new pakistan military helicopters?

[DANGER-ZONE]

hi folks,pak army COBRAs r good helicopter,and much advance version of the entire COBRA gunship(except of that which was used by us navy).but they r not so much good as compared to the helicopters which r in service now days in the world like(apachi,eurocopter tiger,mi-24,ka50,52.etc)and i think they will be grounded soon after 5 or 10 years.
so,do u guys ever think that wat should pakistan buy for near future as a attack helicopter.

1-WZ 10.

2-EUROCOPTER TIGER.

3-KA50/52

KA52 COCKPIT

KA50 COCKPIT

im really not in favor of buying USA products like APACHI,because they would never let us buy APACHI.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

if pakistan is going for tactical transportation heli then i perfer the beauty v22 osprey.

 

[TOPGUN]

Who knows wat the future holds ??

 

[Xeric]

@Danger, why dont you give us little detail on all the helis that you have referred to, may be some characteristics/pros-cons on each of them can get the argument started.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

@Danger, why dont you give us little detail on all the helis that you have referred to, may be some characteristics/pros-cons on each of them can get the argument started.

y not sir,they will b here after a cuople of minuts.hold on ur seats.

 

[TOPGUN]

Yes lets have the detlais for the heli's thanks.

 

[Owais]

in my opinion, used and upgraded super cobra (AH1W) from USN will be best for PA. but they are sanction prone like other US equipment.

The second option is chinese WZ-10 gunship. it will be less costly and we can get them from our all weather friend.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

im a little bit late b/c my service disconected rit after i wrote the last post just because i didnt write INSHALLAH.well wat ever

KA 50/52---DETAILS
HISTORY:
First Flight (Ka-50) 27 June 1982
(Ka-50N) 5 March 1997
(Ka-52) 25 June 1997
Service Entry

28 August 1995


CREW: (Ka-50) 1 pilot
(Ka-52) 1 pilot and 1 weapons officer


ESTIMATED COST:

484 million rubles (approx. $15 million) as of May 2009


AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Rotor Blade Root unknown
Rotor Blade Tip

unknown


DIMENSIONS:
Length 52.50 ft (16.00 m) rotors turning
49.21 ft (15.00 m) ignoring rotors
Rotor Diameter 47.57 ft (14.50 m)
Wingspan 24.08 ft (7.34 m)
Height 16.17 ft (4.93 m) to top of rotor head
Rotor Disk Area

3,555.0 ft2 (330.26 m2)


WEIGHTS:
Empty 16,955 lb (7,690 kg)
Typical Load (Ka-50) 21,605 lb (9,800 kg)
(Ka-52) 22,930 lb (10,400 kg)
Max Takeoff 23,810 lb (10,800 kg)
Fuel Capacity internal: 495 gal (1,870 L)
external: up to 580 gal (2,200 L) in four 145 gal (550 L) underwing tanks
Max Payload

6,615 lb (3,000 kg)
3,995 lb (1,810 kg) of expendable weapons


PROPULSION:
Powerplant two Klimov TV3-117VMA turboshafts
Thrust 4,400 hp (3,280 kW)


PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude: unknown
at sea level: 195 mph (310 km/h)
cruise speed: 170 mph (270 km/h)
sideways: 45 mph (70 km/h)
backwards: 55 mph (90 km/h)
dive speed: 215 mph (350 km/h)
Maximum Climb Rate 1,970 ft (600 m) / min
Service Ceiling 18,030 ft (5,500 m)
Hover Ceiling
(out of ground effect) (Ka-50) 13,125 ft (4,000 m)
(Ka-52) 11,810 ft (3,600 m)
Range typical: 250 nm (460 km)
ferry: 625 nm (1,160 km)
Endurance unknown
g-Limits (Ka-50) +3.5
(Ka-52) +3


ARMAMENT:
Gun one 2A42 30-mm cannon (500 rds max, 280 rds typical)
Stations 2 stub-wings with 4 hardpoints and 2 wingtip hardpoints
Air-to-Air Missile R-60/AA-8 Aphid, R-73/AA-11 Archer, Igla-V
Air-to-Surface Missile up to 12 AT-9 Ataka or AT-16 Vikhr anti-tank, Kh-25ML/AS-10 Karen anti-radiation, Kh-25MP/AS-12 Kegler
Bomb FAB-250/500, KAB-500Kr
Other up to four 20-round B-8 80-mm rocket pods, up to four 5-round 122-mm rocket pods, UPK-23-250 gun pod, GUV-8700 machine gun pod, PLAB weapons dispenser, chaff/flare pods


KNOWN VARIANTS:
Ka-50 'Hokum-A' Single-seat attack helicopter; 12 built by 1994
Ka-50N Night attack model with a FLIR/LLTV/laser designator system located in the nose, may also be equipped with a mast-mounted radar
Ka-52 'Hokum-B' Two-seat model equipped for command and control as well as combat reconnaissance
Ka-52 trainer Two-seat trainer model
Ka-52 EW Electronic warfare model equipped with jamming equipment

 

[Owais]

Specifications WZ-10 (estimated)

General characteristics

* Crew: 2
* Length: 14.15 m (ft)
* Rotor diameter: 13.0 m [4] (ft)
* Height: 3.85 m (ft)
* Disc area: m² (ft²)
* Empty weight: 5540 kg [4] (lb)
* Loaded weight: kg (lb)
* Useful load: 1500 kg [4] (lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 7000 kg (lb)
* Powerplant: 2× WZ-9 turboshafts [4], 957 kw (1285 hp) each

Performance

* Maximum speed: 300+ km/h [4]
* Cruise speed: 270+ km/h [4]
* Ferry range: 800+ km [4] ()
* Service ceiling: 6400 m (ft)
* Rate of climb: over 11+ m/s [4] (ft/min)
* Disc loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)

* Maximum acceleration: +3 g (29 m/s²)

Armament

* Guns: 23 mm or 30 mm autocannon mounted on chin turret
* Hardpoints: 4
* Rockets: 57 mm, 90 mm multi-barrel unguided rocket pods
* Air-to-surface missiles: Up to 8 ATGM
* Air-to-air missiles:
o Up to 8 TY-90
o Up to 4 PL-5, PL-7, PL-9

Avionics

* YH millimetre-wave fire-control radar
* YH-96 electronic warfare suite


AH-1W SuperCobra

General characteristics

* Crew: 2: pilot, CPG (co-pilot/gunner)
* Length: 44 ft 7 in (13.6 m)
* Rotor diameter: 48 ft (14.6 m)
* Height: 13 ft 5 in (4.1 m)
* Disc area: 530.83 ft² (168.1 m²)
* Empty weight: 10,920 lb (4,953 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 14,750 lb (6,690 kg)
* Powerplant: 2× General Electric T700 turboshaft, 1,680 shp (1,300 kW) each
* Rotor systems: 2 blades on main rotor, 2 blades on tail rotor

Performance

* Maximum speed: 190 knots (218 mph, 352 km/h)
* Range: 317 nmi (365 mi, 587 km)
* Service ceiling: 12,200 ft (3,720 m)
* Rate of climb: 1,620 ft/min (8.2 m/s)

Armament

* M197 3-barreled 20 mm "Gatling-style" cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 rounds ammo capacity)
* 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 rockets - Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers
* 5 in (127 mm) Zuni rockets - 8 rockets in two 4-round LAU-10D/A launchers
* TOW Missiles - Up to 8 missiles mounted in two-missile launchers on each hardpoint
* AGM-114 Hellfire Missiles - Up to 8 missiles mounted in two 4-round M272 missile launchers, one on each outboard hardpoint
* AIM-9 Sidewinder Anti-Aircraft Missiles - 1 mounted on each outboard hardpoint (total of 2)

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

eurocopter tiger
HISTORY:
First Flight (PT-1) 29 April 1991
(Tigre HAP) March 2003
(Tiger ARH) February 2004
Service Entry

(Tigre HAP) 2005 (?)
(Tiger ARH) 2007


CREW: two: pilot, gunner


ESTIMATED COST:

(Tiger UHT) $40 million [2002$]
(Tigre HAP) $37 million [2002$]
(Tigre HAD) $46 million [2002$]
(Tiger ARH) $36 million [2002$]


AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Rotor Blade Root unknown
Rotor Blade Tip

unknown


DIMENSIONS:
Length 51.79 ft (15.80 m) with rotors turning
(UHT) 46.17 ft (14.08 m) ignoring rotors
(HAP) 49.21 ft (15.00 m) ignoring rotors
Rotor Diameter 42.65 ft (13.00 m)
Wingspan 14.83 ft (4.52 m)
Height 12.5 ft (3.81 m) to top of rotor head
14.17 ft (4.32 m) to top of tail rotor
17.06 ft (5.20 m) to top of mast-mounted sight
Rotor Disk Area

1,428.4 ft2 (132.73 m2)


WEIGHTS:
Empty 7,275 lb (3,300 kg)
Typical Load 12,785 lb (5,800 kg)
Max Takeoff 13,230 lb (6,000 kg)
Fuel Capacity internal: 2,380 lb (1,080 kg)
external: 1,090 lb (495 kg)
Max Payload

(HAP) 3,970 lb (1,800 kg)
(UHT) 3,635 lb (1,650 kg)


PROPULSION:
Powerplant two MTU/ Turbomeca/ Rolls-Royce MTR 390 turboshafts
Thrust 2,570 shp (1,916 kW)


PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude : 200 mph (320 km/h) [clean]
175 mph (280 km/h) [armed]
at sea level: unknown
cruise speed: 145 mph (230 km/h)
Maximum Climb Rate (UHT) 2,105 ft (640 m) / min
(HAP) 2,265 ft (690 m) / min
Service Ceiling 13,125 ft (4,000 m)
Hover Ceiling
(out of ground effect) 11,480 ft (3,500 m)
Range typical: 430 nm (800 km)
ferry: 700 nm (1,300 km)
Endurance 3 hr 25 min
g-Limits unknown


ARMAMENT:
Gun (HAP/HAD/ARH) one GIAT AM-30781 30-mm cannon (150-450 rds)
Stations 2 stub-wings with 4 hardpoints
Air-to-Air Missile up to four Matra Mistral or Stinger
Air-to-Surface Missile up to eight Trigat, HOT-2, HOT-3, or TOW-2 anti-tank
Bomb none
Other up to two 68-mm or 70-mm rocket pods, 12.7-mm gun pod, 20-mm gun pod


KNOWN VARIANTS:
PT-1 Aerodynamic prototype
PT-2 HAP prototype
PT-3 UHU prototype
PT-4 Full HAP prototype with a complete avionics and weapons fit
PT-5 Full UHU prototype with a complete avionics and weapons fit
PT-6 Full HAC prototype with a complete avionics and weapons fit
EC 665 Eurocopter designation for the Tiger/Tigre helicopter family
PAH-2 Panzerabwehrhubschrauber 2, German designation for the Tiger, original configuration was to be a dedicated anti-tank model carrying up to eight HOT-2 or Trigat missiles but this was cancelled in favor of the multi-role UHT design
UHT or UHU Unterstutzungshubschrauber, German multi-role anti-tank and support model equipped with a mast-mounted sight and anti-tank missiles, other armaments include 70-mm rocket pods, Stinger self-defense air-to-air missiles, and an optional 12.7-mm gun pod; 212 originally planned but now only 80 to be built
HAP or HCP Helicoptere d'Appui et de Protection (or Helicopter for Close Protection), French escort and fire control model featuring a 30-mm gun turret and usually armed with 68-mm rocket pods or Mistral air-to-air missiles; 100 originally planned but now only 40 to be built
HAC Helicoptere Anti-Char, French anti-tank model similar to the German UHT; 115 originally planned but cancelled in favor of the HAD
HAD Helicoptere Appui Destruction, French multi-role attack helicopter that merges many of the features of the HAP and HAC into a single model, based on the HAP but adds the anti-tank capability of the HAC and also includes uprated engines as well as improved ballistic protection; 40 to be built for France and 24 for Spain (18 new build, 6 refitted from HAP)
ARH Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter model for Australia based on the HAP but with upgraded engines and a laser designator for its primary armament of Hellfire II anti-tank missiles; 22 to be built

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

V22 OSPREY
HISTORY:
First Flight 19 March 1989
Service Entry

June 2007


CREW: three: pilot, co-pilot, loadmaster


PASSENGERS: 24 troops


ESTIMATED COST:

$69.9 million [2006$]


AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Wing Root Bell A821201 (23%)
Wing Tip Bell A821201 (23%)
Rotor Blade Root XN28/XN18/XN12
Rotor Blade Tip

XN09


DIMENSIONS:
Length 57.33 ft (17.47 m)
Wingspan 50.92 ft (15.52 m) including nacelles
84.50 ft (25.77 m) with rotors turning
Height 21.75 ft (6.63 m) with nacelles vertical
Rotor Diameter 38.00 ft (11.58 m) for each 3-bladed rotor
Wing Area 382 ft2 (35.49 m2)
Rotor Disk Area 2,268 ft2 (210.72 m2) total
Canard Area

not applicable


WEIGHTS:
Empty 33,140 lb (15,060 kg)
Normal Takeoff 47,500 lb (21,545 kg) [vertical TO]
Max Takeoff 52,870 lb (24,030 kg) [vertical TO]
57,000 lb (25,910 kg) [short TO, 20 deg tilt]
60,500 lb (27,500 kg) [short TO ferry]
Fuel Capacity internal: 13,850 lb (6,295 kg)
external: unknown
Max Payload

20,000 lb (9,090 kg) internally
15,000 lb (6,820 kg) externally
600 lb (272 kg) capacity rescue winch


PROPULSION:
Powerplant two Rolls-Royce/Allison AE1107C turboshafts
Thrust 12,300 shp (9,172 kW)


PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude: 390 mph (630 km/h) [airplane mode]
at sea level: 115 mph (185 km/h) [helicopter mode]
Initial Climb Rate 2,320 ft (705 m) / min
Service Ceiling 25,000 ft (7,630 m)
Hover Ceiling
(out of ground effect) 7,000 ft (2,135 m) [HV-22]
5,000 ft (1,525 m) [CV-22]
Range typical: 505 nm (935 km)
ferry: 2,100 nm (3,890 km)
g-Limits unknown


ARMAMENT:
Gun provision for two .50 caliber cabin guns
a 7.62-mm remotely operated minigun providing 360° protection is in development
Stations two external hardpoints
Air-to-Air Missile none
Air-to-Surface Missile none
Bomb none
Other none


KNOWN VARIANTS:
MV-22 Baseline assault transport for the US Marines, also equipped for medical evacutaion (up to 12 litters), search-and-rescue, supply transport, and special operations; 408 to be built
HV-22 Search-and-rescue model for the US Navy, also equipped for special operations duties and fleet logistics; 48 originally planned but this model was cancelled as the Navy decided to purchase the standard MV-22 variant instead
CV-22 Special operations model for the US Air Force, able to covertly insert and extract up to 18 troops while flying 500 nm (925 km) at 500 ft (150 m) or lower altitude; 50 to be built
PRV-22 Combat search-and-rescue model proposed to the US Air Force as a replacement for the HH-60G Pavehawk; not developed

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

in my opinion, used and upgraded super cobra (AH1W) from USN will be best for PA. but they are sanction prone like other US equipment.

The second option is chinese WZ-10 gunship. it will be less costly and we can get them from our all weather friend.

dear owais,again the problem is usa.or els we would get apachi insted of supercobra.im dam sure dat they would never giv us such advance tecnologies.
i wonder why israeal is crazy for ka52/50(acc to some defence news).we should go for these they r not much costy and wz-10 is good choice too.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Who knows wat the future holds ??

that is the problem with us muslims thats we do not think for the future.and thats the only why west leading the world.

 

[muse]

WANT THE future - go for the Wz10. There is little point to adding 5 or 20 helicopters, what Pakistan need is a technology package and it's simply pointless talking about western this or that, it's a game of commissions and future losses.

Pakistan have to walk on their own road, it will always be a lonely road - and that is best for Pakistan.

HIT, PAC Kamra, now an institution for the study and manufacture of turbine engines.

 

[HAIDER]

Wz 10 carry Canadian engine, forget it. Canadian provide these engine for civil purpose and later China fitted in attack helicopter.Canadian stop the delivery.It will take time for Chinese to bring in full production. Russian Ka series is still under test and Russian army itself order only 13 or 15. No news about production line. Tiger is too expensive. Only one way Muse way. Make your own, its best time when everyone wants to help Pakistan during war against terror. Its time to bring more technology home.