News Flash: JFT carries out a successful WS-13 Flight test.

[mughaljee]

no my friend!

Sir,
Please Clear, are we partner in making WS-13 Project with T.O.T or not.

Always Regards

 

[hataf]

I'll put it this way...will we force ourselves to start developing engines when we are 100% sanctioned with absolutely NO foreign help, like Iran? Hence wait till its absolutely too late and we're in desperation to try something, and end up rushing and fumbling on the way? Or should we begin investing when we do have stable relations with other countries, when it isn't a huge deal to transfer certain technology to Pakistan, when we do have the time and comfort to develop and test our turbofan. Its called keeping maximum contingency...we will not be a respected power unless and until we start thinking along these lines.

post worth million thnaks . . . . . . . . .

 

[Sinnerman108]

Hi,

First of all please get the disrespect feature out of the discussion.

Engine is a SACRED COW---no pun intended---nobody allows you acces to the innards of their engine manufacturing and assembly.

Just because there is an auto manufacturing plant installed---it doesnot mean that it is engine manufacturing plant.

Replicate china's model anddeploy---what kind of statememnt is that---I believe sir that you are getting carried away----and as for as japan---you never heard about the problems that japan had with it fighter jet engine awhile ago.

I understand how industry makes progress---I understand it very well---. Need, desire, ability, honesty, capability, resource, research, funding, ingenuity, free thinking and application amongst other things.

You see----people who are habitually stealing technology never develop any respect for creating that technology---india and china are not comparable examples---their resources and usage is 100 to a 1000 times more than ours.

Now what was that about the missile----missiles are missile---different forms and functions---.

When did you get to that pleateau that your difinitions become different than others?

MK,

I am sorry if you took any offence, none was intended.

What Mark said, would sum up my arguments.

As for further debate, I'm throwing in the towel.

 

[Arsalan]

Sir,
Please Clear, are we partner in making WS-13 Project with T.O.T or not.

Always Regards

frined this is quite clear.

we do not have nay participation on the WS-13 development and production. it is an all China project with Pakistan having nothing to do withit. atleast nothing is said about any such cooperation leading to the fact that we are not involved in it.

now until one is way toooo optimist, this is clearly a Non pakistani affair!!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

Hi,

First of all please get the disrespect feature out of the discussion.

Engine is a SACRED COW---no pun intended---nobody allows you acces to the innards of their engine manufacturing and assembly.

Just because there is an auto manufacturing plant installed---it doesnot mean that it is engine manufacturing plant.

Replicate china's model anddeploy---what kind of statememnt is that---I believe sir that you are getting carried away----and as for as japan---you never heard about the problems that japan had with it fighter jet engine awhile ago.

I understand how industry makes progress---I understand it very well---. Need, desire, ability, honesty, capability, resource, research, funding, ingenuity, free thinking and application amongst other things.

You see----people who are habitually stealing technology never develop any respect for creating that technology---india and china are not comparable examples---their resources and usage is 100 to a 1000 times more than ours.

Now what was that about the missile----missiles are missile---different forms and functions---.

When did you get to that pleateau that your difinitions become different than others?

completetly agreed.

frineds the most important thing that we usually keep on doing the wrong way is being blinded by aprtiotism and in this case we lose the grip of our priorities.
in a post above, it was mentioned that we should be prepared for sanctions and that is why, should make engines,
i mean, now come one, do you really think that in sanctions time, the jet engines will be the most important thing we will be requiring!!

let us put first things first.

even if we talk about airforce, for me investing in avionics, radars, most importantly composities is of more importance. well that is my thoughts taht might be wrong.

but one thing is for sure that there are a hundred more problems that need to be addressed before jumping into this field!!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

to sum up the debate at my end;

we need to keep progressing on the road to self reliance.
we are moving in right direction making a lot of front line equipment in all three departs of military indegeniously and withn foreign collaboration.
our indegenious equipment also have some foreign parts/involvement like Al-Khalid engines, JF-17 Avionics,radars and engine, and same..this needs to be resolved and we must go to the place where we can made all these subsystems at home thus making the pakistan made equipment totally and truely Pakistan Made!
but,
in doing so, we have to put out priorities the right way. this is going to be very very important as it mau lead to triumph or to failuer!!

i hope i have made my point clear!

regards!

 

[MastanKhan]

MK,

I am sorry if you took any offence, none was intended.

What Mark said, would sum up my arguments.

As for further debate, I'm throwing in the towel.

Hi,

It is about time I share my secret with you---I am not here trying to win an argument---I am here to share with young pakistanis as to how difficult the process is to build an engine.

And in doing that---I need the help and assistance from capable people like you to support the idea---once they realize the level of difficulty---it will change their way of thinking. They won't take it for granted---yeah---we can do this just like that.

In my posts I am trying to show a level of difficulty for every issue that we discuss over here---because if there is no difficulty in performing---then the participants don't prepare---and when they don't prepare---they are not mentally ready.

Each and every thing has to be done systematically---the thought process of young people needs to be changed---the mindset over here is that we put one screw on the frame of the JF 17---and half the young ones of this board start assuming to be the inventors of the aviation industry and that boeing depends on pakistan for its parts.

That is the thinking I wanted to change---it needs the help and support of educated people and professionals like you---who are in a position of knowledge and experience.

There is a conept amongst my pakistani colleagues---that if we don't claim that we can do all these impossible feats of engineering----we would act like if we are impotent---and that is the farthest from the truth.

So---don't throw in your towel---okay---.

A few years ago I told a junior member not to throw in the towel---he didnot---but boy did he turn around and bit me in the ar-se

 

[Luftwaffe]

In addition to what MK said,

These western nations start thinking from the point where we stop thinking, this is the fact I've spent 20+ Years outside Pakistan this is not to say we Asians in Pakistan are backward but we've to tuneup our minds to take it to a completely different levels in order to achieve maximum output from out rusted brains. Believe me we can do so much more.

 

[Kompromat]

Can someone solve this Mystery ?

Future
The Pakistan Air Force have offered the FC-1/JF-17 to the Royal Malaysian Air Force. China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and CAC are marketing the FC-1 to potential customers currently including Bangladesh, Egypt and Nigeria, more are likely to follow soon.
Future variants will include a two-seat fully combat-capable training version, which is scheduled to begin flight testing in 2006. It features a lengthened fuselage to accommodate the additional cockpit.

China may also develop its own power plant for the FC-1, although it is also possible that the co-produced version of the Klimov RD-93, called the WS-13, will equip future FC-1s. Also there are plans to include air-to-air refueling probes and modifications incorporating modern avionics.

Pakistan is also looking at adding advanced Western weapons and avionics in the future. It is also looking at the possibility of acquiring anti-radiation missiles, which could be the same as the BVR missile with a different seeker head.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

Is WS-13 co produced ?

 

[Quwa]

Can someone solve this Mystery ?



Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

Is WS-13 co produced ?

From the same link...

The FC-1 design of today has little in common with the J-7 and is believed to be based on Mikoyan's concept for a single-engine fighter based on the MiG-29.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....
When the supplier website is unsure about the origins of its advertised product, you know the source is a little suspect. That said, I would suspect PAF to have some input in WS-13 in terms of the performance parameters its looking for in the engine: Maybe there's scope for WS-13 to have more thrust, lighter in weight, TVC, etc..

 

[MastanKhan]

From the same link...

I would suspect PAF to have some input in WS-13 in terms of the performance parameters its looking for in the engine: Maybe there's scope for WS-13 to have more thrust, lighter in weight, TVC, etc..

Hi,

That is not input---that is just known as one of the requirements of the end user.

Next time some pakistani might tighten a coupling on he engine and pakistani members would say--we are manufacturing the ws 13---give me a break Mark.

The co production version is directed toward sthe chinese and the russians.

 

[Luftwaffe]

FoGod sakes StealthQL, this is JF-17 thread what is wrong with you can MK not give his inputs in this thread focusing JF-17?, open flood relieve thread, as far as donation goes this is personal matter of others.

 

[Quwa]

Hi,

That is not input---that is just known as one of the requirements of the end user.

Next time some pakistani might tighten a coupling on he engine and pakistani members would say--we are manufacturing the ws 13---give me a break Mark.

The co production version is directed toward sthe chinese and the russians.

You took one line and manage to climb up 9 steps up in the air with it...did I specify what sort of input? Did I say it was industrial input? No. Did I say it was R&D expertise? No. Did I say it was related to blade material, FADEC or any thing so specific? No. I think you'll find that you'll agitate other members less and have people stop skipping over your "inputs" when you stop misconstruing others' points. If you were unsure (which I know you were because I know my points) then you just could've asked for clarification.

At the end of the day, Pakistan is a co-financier of the JF-17 program and has a significant stake in the program - both in its domestic scope and for potential exports. Even when determining performance parameters, it isn't solely setting the bar but also trying to figure out the specific means to accomplish those goals. These 'means' can involve certain methods, technologies, etc (no matter how small) where Pakistan can offer to China. And did I say such input constitutes as co-production? Nope. Though with the nature of Pakistani defence matters, we can't be 100% sure either way until the final word comes out...i.e. no one initially thought that Falco UAV would be license built (even partially) at PAC until the very end.

 

[MastanKhan]

^^^^

MastanKhan, can you focus on Pakistan's Floods instead obsession on JF-17 ??? Have you done anything for Pakistan or donation yet?

Hi,

As you asked---$600 so far---hopefully I can do some more----would that be okay with you!

I can tell you that times are very tough here in the u s---but I will do what is in my meagre capabilities.

 

[MastanKhan]

You took one line and manage to climb up 9 steps up in the air with it...did I specify what sort of input? Did I say it was industrial input? No. Did I say it was R&D expertise? No. Did I say it was related to blade material, FADEC or any thing so specific? No. I think you'll find that you'll agitate other members less and have people stop skipping over your "inputs" when you stop misconstruing others' points. If you were unsure (which I know you were because I know my points) then you just could've asked for clarification.

At the end of the day, Pakistan is a co-financier of the JF-17 program and has a significant stake in the program - both in its domestic scope and for potential exports. Even when determining performance parameters, it isn't solely setting the bar but also trying to figure out the specific means to accomplish those goals. These 'means' can involve certain methods, technologies, etc (no matter how small) where Pakistan can offer to China. And did I say such input constitutes as co-production? Nope. Though with the nature of Pakistani defence matters, we can't be 100% sure either way until the final word comes out...i.e. no one initially thought that Falco UAV would be license built (even partially) at PAC until the very end.

Hi,

See---you opened up the flanks----and now getting angry at me---a simple answer would have been---" no---pakistan is not involved in the WS 13 design and manufacture---. Jet engine manufacturers normally don't like outsiders / end users to be involved in the design parameters "---and that would have killed the discussion---but no---you had to say what you did---.