New semi digital camouflage of Pakistan Army.

[wakapdf]

Its only for the COAS, since he's the only one wearing it. I doubt that the army is going to go with newer camo. Maybe in the long run but definitely not in the near future.

 

[Xeric]

kuch hamari ghareebi ka hi khyal ker leen sir jee .apny taan ke kapry bech ker apni army ko uniform banwa dety hain like our parents did for our school uniforms .

Ab itna gadar bhi nahi macha hoa janab.

Anwayz, changing uniforms does not strain the national exchequer in any way. As a function of common sense, new uniforms are only procured (by Officers) and issued to jawans once the life of the older uniforms issued to them expires.

So, it's more of an exercise just for the PS Directorate , nothing else with no repercussions for you or any other Pakistani.

The max you guys would suffer/could do is monger about it on PDF

 

[airmarshal]

Three things I hate about Pakistan army uniform.

1. Its a hodgepodge of US and British uniform. There are shoulder markings that are British and then there are markings on the collar which are American.

2. These's also a tag at the front of the shirt with embroidered rank which is British.

3. The military officers holding a stick. I totally hate it. This was an old, old fashion and Pakistan army should better do without it.

But then that my opinion and it holds no value!

 

[Xeric]

Three things I hate about Pakistan army uniform.

1. Its a hodgepodge of US and British uniform. There are shoulder markings that are British and then there are markings on the collar which are American.

2. These's also a tag at the front of the shirt with embroidered rank which is British.

The new uniform DOES NOT have shoulder markings any more, and hence the collar markings and the tag at the front - the collar marking shows which Arm you belong to and the tag carries your rank.

This is done to make Officers/Appointment holders less 'visible' during war, especially against snipers and stuff.

And the tag is not specific to the British as of today, the Americans also wear tag ranks.

3. The military officers holding a stick. I totally hate it. This was an old, old fashion and Pakistan army should better do without it.

But then that my opinion and it holds no value!

Unfortunately, as you rightly pointed out yourself hat your hate or love for something doesnt carry any value, so it clears this up. BTW, its not called a stick, but a 'cane.

 

[airmarshal]

The new uniform DOES NOT have shoulder markings any more, and hence the collar markings and the tag at the front - the collar marking shows which Arm you belong to and the tag carries your rank.

This is done to make Officers/Appointment holders less 'visible' during war, especially against snipers and stuff.

And the tag is not specific to the British as of today, the Americans also wear tag ranks.



Unfortunately, as you rightly pointed out yourself hat your hate or love for something doesnt carry any value, so it clears this up. BTW, its not called a stick, but a 'cane.

Why do they carry a cane? Does that make them more powerful or arrogant?

 

[Rank]

eek sawaal aya hey zehan mayy ye digital kapray pehanay say fauj digital hojati hey ?

 

[Xeric]

Why do they carry a cane? Does that make them more powerful or arrogant?

Yes, especially if they are talking to a provoker like yourself.

Anywaz, the cane or a stick or a swagger stick is a traditional item. Drill Instructors carried them as "Pace Sticks" to measures paces/distances considered vital for drill/marching.

Cavalry officers carry walking sticks as a tradition in reference to WW-1 tank attacks, when officers would prepare lines of advance by testing the ground's firmness and suitability for tanks.


Nevertheless, it is still carried today as a symbol of authority among Commanders, that's to say, only those Officers who are in command of a body of troops are allowed to carry a cane to signify authority among that troops - Armies used to be large, most soldiers couldnt even recognize who their commander was if he happens to be among other officers.

Officers on Staff or in Instructional capacity do not carry canes.

So, there's a purpose behind it.

Now if you still want to act like an idiot, be my guest.

 

[blain2]

I debate the , effectiveness of the uniform vs Heat signitures from airborn threats etc drones and apache

That is a case with all uniforms, not just Pakistanis ones and besides, the purpose of the uniform is not to hide the heat signature, its essentially for concealment in the operating terrain.

You can probably call that 'semi-digital' camouflage. Nevertheless, this uniform is better than older analogue uniform.

"Analogue"? :-D Nothing analogue about the previous one. Its just woodland pattern in different shades.

eek sawaal aya hey zehan mayy ye digital kapray pehanay say fauj digital hojati hey ?

In all seriousness, the value of the digital pattern is questionable, thus there hasn't been a mad rush to adopt it everywhere.

 

[airmarshal]

Yes, especially if they are talking to a provoker like yourself.


So, there's a purpose behind it.

Now if you still want to act like an idiot, be my guest.

What ticks you off so much? Accept it. Its a stupid piece of accessory that does not in any way show a position of authority. Most modern armies have shed this decades ago.

Your idea of leadership is that the leader must be seen as aloof, detached,arrogant and some distant species. Well, honestly this is how leaders in Pakistan are. All leaders at every level. Be it army, politics or bureaucracy.

The new idea of leadership is all inclusive. Where the leader is incongruous. The leader shows hi leadership skills by actions, not holding sticks or cane as you want to call it.

Our idea of leadership is inspired by a colonial leader. Thats unfortunately we are still stuck.

Respond if you can counter with substance. If you want to call me an 'idiot' to show you have more knowledge or someone superior, then better dont respond

 

[Last Hope]

eek sawaal aya hey zehan mayy ye digital kapray pehanay say fauj digital hojati hey ?

Digital camouflage makes the soldier much more 'stealth' for eyes (and depending on material, reduced IR signature) making it harder to spot. The more fine digital graphics are, the better the camouflage is.


(Blain, Xeric (and others); I know you would get carried away but best not divert the thread.)

 

[Imran Khan]

Why do they carry a cane? Does that make them more powerful or arrogant?

you forget one thing sir

Ajj se ye danda apka hoa qaum is se seedhi rehti hai

 

[blain2]

One simple answer to your question AM, its about the "tradition". Yes it could be done away with, but the traditions have a place in the military. Its about the institution of the "Commanding Officer" and maintaining this institution in the way it was meant to be. Over time things will change, get added, dropped, but this change happens gradually. At a very basic level, you may say the cane/stick has become redundant. Sure it has for you but for those wanting to retain the institution of command, this is probably something that needs to be retained. Some may say the idea of drill/musketry has also become redundant as Armies do not need to spend a lot of time with their troops on marching and things like bayonet charge etc. But the reality is that all these things happen very slowly and gradually in organizations that are conventional and old fashioned in their outlook (which certainly is the case with most militaries).

you forget one thing sir

Ajj se ye danda apka hoa qaum is se seedhi rehti hai

That by the way is the symbolic command baton and not the cane.

 

[Xeric]

What ticks you off so much? Accept it. Its a stupid piece of accessory that does not in any way show a position of authority. Most modern armies have shed this decades ago.

Your idea of leadership is that the leader must be seen as aloof, detached,arrogant and some distant species. Well, honestly this is how leaders in Pakistan are. All leaders at every level. Be it army, politics or bureaucracy.

The new idea of leadership is all inclusive. Where the leader is incongruous. The leader shows hi leadership skills by actions, not holding sticks or cane as you want to call it.

Our idea of leadership is inspired by a colonial leader. Thats unfortunately we are still stuck.

Respond if you can counter with substance. If you want to call me an 'idiot' to show you have more knowledge or someone superior, then better dont respond

Stop acting like a cry baby, that's one.

Two, nothing will become stupid just because your highness has said so.

Three, you dont have an iota of understanding what leadership is, you have merely been using 'leadership' in lieu of command/chieftain/captain. First, try to educate yourself regarding the differences that exists between these two states, then may be you can try lecturing me on Leadership. Here, this would be a guud start http://www.fatherwaltersparish.org/uploads/Leader_vs.Commander.pdf

Four, there's a reason militarymen are called military-leaders, not military-commanders. Or else there shouldnt have been a constant causality ratio of one Pakistani Army Officer against every 10 Pakistani soldiers since '47, '65, '71, Kargil and now during Op R.Rast/Nijat.

 

[Xeric]

The last change that was made in the uniform was related to bring it at par with other modern militaries with changes like no brass rank badges, no colorful Formation Signs/ Insignia Badges (Paratrooping, Sky diving etc) and no service ribbons. Now in order to perfect the design this (final) change has been made so that the uniform conforms to the international standards not only in its form/outlook but also in its design (color/camo pattern).

The only thing that is now left to be done is to change the cloth to wrinkle-free, but i guess our tax payers can afford it as of yet (Soldiers, Officers are issued uniforms free of cost).

But i think it's high time that we should also change the cloth to wrinkle-free, as Wash-and-War soldiers are going to save more money in terms of the current expenditure required for ironing/dry cleaning of the same uniform.

Typo.
Correction: (Soldiers, NOT Officers are issued uniforms free of cost)

 

[Icarus]

Typo error.
Correction: (Soldiers, NOT Officers are issued uniforms free of cost)

NCOs and above have to buy their uniforms, am I correct? Plus, any news on the induction of the new camo print? I'm not seeing any changes in the uniform shops around my area.