New Modified Z-10ME Attack Helicopter

[HariPrasad]

But block 70 is not available for us ... we can compare it with block 52 only ... so what good it is for us ?

Thunder block 3's avionics are much advanced then block 52 ...

Furthermore the range of equipments and weapons and flexibility we have with thunder f16 do not provide that flexibility ...

In actual comparision with t129 ... t129 despite being much advance and lethal currently the pace at which chinese are upgrading their equipments is phenomenal and it cannot be matched by anyone except for US .

South Africa and Israel are key example ... they are also technology advanced but they dont have financial muscles like china therefore their weapon system upgradation are limited ... israel focus is on defensive equipments similar will be the case with turkey ... however china having huge budget is working on a lot of fields and providing new techs at much faster pace ...

Good analysis though I disagree with some points.

What does the Block 70 have that the J-10C does not? Granted, much of the technical parameters of both platforms are unknown, but since you exude so much confidence in your statement you should be able to provide an answer.



The purported engine for the Z-10ME, rated at 1200 kW output, already matches or exceeds that of the T129 (1100 kW output) in terms of power.

Then, there are the WZ-10 and WZ-16 engines in the pipeline, at 1600 and 1300 kW, respectively.

We have same power engine in less than half weight chopper. Turkey chopper weights less than half. Do not talk about power but talk about power to weight ratio.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Koi harj nahi hai sir but can you imagine a scenario when it will face a chopper having more than double power to weight ratio, what will happen to it.

choppers dont face off choppers but ground targets
if a chopper is left to fend for itself then the airforce and air defence should be spanked

 

[HariPrasad]

choppers dont face off choppers but ground targets
if a chopper is left to fend for itself then the airforce and air defence should be spanked

Irfan Sahib,
I had said that not good for high altitude but people started trolling and took it too far from where it was started. It can definitely work on battlefield but limit T/W ratio limits it utility. It can't be a all in chopper like the Turkey chopper which Pakistan is buying or like Indian LCH which can operate from Himalaya to Rajasthan desert.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Irfan Sahib,
I had said that not good for high altitude but people started trolling and took it too far from where it was started. It can definitely work on battlefield but limit T/W ratio limits it utility. It can't be a all in chopper like the Turkey chopper which Pakistan is buying or like Indian LCH which can operate from Himalaya to Rajasthan desert.

we only know what is public. indeed t/w has its impact.
its role will be limited and maybe it will be deployed accordingly.

do note that Chinese got a good feedback testing on real battle field settings in the tribal areas and that area offers all climates maybe not the as extreme as the himalayas but still and you see that the newer version has some modifications .. and it maybe tested again there

 

[HariPrasad]

we only know what is public. indeed t/w has its impact.
its role will be limited and maybe it will be deployed accordingly.

do note that Chinese got a good feedback testing on real battle field settings in the tribal areas and that area offers all climates maybe not the as extreme as the himalayas but still and you see that the newer version has some modifications .. and it maybe tested again there

Simulation has shown that Z10 can not carry 500+ kg weight above 10 k feet. This is a serious limitation. May be that is why Pakistan army choose Turkey chopper over Chinese.

 

[jupiter2007]

Here you go,

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...-ts1400-prototype-successfully-tested.562831/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...-power-source-for-other-muslim-states.583544/

No need to worry,dont let that troll convince you otherwise.

Thank you so much. I knew Turkey won’t fully depend on USA. Yeah, now I remember.. I read about it sometime back.

 

[The Accountant]

Simulation has shown that Z10 can not carry 500+ kg weight above 10 k feet. This is a serious limitation. May be that is why Pakistan army choose Turkey chopper over Chinese.

From where did you get this info ? Z10 is under powered and its more powerful engine is under development however its take off weight is 1500 kg and service celling is 6400 meters ... its beter than LCH ...

Z10 ki weakness was its under powered engine due to which it was unstable at heights and its less impressive avionics ...

 

[LeGenD]

ADWC guys say something else about ZDK performance, especially the first 2 ones just like one of YLC 2 at hill top.

On paper zdk is stronger tho.

True.

ZDK-03 have its appeal due to its 360 degree radar coverage, and is optimized for maritime surveillance in particular, but to assert that it completely outclass Saab-2000 in every aspect is misleading and disingenuous. PAF would have retired its Saab-2000 fleet otherwise.

Saab-2000 does not rank high among Western options in terms of performance and coverage of threats but is good enough for our needs for now. PAF wanted Boeing E-3A Sentry originally but could not acquire it due to Pressler amendment. Now, we do not have funds for top-of-the-line Western hardware anyways.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Simulation has shown that Z10 can not carry 500+ kg weight above 10 k feet. This is a serious limitation. May be that is why Pakistan army choose Turkey chopper over Chinese.

maybe. but do take public knowledge about secretive military stuff with generous quantity of salt.

if might even have more limitations. or some advantages that are kept out of public domain.
you are right the Turkish Agosta helicopter is a solid and proven platform and those wonderful (if totally irrelevant to real war) acrobatics just show off the agility and ability of that platform.

 

[LeGenD]

Thunder block 3's avionics are much advanced then block 52 ...

You might be confusing our Block 52+ with older variants. I will not say more.

 

[The Accountant]

You might be confusing our Block 52+ with older variants. I will not say more.

Not really ... AESA will always be better than pulse dopler ...

I feel you are confusing block 3 with older blocks

 

[LeGenD]

Not really ... AESA will always be better than pulse dopler ...

I feel you are confusing block 3 with older blocks

Avionics constitute the entire sensor system - all electronic components.

AESA is a great design philosophy in theory but radar systems vary significantly in performance (and mission-applicability) in reality.

The impression that I have from relevant contacts is that F-16 Block 52+ are the most capable aircraft in the inventory of PAF so far. These will be pitted against SU-30 MKI in potential engagements, God forbid.

We are definitely trying to retrofit JF-17 Thunder Block III with new stuff but I would reserve my judgement until the end-product establish itself.

 

[Akasa]

We have same power engine in less than half weight chopper. Turkey chopper weights less than half. Do not talk about power but talk about power to weight ratio.

Then the issue is with the weight/configuration of the helicopter and not with the powerplant. A lighter helicopter implies that it has compromised certain areas to compensate for its weight.

 

[Basel]

So it seems Pakistan is testing Chinese equipment and giving feedback based on their ability to inspect and try out Western equipment which China cannot do so. This is great because it gives China a great advantage...

This way is being used since very long time, even F-6 (Mig-19) were modified for western weapons in 60s.

4 , according to my knowledge only the sqn in south is in good shape.
People from ADWC mock the first example saying it was prototype in China.
U will see tps 43G or Tps77 on sensitive locations in pakistan

TPS-43G is old, is is good enough in current high tech enemy scenario as TPS-77 will be pushed to limits.

 

[Tps43]

True.

ZDK-03 have its appeal due to its 360 degree radar coverage, and is optimized for maritime surveillance in particular, but to assert that it completely outclass Saab-2000 in every aspect is misleading and disingenuous. PAF would have retired its Saab-2000 fleet otherwise.

Saab-2000 does not rank high among Western options in terms of performance and coverage of threats but is good enough for our needs for now. PAF wanted Boeing E-3A Sentry originally but could not acquire it due to Pressler amendment. Now, we do not have funds for top-of-the-line Western hardware anyways.

Erieye is oftenly under rated but they are quite capable machines and attack on kamra justifies this fact.

TPS-43G is old, is is good enough in current high tech enemy scenario as TPS-77 will be pushed to limits.

More then u think.
We did some upgrades in 2003-6 time span , completely changed its battlestations new GMCC's setup in all sqns.