New Modified Z-10ME Attack Helicopter

[帅的一匹]

That's why it was tailor made on the requirements, it will arrive for testing, sooner or later.

agreed

 

[Signalian]

Can reach altitude higher than AH-1Z?

 

[aziqbal]

Z10 was ok but for Pakistan requirements it just wasn't up for the job, handling and overall performance

If it was surely PA would have gone for it

Its Chinas first attempt at a dedicated attack helicopter as such isnt the best

The operating envelope for PA is wide as such the helo is going to have to be versatile

 

[Basel]

Still not good enough to justify Pakistan requirements & conditions. We have refused it once again despite of Chinese excitement......

What were reasons now??

 

[Dazzler]

Still not good enough to justify Pakistan requirements & conditions. We have refused it once again despite of Chinese excitement......

Refused without testing? It has not been tested yet.

 

[Zarvan]

Refused without testing? It has not been tested yet.

Sir what I have heard is main issue was engine. If engine is still the same so no use of testing it again

 

[Beast]

Here you go,

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...-ts1400-prototype-successfully-tested.562831/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...-power-source-for-other-muslim-states.583544/

No need to worry,dont let that troll convince you otherwise.

Nice presentation but its not reality. It is still very far away from operation. Trust me. When your TA-129 really start running with this on the export. Do let me know....

Z-10ME can carry out a small 2x2 all terrain vehicle for land assault mission for special forces. The magazine capacity has increase based on customer recommendation. Exhaust has modify to reduce IR signature. Armour has improved with add on plates. Z-10ME can carry small torpedo or mid range anti-ship missiles for naval ops.

 

[YeBeWarned]

its not a Z-10ME vs T-129 thread ..

 

[Zarvan]

Nice presentation but its not reality. It is still very far away from operation. Trust me. When your TA-129 really start running with this on the export. Do let me know....

Z-10ME can carry out a small 2x2 all terrain vehicle for land assault mission for special forces. The magazine capacity has increase based on customer recommendation. Exhaust has modify to reduce IR signature. Armour has improved with add on plates. Z-10ME can carry small torpedo or mid range anti-ship missiles for naval ops.

WZ-15 engine were supposed to come for WZ-10 when that engine would be ready

 

[LKJ86]

WZ-15 engine were supposed to come for WZ-10 when that engine would be ready

What is the WZ-15 engine?

 

[Beast]

WZ-15 engine were supposed to come for WZ-10 when that engine would be ready

Not sure of the new engine. But given this helo can carry a torpedo. I don't think it has engine issue.

 

[jhungary]

9 pages of this and I yet to see anyone discussion the use of these chopper.

Remember Attack Helicopter have multiple roles, depends on how you want to use it, you should make the chopper fit in the role you want, not try to fit a chopper to a specific role.

Basically in modern warfare, attack helicopter can be used in one of the following ways

-Support Gunship, using rocket and 20mm cannon to support troop on ground.
-ISTAR bird, use its onboard sensor and communication package to spy on target while hidden
-Command and Control (C2) bird - Provide instant command decision and coordination with ground force
-General Support duty - Supporting and Pacifying both hard and soft target in a given AO

The question is always not "Did Z-10 or Z-10ME" suitable for Pakistan, but the question is how and to some degree, where you want to deploy those bird. If you want to deploy them in a congested AO, you will need your bird have the capability to camouflage itself in the surrounding, because the more traffic in an AO, the more risk your bird will be shot down by MANPAD or SAM or Enemy CAP. If the need of these bird is for ISTAR, then you will need a good sensory suite, if this is for a support gunship, you will need a way to be able to directly communicate between the ground need and the chopper. And so on.

Z-10 and Viper is two different class of gunship, it may seems like the same to you, but Viper have a very advance sensory suite that probably only second or may even be already more advance than longbow, Viper are used in battlefield as a "What you see, what you kill" system, and they may not be the one that doing the killing. That is the reason why Viper is very good at COIN op. On the other hand, Z-10 is an infantry support weapon, where you use it to support infantry operation, which fitted in more tradition gunship role. If PA for whatever reason not getting Viper, Z-10 cannot be used to replace the role PA wanted for the Viper, you would need Bell 412 or Venom to do the job with enhance sensory package.

 

[Awan68]

9 pages of this and I yet to see anyone discussion the use of these chopper.

Remember Attack Helicopter have multiple roles, depends on how you want to use it, you should make the chopper fit in the role you want, not try to fit a chopper to a specific role.

Basically in modern warfare, attack helicopter can be used in one of the following ways

-Support Gunship, using rocket and 20mm cannon to support troop on ground.
-ISTAR bird, use its onboard sensor and communication package to spy on target while hidden
-Command and Control (C2) bird - Provide instant command decision and coordination with ground force
-General Support duty - Supporting and Pacifying both hard and soft target in a given AO

The question is always not "Did Z-10 or Z-10ME" suitable for Pakistan, but the question is how and to some degree, where you want to deploy those bird. If you want to deploy them in a congested AO, you will need your bird have the capability to camouflage itself in the surrounding, because the more traffic in an AO, the more risk your bird will be shot down by MANPAD or SAM or Enemy CAP. If the need of these bird is for ISTAR, then you will need a good sensory suite, if this is for a support gunship, you will need a way to be able to directly communicate between the ground need and the chopper. And so on.

Z-10 and Viper is two different class of gunship, it may seems like the same to you, but Viper have a very advance sensory suite that probably only second or may even be already more advance than longbow, Viper are used in battlefield as a "What you see, what you kill" system, and they may not be the one that doing the killing. That is the reason why Viper is very good at COIN op. On the other hand, Z-10 is an infantry support weapon, where you use it to support infantry operation, which fitted in more tradition gunship role. If PA for whatever reason not getting Viper, Z-10 cannot be used to replace the role PA wanted for the Viper, you would need Bell 412 or Venom to do the job with enhance sensory package.

What advantage do attack heli's offer over drones?

 

[jhungary]

What advantage do attack heli's offer over drones?

Depending on what kind of drone you are talking about.

Is it the full size combat drone like MQ-9 Reaper or smaller Recce drone like S-100?

In war, you want to see the big picture if possible, not only limited to what your own pairs of eyes can see. Which mean you need information.

Now, Drone can be used to collect information of course, but you need to know the guy who operate the drone may be 20 miles away from the line, or even longer (if you are talking about RQ-4 or MQ-9 type), which mean it take them time to build the big picture from all the information they gather. Maybe they need more squad input to complete the big picture, maybe they need more drone to fill in the big picture. But almost in most case, by the time the drone operator can tell you what's what, it would already been too late.

On the other hand, a chopper with actual person in it can tell you what you are going to encounter in your vicinity in real time, they know the situation first hand because they are above you, and going thru what you are going thru, so they will know what is more important and get a better immediate big picture for you to decide your next move. But of course, if you want the big picture for strategic concern, drone is always the better way to go.

Drone is like trying to learn what's going on by watching CCTV footage, while a Attack Heli will tell you what is going on in real time, yes, CCTV cover more coverage but it takes time to digest the information, where a chopper above will give you limited insight but what you get is a 360 degree of real time information.

 

[Awan68]

Depending on what kind of drone you are talking about.

Is it the full size combat drone like MQ-9 Reaper or smaller Recce drone like S-100?

In war, you want to see the big picture if possible, not only limited to what your own pairs of eyes can see. Which mean you need information.

Now, Drone can be used to collect information of course, but you need to know the guy who operate the drone may be 20 miles away from the line, or even longer (if you are talking about RQ-4 or MQ-9 type), which mean it take them time to build the big picture from all the information they gather. Maybe they need more squad input to complete the big picture, maybe they need more drone to fill in the big picture. But almost in most case, by the time the drone operator can tell you what's what, it would already been too late.

On the other hand, a chopper with actual person in it can tell you what you are going to encounter in your vicinity in real time, they know the situation first hand because they are above you, and going thru what you are going thru, so they will know what is more important and get a better immediate big picture for you to decide your next move. But of course, if you want the big picture for strategic concern, drone is always the better way to go.

Drone is like trying to learn what's going on by watching CCTV footage, while a Attack Heli will tell you what is going on in real time, yes, CCTV cover more coverage but it takes time to digest the information, where a chopper above will give you limited insight but what you get is a 360 degree of real time information.

Ofcourse bieng there will always be more reaction oriented but factors such as fear, surprise or emotions could be totally eliminated if done from a control room. I was mainly refering to the use of full blown strike drones like mq 9's in the anti tank arena. Wouldnt u agree that using drones in this role would be much much cheaper and they can be deployed in much larger numbers too. Ofcourse CAS would be the realm of gunships for the foreseeable future.