troublemaker' by the White dutch...

Essentially what has happened is that xenophobia has made its new home in Holland, where politicians (the likes of Geert Wilders) have legitimized discrimination (often of the religious type). Politicians like to push the button of xenophobia with poorer white Dutch (which is a powerful sentiment), and rail against a common enemy of 'Islam', which is symbolized in the triad of 'Koran, Mosques and Hijab'. Ban those and the xenophobic Dutch have found a powerful, common unifying cause. This is the rallying cry for the poorer Dutch who have lost jobs and become even poorer as a result of globalization.

But this is sort of unwise in a 'Trumpish' sense in that banning Mosque construction, the owning of a Koran and public wearing of Hijabs is not going to bring back the Golden age of splendor in Holland. Rather Holland as a country will be branded as a haven of discrimination which is an undesirable outcome.

What the Dutch have to understand that they have to accept diversity in a new world (as a society), there is no other alternative. If you don't (and don't have a sane national conversation about it and come to a consensus as a society) then you risk being ostracized by those societies that have accepted it. And most larger countries and societies in this world have already.....

The best predictor of WIlders voting is education level: these voters are lack high education and have been hit harderst by the economic crisis of 2008 and there for angry. With economic upturn, at least part of this group will 'melt away' again.

I wouldn't be so sure. This is a naive hope that once xenophobic, a person automatically turns 'accepting' to foreigners when they get a job. You need to have laws in the books to have actual stern repercussions (including re-education process) against 'acts of discrimination' against immigrants (especially non-whites), whether in construction job-sites, at the office work-place, in schools and in any public venue for anything. We expect nothing less from one of the most advanced societies in Europe.

In the Netherlands it is illegal for anyone (irrespective of religious persuation) to wear facecovering clothing (of any kind) in educational and care facilities, government buildings and public transportation.

What you are talking about is a Burka. Most modern Muslim women are not wearing Burkas these days. But this sort of Hijab shown below should be allowed and it is not (currently), in France.

In fact this is a woman's right. You cannot tell a woman (whether Muslim, Christian or Zoroastrian) on what to wear provided they are not breaking existing law or is offensive. Hijab is worn by women to ensure that you cannot see a woman's hair. It is a Muslim woman's personal decision of modesty. The fact that some don't like it is their personal problem. There is also a similar Jewish law, but Jewish women get around it by wearing a wig, I believe.

To sum it up - I am not a super religious person, but I find it highly unethical to 'brand' people a certain way and treat them in a differential manner. If someone wants to wear their religiosity on their sleeves (i.e. outwardly), they have every right to do that. My relationship of salvation with My God is private, but that does not mean I will ostracize people who want to show public displays of being religious (without trying to step on my beliefs and freedom). In addition of supporting that liberal view personally, I will support that as a society and as a country as well.

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DPS STS School, Senior Campus, Sector 15, Uttara Third Phase

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Peace Institute, Uttara Third Phase

The residential campus is designed for imparting vocational technical training to Muslim children who are educated in Madrasa and to prepare them for jobs market.

Designed and being built by Jalal Ahmed Architects.

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Royal Institute of Smart Education (RISE), Sylhet

The campus is being designed as the 1st modern school campus in Sylhet with all the standard facilities of an English medium school. In addition to the academic facilities, the campus also has library, cafeteria, playground, gym, swimming pool , multipurpose hall to serve not only the students but also the residential neighborhood of the newly developed township.

Designed and being built by Jalal Ahmed Architects.

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World University of Bangladesh Permanent Campus, Sector 17, Uttara Third Phase
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Eastern University Permanent Campus, Savar

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Northeast University Permanent Campus, Hetimganj

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European University Permanent Campus, Gabtoli

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Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina arriving at Delhi Airport

Well Thanks have to go to Modi for showing up at the airport to greet Hasina.

But I watched with amazed interest how ad-hoc the whole operation was and how it took ten minutes to roll up the airstairs to the aircraft and to roll out the red carpet in crooked fashion. A full ten minutes? Don't these people do this routinely?

But - nitpicking aside, Thanks are still due to Indian Govt. for their 'Mehmandari'.
 
Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina arriving at Delhi Airport

Well Thanks have to go to Modi for showing up at the airport to greet Hasina.

But I watched with amazed interest how ad-hoc the whole operation was and how it took ten minutes to roll up the airstairs to the aircraft and to roll out the red carpet in crooked fashion. A full ten minutes? Don't these people do this routinely?

But - nitpicking aside, Thanks are still due to Indian Govt. for their 'Mehmandari'.

Seriously that's what you are going to focus on?

This is the actual stuff that counts:


(A light moment shared by both leaders when asked to "step down" at around the 3 minute mark)

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(SHW visibly moved during Modi's speech and Modi giving solid credit to BD for its development surpassing the regional average in many important areas)
 
India and BD have a lot of potential.
There is no history of acrimony between our nations. What ever small differences we have, we have been actively resolving them with calmness and maturity.

Hopefully this continues and the friendship evolves positively..
 
Google promises to open merchant account in Bangladesh
Staff Correspondent, bdnews24.com

Published: 2017-04-09 23:29:07.0 BdST Updated: 2017-04-09 23:29:07.0 BdST
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Technology giant Google Inc will open a merchant account in Bangladesh to take on board the tech-savvy Bangladeshi youth and facilitate their freelance work.

State Minister for Information and Communication Technology Zunaid Ahmed Palak received the assurance from the world’s leading technology firm at a meeting in the US recently.

The Information and Communication Technology Division issued a media statement on Sunday on his visit.

Palak flew to Silicon Valley in California and held separate meetings with the University of California, Berkeley, Facebook Inc., Nuance Communications, and PayPal-Zoom between Mar 31 and Apr 2.

At a meeting with the Google executives, Palak pointed out that Bangladeshi youths have made their mark by developing the technology sector, but they cannot transfer their money for not having a merchant account in Bangladesh.

Google’s Public Policy Senior Counsel Wilson L. White promised to take steps to open the merchant account.

The media statement quoted White as saying that they were keen to work with the ICT Division of Bangladesh to start ‘Google Launchpad’ and ‘Google for Entrepreneur’ programmes.

Both teams agreed to provide technical support to each other in the project ‘Innovation Design and Entrepreneurship Academy’ to enable Bangladeshi start-ups to use Google start-up tools free of cost.

Facebook’s Vice-President Ime Archibong said they were working on ‘Facebook and Billing’ banking channel.

Facebook authorities promised to verify accounts of Bangladeshi opinion leaders, start Facebook workspace at government offices, create opportunity for elected local start-ups at the Facebook developers' conference, and cooperate about the ‘social media expo’ to be held in Bangladesh in May.

Palak also met Nuance Communications Chairman and CEO Paul Richie and urged him to work on natural language processing, screen reading, speech-to-next, text-to-speech and Bangla corpus.

The statement said Richie showed interest to work with the ICT Division in those areas.

Nuance Communications is a software developer that also works as a language research affiliate of Apple Inc and Samsung.

Online money transfer platform PayPal-Xoom said they would start operations in Bangladesh soon, when Palak asked them.
 
“TRUTH IS INCONTROVERTIBLE”

Alleged mass arrest drive against opposition BNP
In a country where truth is not elusive and facts are disseminated for public consumption, which are indispensable in democratic dispensation, then there is optimism for the populace; but lack of this engender pessimism, stir up negativity, and provoke doom and gloom.

Notwithstanding the crucial significance of veracity, insensitive politicking, to the chagrin of the body politic, take incongruous wrong steps, oblivious of the fact that the outcome would certainly be counterproductive having the opposite of the desired effect.
The Rapid Action Battalion (RAB) has earned the notoriety of “death squad” and hence condemned by human rights group. [Vide theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/26/bangladesh-death-squad-killings, and New York-based Human Rights Watch].

In Bangladesh, security forces have killed an estimated 150 protestors since January and detained the prominent human rights defender Adilur Rahman Khan, who was documenting the cases of 61 people allegedly killed by security forces in May 2013. [freedomhouse.org/article quoted CNN dated September 20, 2013]
Not surprisingly, in 2009 shipping minister Shahjahan Khan, in a BBC programme said: “There are incidents of trials that are not possible under the laws of the land. The government will need to continue with extrajudicial killings, commonly called crossfire.”

With extrajudicial killings galore, enforced disappearances of mostly opposition BNP leaders and activists taking place frequently over the last seven years, miserable governance characterised by financial scams of gargantuan proportions in state-owned financial institutions and unbridled corruption as admitted by the finance minister himself, attempts to muzzle the media, the country is in a state of flux as the basic foundation of democracy—-free and fair election—-has been tainted by the ruling Awami League (AL) government.

Broadly speaking, perhaps more than 60 per cent of the electorate support Khaleda, which fact can be proved if a non-party election-time administration holds a general election [not like the 2008 polls held under Army Chief Gen. Moeen U Ahmed; and the totally farcical 5 January 2014 polls [thanks to former Indian foreign secretary Sujatha Singh] under PM Hasina in which 153 lawmakers did not contest and yet could become chosen, unelected Prime Minister, ministers and MPs.].

Previously taken into custody in November 2013 and released after some months, the BNP Joint Secretary General Ruhul Kabir Rizvi—-who was again arrested by RAB at Baridhara in February 2015 and then grilled by police in 36 cases for over 30 consecutive days and released on bail after 10 months —- alleged that the ruling Awami League government has launched a mass arrest drive against its leaders and activists in the name of a countrywide ‘special drive’, reported the Prothom Alo on 24 April 2017.

“Law enforcers are carrying out a wholesale arrest of the leaders and activists of BNP and other parties across the country in the name of a special drive without any ground. The police and detectives are also raiding the houses of our leaders and activists and harassing their family members, including children,” said BNP senior joint secretary general Ruhul Kabir Rizvi adding that several hundred leaders and activists of his party were arrested.
There is cogent reason why Rizvi’s apprehension should be taken seriously. It may seem incredible but true that in March 2015 as many as 69,000 members of Bangladesh opposition parties were accused in 70 cases in Gaibandha—-which is one of the 64 districts in the country.

[Vide progress bangladesh. com/ 69000-members of-bangladesh-opposition and Dhakar News dated 8 March 2015.] BNP senior leader Hannan Shah on 11 November 2015 alleged that the country was heading towards chaos again as law enforcers could not arrest terrorists; rather they were engaged in suppressing the opposition but “not against the terrorists”.[Vide daily asian age. com/ news/ 2169/country -heading dated11 November 2015].
Repression and persecution were happening to the opposition BNP in November 2015, every day “nearly a thousand opposition leaders” were allegedly taken into police custody ahead of the local body polls, while many BNP leaders—including its affable Secretary General ailing Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir—-were rotting in jail.
The Comilla City Corporation (CCC) Mayor Monirul Haque Sakku, a BNP leader, recently won mayoral polls with a margin of 11,085 votes defeating Awami League candidate Ms Anjum Sultana Sima. As were the predictable as well as inevitable fate of all the other opposition BNP leaders who were elected Mayors across the country, a Dhaka court issued on 17 April 2017 arrest warrant against the CCC Mayor Sakku in a corruption case filed by the Anti Corruption Commission (ACC).

Given the usual pattern of brutal political repression towards the main opposition BNP leaders and activists, such coercive suppression is simply unsurprising the Local Government Division under the LGRD ministry has all along been strict only while enforcing the act in cases involving elected representatives backed by the BNP. In recent years, several mayors, upazila chairmen and vice chairmen loyal to the BNP and the Jamaat were suspended after they had been indicted in similar criminal cases.

Taking advantage of the law, the government has recently suspended two pro-BNP mayors of Rajshahi and Sylhet city corporations, Mosaddek Hossain Bulbul and Ariful Huq Chowdhury, twice. Pro-BNP city mayors of Gazipur M A Mannan and Moniruzzaman Moni of Khulna too were suspended. However, all of them regained their mayoral posts as court stayed their suspension orders. [Vide thedailystar.net dated April 19, 2017]

Distinguished British statesman Winston Churchill was of the view that “Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is.” Junior to him by 60 years, a most remarkable inspiring cultural symbol of the last century, rock ‘n’ roll King Elvis Presley regarded truth as identical to the sun and added, “You can shut it out for a time, but it ain’t goin’ away.
 
May 01, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 06:08 PM, May 01, 2017
AL making ‘blueprint’ to cling to power: BNP

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BNP Secretary General Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir on Monday, May 1, 2017, alleges that Awami League is making a blueprint to hang onto power by force to protect the wealth of its leaders and activists amassed illegally. Star file photo
UNB, Dhaka

BNP today alleged that Awami League is making a blueprint to hang onto power by force to protect the wealth of its leaders and activists amassed illegally.
In his brief address prior to taking out a rally by Sramik Dal from in front of BNP's Nayapaltan central office, its secretary general Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir warned that people will foil AL’s all evil designs to perpetuate power.
Referring to AL general secretary Obaidul Quader's comment that their party men will not be able to escape with the money they earned, the BNP leader said, " He (Quader) admitted that they amassed wealth illegally. That's why he told his party colleagues that they will have to cling to power by force."
Speaking at a meeting of the party in Chittagong's Panchalish Quader warned the ruling party activists that they won't be able to flee with the wealth they have made now if their party doesn't remain in power.
Fakhrul alleged that workers are being repressed and deprived of their rights as the current government has been in power without people's mandate.
He urged the workers to get united to install a pro-people government and realise their rights.
 
03:06 PM, May 02, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 03:11 PM, May 02, 2017
BNP always ready for national polls: Fakhrul

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BNP Secretary General Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, says their party is always ready to participate in the next general election if an election-time supportive government and election environment are available. Star file photo

Star Online Report

BNP Secretary General Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir today said their party is always ready to participate in the next general election if an election-time supportive government and election environment are available.

“BNP has 900 prospective candidates in the 300 constituencies,” Fakhrul told reporters after placing wreaths at the grave of late president Ziaur Rahman in Dhaka’s Sher-e-Bangla Nagar.

Flanked by the party’s leaders and activists, Fakhrul went there to mark 28th anniversary of Jatiyatabadi Sramik Dal.

Asked whether BNP has started the work for selecting its prospective candidates for the next general election, Fakhrul said, BNP is an election oriented party as it believes in election.

“BNP is always ready to participate in the election if an election time supportive administration and election atmosphere is ensured,” he added.

Fakhrul said the government has shrunken the space for democracy as it could understand that they have been isolated from people.

“The government is trying to establish one-party rule in the country. A fair and free election in the country will prove that people are not with Awami League,” he added.
 
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