What's new

New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56

Zarvan

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
54,470
Reaction score
87
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
soldier_M4.jpg


After carrying the M16 or one of its cousins across the globe for more than half a century, soldiers could get a peek at a new prototype assault rifle that fires a larger round by 2020.

Army researchers are testing half a dozen ammunition variants in “intermediate calibers,” which falls between the current 7.62 mm and 5.56 mm rounds, to create a new light machine gun and inform the next-generation individual assault rifle/round combo.

The weapon designs being tested will be “unconventional,” officials said, and likely not one that is currently commercially available.

Some intermediate calibers being tested include the .260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmoor, .264 USA as well as other non-commercial intermediate calibers, including cased telescoped ammo, Army officials said.

If selected by senior leaders, the weapon could resolve a close-quarters weapons debate about calibers that critics say dates to the 1920s and has influenced military small arms ever since.

If successful, the new rifle and round combination would give troops a weapon they can carry with about the same number of rounds as the current 5.56 mm but with greater range and accuracy in their firepower — with little change in weight.

The new rifle would likely replace the M16/M4 platform, which has been in the hands of troops since the 1960s and undergone multiple modifications and upgrades.

Maj. Jason Bohannon, lethality branch chief at the Army’s Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning, Georgia, and Matt Walker, deputy director of the branch and a retired command sergeant major, spoke recently to Army Times about broad efforts in small arms weapons research and development.

‘Better option’

Work on the new round began in recent years, Bohannon said, and much of the next steps in developing both the round and rifle will be driven by the Small Arms Ammunition Configuration study.

The study has been going on since at least 2014, according to the Army.

The study is expected to conclude in the next three months, Walker said.

Portions of that report and its findings will likely be made public, but other portions may be deemed sensitive, they said.

Multiple active and retired military arms advocates and industry experts have presented papers and data on the alleged “overmatch” that U.S. troops face on the battlefield with their current calibers.

One oft-noted recent study was authored by then-Army Maj. Thomas Ehrhart, who wrote a 2009 paper titled, “Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afghanistan: Taking back the Infantry Half-Kilometer.”

The paper drew from soldiers’ experience in Afghanistan firefights.

Ehrhart wrote that half of the firefights infantry units in Afghanistan encountered were past 300 meters, and the 5.56 mm round had lessened lethality at longer distances.

He offered two solutions — a more effective 5.56 mm round, or the “better option” of adopting a caliber in the 6.5 mm to 7 mm range.

The major then cited a 2006 study by the Joint Service Wound Ballistics–Integrated Product Team, which also named the ideal caliber in the 6.5 mm to 7 mm size.

arm-rifle-3.jpg

Soldiers from 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, pull security during an exercise at the National Training Center, Fort Irwin, Calif. Army officials said they’re developing new weapons systems to give soldiers, especially at the squad and platoon levels, as much firepower as possible.
Photo Credit: Sgt. Eric M. Garland/Army

Decades-old debate

This isn’t the first time ammunition experts have reached that conclusion.

“There is a long-running debate, going back almost 100 years now, about the optimal, optimum small arm,” said retired Maj. Gen. Robert Scales, author of the 2016 book “Scales on War: The Future of America’s Military at Risk.”

Scales pointed to the development of the M1 rifle by John Garand in the 1920s.

At the time, Garand built both a .30 caliber and a .276 caliber version of the rifle.

But a surplus of .30 caliber ammunition from World War I, coupled later with the financial constraints of the Great Depression, led to senior defense officials and political leaders calling for a .30 caliber rifle.

The M1’s design eventually evolved into the M14. Both rifles share a 7.62 mm or .30 caliber bore. But the M14 was soon discarded when, in the 1960s, Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay purchased the early version of the M16 for some Air Force units.

The M16 was then adopted across the branches and fielded for service in Vietnam, where troops reported frequent jamming and malfunctions in early versions of the weapon.

One case, detailed in the 2010 book “The Gun,” by former Marine and award-winning journalist C.J. Chivers, grabbed national attention during the Vietnam War when Marine 1st Lt. Michael Chervenak wrote an open letter that recounted his company’s experiences with the new rifle jamming in combat.

The letter led to hearings in Congress and, along with other incidents, contributed to decades of controversy, modifications and adaptations, which resulted in the current M4 variants, which continue to have their supporters and critics.

Maj. Thomas Campbell, a spokesman for Army Training and Doctrine Command, provided Army Times with the results of a nine-year, post-deployment survey of 9,000 soldiers conducted by the command.

The survey saw 80 percent of troops rate the M4 as “effective or better.”

The survey did not compare the M4 to other weapons, but instead asked the respondents to rate the overall effectiveness of the weapon in the performance of their duties while deployed, Campbell said.

Time to invest

The aging M16/M4 platform is nearing the end of its life cycle, Bohannon said.

“Right now the [M16/M4] platform we have is a workhorse and very effective in the hands of a trained soldier or Marine,” he said.

But, Walker at Maneuver Center added, the Army can’t continue to ask more of the weapon system that has been in service for so long.

“Our next investment will likely be in a new operating platform,” Bohannon said.

arm-rifle-4.jpg

Spc. Timothy Squires, an infantryman assigned to 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division, scans his sector of fire during squad-level training in Kosovo.
Photo Credit: Staff Sgt. Thomas Duval/Army

Critics of the M16/M4 and the 5.56 mm round say no matter what has been done to improve the M16 and its subsequent variations, the 5.56 mm round lacks the range and lethality needed in modern firefights.

Some of the concerns Scales said he believes are driving military leaders to finally look at an alternative to the 5.56 mm and the M16/M4 include:

— Improvements in adversaries’ body armor, which make the 5.56 mm less lethal.

— Current adversaries such as the Islamic State terror group and others using bigger rounds with more reach against U.S. troops, creating an overmatch.

— Jamming problems with M16/M4 variants that continue to plague the design.

At the 2016 National Defense Industrial Association Armament Systems Forum, retired Brig. Gen. Dave Grange and Jim Schatz, an Army veteran and weapons expert who has since passed away, each gave presentations calling for a new “intermediate caliber” in the 6.5 mm range.

They also referenced the Russian, Islamic State and al-Qaida advantages with longer-reaching and more lethal weapons, including reports of Russian work on their own 6.5 mm assault rifle.

But, Scales said, one of the problems that led to the .30 caliber being adopted over the 6.5 mm nearly a century ago still remains — an abundance of 5.56 mm ammunition stockpiled across U.S. military commands and NATO, whose nations fire the 5.56 mm and 7.62 mm as part of an ammunition standardization agreement made decades ago.

Other weapons work

Meanwhile, the Army’s Maneuver Center isn’t the only entity looking at new or existing small arms replacements.

Marine Corps Times, a sister publication of Army Times, recently reported the Marines are considering equipping nearly every Marine 0311 infantryman with the M27, which first hit the fleet in large quantities in 2010.

The M27 is seen by experts as superior to the M4 in reliability and increased range. But, at $3,000, it runs three times the cost of an M4 and is still chambered in 5.56 mm.


Marine Corps Times
The Corps' quest for the best rifle for infantrymen

U.S. Special Operations Command is currently testing a new commercially available sniper rifle using the .260 Remington and 6.5 mm Creedmoor rounds, which “stay supersonic longer, have less wind drift and better terminal performance than 7.62 mm ammunition,” said Maj. Aron Hauquitz.

SOCOM is also developing polymer ammunition in 6.5 mm to reduce the weight load.

Current research is showing polymer 6.5 mm reducing weight by one-third from 7.62 mm, reaching nearly the same weight as conventional brass 5.56 mm.

Both regular Army weapons researchers at the Maneuver Center and Marine Corps weapons experts are monitoring the SOCOM testing, officials said.


Military Times
Special Operations Command is looking at a new 6.5 mm round for its sniper rifle

Textron Systems, a private defense industry company, conducted a caliber study using a specially designed .264 caliber cartridge which they said resulted in “terminal effects greater than 7.62 mm NATO out to 1,200 meters” in both their carbine and machine gun.

Data provided by the company showed the machine gun is 7 pounds lighter than the 7.62 mm M240L with 800 rounds of their lightweight ammunition, lowering the combat load by 27 pounds.

The machine gun is also lighter than the M249 SAW, wrote Paul Shipley, chief engineer of light armaments for the company.

While SOCOM is looking at immediate fixes and off-the-shelf options, Bohannon said that the Maneuver Center and related entities working on weapons issues for the regular Army “invests in more revolutionary, long-term” solutions.

Bohannon said that his team has weekly meetings with officials involved with the Joint Service Small Arms Requirements Integration working group, which includes all the services and SOCOM.

While the Army continues to explore existing intermediate rifle/round combinations, their work is only to provide options for senior leadership to choose and then request funding, Bohannon said.

He did not provide cost estimates or a timeline for the potential replacement.

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/...inside-the-armys-plan-to-ditch-the-m4-and-556

@Horus @balixd @Arsalan @Path-Finder
 
Hazrat @Zarvan the cartridge they want has already been made 65 years ago and its .280 British


not adopting this cartridge is haunting them now!!
 
6.5x49 (creedmoor) is what I've been saying all along. Too bad it greatly reduces the barrel life of a rifle. Not suitable for poor countries or countries with large armies. Excellent range and accuracy - better than the 7.62x51. None of them will have the stopping power of a 7.62x39 or 7.62x51. But way better than the 5.56. 6.5 creedmoor is good for 800 yds + which would bring in engagement issues as a normal soldier shouldn't even be shooting out that far without knowing/id'ing his/her target properly.

Pak is going to induct a generational platform in an old caliber while the developed world moves on to newer and better things.
 
6.5x49 (creedmoor) is what I've been saying all along. Too bad it greatly reduces the barrel life of a rifle. Not suitable for poor countries or countries with large armies. Excellent range and accuracy - better than the 7.62x51. None of them will have the stopping power of a 7.62x39 or 7.62x51. But way better than the 5.56. 6.5 creedmoor is good for 800 yds + which would bring in engagement issues as a normal soldier shouldn't even be shooting out that far without knowing/id'ing his/her target properly.

Pak is going to induct a generational platform in an old caliber while the developed world moves on to newer and better things.

I still maintain .280 British is superior. It was a shame that US threw its weight about and first forced 7.62x51 then 5.56! If they had adopted .280 British then the problems would never have arise.
.280.jpg
 
6.5 creedmoor travels faster, further, with less drift and more energy and penetration capabilities at target. It can also fit into an ar-15/assault rifle case. 7mm+ gets you into the battle rifle platform along with its associated weight issues...

6.0/6.5mm are also being tested as caseless ammo, further reducing costs and weight...
 
Lawmakers press for better rifles, bigger bullets for soldiers, Marines



As the Army continues to develop a potential replacement for the M4, for a handful of senators, replacing the carbine and 5.56 mm round with a new bullet and better rifle is a no brainer.

During a Senate Armed Services Committee subcommittee hearing this week, members heard testimony from two retired Army generals who have been staunch advocates for getting a new rifle into the hands of at least infantry and special operations troops.

Sen. Angus King, I-Maine, asked retired Maj. Gen. Robert Scales if the M4 with the 5.56 mm round can pierce new Russian body armor.

Scales replied that it does not.

“Isn’t that the end of the discussion?” King said. “We’ve got to have a new weapon.”

But changing the standard rifle issued to all service members in all branches isn’t so easy.

Sen. Joni Ernst, a Republican from Iowa and retired Army lieutenant colonel, requested the hearing, which took place Wednesday. She has been a vocal proponent for changing the rifle, raising the issue with retired Marine Gen. Jim Mattis during his confirmation hearing to become secretary of defense.

“There is an immediate need here,” Ernst said.

And she ended the hearing by emphasizing she and others on the committee will see the project through to its “fruition.”


Army Times
New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56

In fact, subcommittee chairman Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., asked that simple question of the retired two-star.

“Why is this so hard?” said Cotton, a former Army infantry officer who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He also pointed out that a rifle is not a missile system, an aircraft carrier or a new supersonic jet.

Scales said the acquisition system being used by the Defense Department is what's preventing progress. The same system used to develop stealth bombers is being used to replace a 7-pound rifle, he said.


Army Times
Army chief: You want a new pistol? Send me to Cabela's with $17 million

Though the title of the hearing was “Small Arms Reform,” most of the hour-long conversation centered around the individual assault rifle.

But Scales, along with retired Lt. Gen. John Bednarek, made it clear to the senators that even though they believe a new rifle and round combination is necessary across the board, the priority should be for those who do the “nasty business” of closing with and killing the enemy – infantry, special operations and those personnel who work directly with them.

One hurdle, the generals said, is “pure fleeting,” a standard that all troops at all levels, whether payroll clerks or infantrymen, be issued the same weapon in the same caliber.

The senators seemed to agree, noting the different functions of each job and the necessity for different capabilities within small arms.

Bednarek did note that a new rifle should also be fielded with the same infantry and ground combat units in the National Guard and Reserve, so that if called upon, they would be trained and ready with the same capability.


Military Times
Special Operations Command is looking at a new 6.5 mm round for its sniper rifle

Finding an intermediate caliber rifle to replace the M16 and M4 would increase range, lethality and accuracy without adding significant weight to the individual soldier or Marine, both generals said.

The pressing issue is that adversaries have greater range with their weapons, which are usually in the 7 mm family. In addition, recent intelligence shows Russian body armor that can withstand a 5.56 mm bullet.

The Army’s Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning, Georgia, recently told Military Times that it is looking at half a dozen variants of rounds in the 6.5 mm range, and that the new weapon system it is developing will not be an M16/M4-type of assault rifle.

But prototypes might not be available until 2020 or later.

Scales said one of the problems with defense acquisition is the long timelines. Five to seven years to develop a new rifle is unacceptable, he said. Scales said the job could be done in a year or two with a competition or even looking at commercial-off-the-shelf options.

King specifically asked Scales if there was an available rifle/round combination that could be purchased off the shelf. He said there was, adding that the Marines are in the process of purchasing the Heckler and Koch 417 or the M27 in 5.56 mm, and the Army is purchasing the same rifle in the 7.62 mm variant for squad designated marksmen.

The rifle could be chambered for a 6.5 mm family round without too much modification, Scales said. The magazine can already accommodate either 5.56 mm or 6.5 mm ammunition.

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/...er-rifles-bigger-bullets-for-soldiers-marines
 
Army to Gunmakers: Show Us a New 7.62mm Service Rifle


m4-soldier-1800-ts600.jpg

Army Staff Sgt. Dennis Marcely, with the 10th Combat Aviation Brigade, conducts M4 qualification at Oberdachstetten Range Complex in Germany on April 28, 2017. Visual Information Specialist Warkentin Eugen/Army

Military.com | 2 Jun 2017 | by Matthew Cox

U.S. Army weapons officials have launched a survey to see what gunmakers can offer for an off-the-shelf 7.62mm Interim Combat Service Rifle.

The May 31 request for information, known in acquisition parlance as an RFI, on behalf of Product Manager Individual Weapons, is an attempt to "identify sources for a combat rifle system" and determine the potential cost and lead time to deliver up to 10,000 weapon systems, according to the document.

The request comes in the wake of Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley told lawmakers Congress last week that the M4 Carbine's current 5.56mm round can't penetrate modern enemy body armor plates and that he's considering arming infantry units with rifles chambered for a more potent 7.62mm cartridge.

"The rifle must be a Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) system readily available for purchase today. Modified or customized systems are not being considered," according to the document, which specifies that the caliber must be 7.62x51mm.

Milley told Senate Armed Services Committee members May 25 that Army officials at the Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning in Georgia, have developed a new 7.62mm round capable of penetrating enemy body armor plates similar to U.S. military-issue rifle plates such as the Enhanced Small Arms Protective Insert, or ESAPI.

Milley told lawmakers the Army might not require a new rifle since weapons can be chambered for various calibers. The M4, however, would require a new barrel, bolt carrier group, and buffer system in addition to a new lower receiver to shoot 7.62mm ammo, experts maintain.

Milley also told lawmakers that not every soldier will need a 7.62mm rifle -- that they could be issued to those infantry units most likely to deploy on contingency operations and engage in close combat.

The Army would want an Interim Combat Service Rifle to have either 16-inch or 20-inch barrels, a collapsible buttstock, an extended forward rail, and a detachable magazine of at least 20 rounds, the RFI states. The rifle should weigh less than 12 pounds unloaded and without an optic.

Interested companies have until 3 p.m. June 6 to submit their responses to the RFI.

"The information provided may be used by the Army in developing its Acquisition Strategy, Performance Work Statement and Performance Specification," according the document. "This Request For Information (RFI) is for planning purposes only and should not be construed as a Request for Proposal or as an obligation on the part of the Government to acquire any services or hardware."

In June 2013, the Army ended a five-year effort to replace the M4 with an Improved Carbine. Instead, the service decided to replace the standard M4 with the M4A1, as a result of its M4 Product Improvement Program.

The M4A1 is the special operations version of the weapon that's been in use for more than a decade. It features a heavier barrel and a full-auto trigger. The Army's decision to dump the current three-round burst trigger will give shooters a more consistent trigger pull and lead to better accuracy, weapons officials maintain.

-- Matthew Cox can be reached at matthew.cox@military.com.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...w-762mm-service-rifle.html?ESRC=todayinmil.sm
 
Perfect Example of "Tongue in CHEEK" Statement.

Years Back 7.62mm was ridiculed for being heavy in one shot it gave the kill...
Then came the 70s and Yanks started speaking 5.56 more rounds --- Injury Delay Tactic

Balls of the Highest Order....This is Biggest Baloney -- Of the Century...

All Armies will now revert to Higher Caliber from 5.56

All Jesters in Court are now Hoping on the Study !!
 
Last edited:
The rate at which body armor is improving and being widely procured and used worldwide,Battle rifle are going to make a comeback soon or later.
 
Back
Top Bottom