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New Indian stealth warship halted by US bar on GE (engines)

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New Indian stealth warship halted by US bar on GE

Ajai Shukla / On Board The Ins Shivalik, Mumbai March 06, 2009, 0:08 IST

If the United States ranks near the bottom amongst India’s defence suppliers, Washington’s penchant for imposing sanctions and restrictions has much to do with it. Now, the US appears to have shot itself in the foot again. The Indian Navy chose to power its indigenously designed, cutting-edge stealth warship, the INS Shivalik, with gas turbines from American company General Electric (GE). But even as the Shivalik readies for sea trials, the US State Department has ordered GE to stop all work on the turbines it has supplied.

Vice Admiral HS Malhi (Retired), chairman and managing director of Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), which built the Shivalik, has confirmed to Business Standard that GE has received instructions to stop operationalising (making ready for operations) the two new LM 2500 gas turbines that it supplied for the Shivalik. GE has told MDL that there could be up to three months delay, while the new US administration reviews its military relations with several countries. India is not alone in facing this ban; GE has been told to stop work even with close US allies like the UK and Australia.

MDL has clearly been taken by surprise. Says Admiral Malhi, “It is quite surprising that such a letter has been received from GE. They said the (US) State Department could take up to 3-4 months to re-look at relations with these countries. We don’t have that kind of time; we have to deliver the ship to the navy.”

The Shivalik stealth frigate is powered by four engines, in what is termed a CODOG (COmbined Diesel Or Gas) arrangement. Normal operations are powered by two Pielstick diesel engines, supplied by France. The gas turbines kick in for short bursts during combat, when extra power is needed. They are less fuel-efficient than diesel engines, but provide high performance. This is the first time that US turbines have been installed in an Indian-built frigate.

MDL is now exploring whether it can use another GE subsidiary to operationalise the Shivalik’s turbines, without invalidating GE’s warranty. According to Admiral Malhi, “If GE allows us to use one of its licensees, the delay can be cut down to a month. GE is not averse to that, as long as no American person is involved in the work.”

GE has not responded to an email, asking for details of this delay. The US State Department has also ignored a request for information. A spokesperson of the US Embassy in New Delhi has sidestepped the question, replying by email that, “The State Department has not instructed GE in the conduct of this direct commercial sale. Aspects of this sale were subject to export licensing, which is conducted through the State Department.”

When asked to comment specifically on blanket orders from the State Department to GE regarding commercial defence dealings with India, the US Embassy did not respond.

Recent Indian frigates were powered by Russian turbines. But GE’s LM 2500 gas turbines were chosen for three Project 17 frigates (of which INS Shivalik is the first) because of their better reliability. More than one thousand LM 2500 turbines power more than 400 warships in 30 navies across the world. In addition, the LM 2500 is used for power generation in luxury cruise liners like the QE II.

US defence industry sources indicate that GE is upset by the State Department’s directives, which clearly damage GE’s commercial interests. The ban, suggest sources, was imposed by an “over-enthusiastic State Department bureaucrat”, keen to display that the Obama administration was on the ball from the beginning. But in India, the ban is already generating talk of an unwise choice in going for a US engine.
New Indian stealth warship halted by US bar on GE (engines)
 
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I think India should keep Russia and Israel it's main arms supplier as US can cause a lot of problems..comments?
 
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India Still keeps Russia and Israel as main arms supplier, We cannot make any difference if we wish to do so at least for next decade :) .Even for MRCA deal, I think France /Russia has chance then USA does.
 
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^ What if India chooses FA/18 for MRCA then Us will be the biggest arms supplier of India.
 
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Well there was one Indian Member who was stating that Time has come for India to Ditch Russia as We have got new friends like USA and Israel with better Tech.

USA doesn't have Permanent Friends only Permanent Interests. Israel is the only True Buddy of USA not even UK ranks there.
 
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India is not alone in facing this ban; GE has been told to stop work even with close US allies like the UK and Australia.

Its NOT India Focussed but it also applies to the US Allies , whom its going to supply the F-35.

As Far as India in concerned , Yes , No One can Beat Russia and Israel .
Israel in particular has delivered Weapons with Quality , Timing and Price .
Russia is also unique.. It will be a dream to even think if US can let u peek inside a Akula Comparable Sub , in next 1-2 decades leave aside the talk of selling/leasing it.

US is Unreliable and Until its policies change, Nothing is going to change.
 
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Well we should thank the Americans for reminding us the FACT that we were forgetting. Hope the IAF guys are reading this.
 
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Quality wise, the American product by far will give the biggest bang for the buck! Israelis and Russians are no where close. Israelis have certain niche products which can be easily matched by the American hardware but for major capabilities, the Israelis neither have the industrial base, nor the capability.

As the Indian defence planners start getting introduced to the US hardware, it will become very difficult for them to stay away. You will have to make do with the American nuances as the capabilities offered are much better than anywhere else. This becomes all the more important for a large force like the Indian armed forces. You only have so much money and to modernize, you want both quality and quantity. Unlike the Europeans, Americans do not over charge, and in terms of quality, theirs is the best product out there in most cases.
 
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What blain says is correct. These ships require turbines of 20MW class whereas kaveri has been tested till 12 MW only till the time this tech matures we need to look towards them for getting the engines.
 
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Quality wise, the American product by far will give the biggest bang for the buck! Israelis and Russians are no where close. Israelis have certain niche products which can be easily matched by the American hardware but for major capabilities, the Israelis neither have the industrial base, nor the capability.

As the Indian defence planners start getting introduced to the US hardware, it will become very difficult for them to stay away. You will have to make do with the American nuances as the capabilities offered are much better than anywhere else. This becomes all the more important for a large force like the Indian armed forces. You only have so much money and to modernize, you want both quality and quantity. Unlike the Europeans, Americans do not over charge, and in terms of quality, theirs is the best product out there in most cases.



Do you really think American products have better quality than that of Russians? I have heard about Germans,Israelis and Russian been the best scientists in the world, Its a new information for me.
 
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Do you really think American products have better quality than that of Russians? I have heard about Germans,Israelis and Russian been the best scientists in the world, Its a new information for me.
Yes, I would agree with blain2 in saying that American products are generally more superior to their Russian counterparts. Just that one factor however does not necessarily affect the utility or the overall outcome of a conflict where the hardware in question is implemented.
 
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US allows GE to work on Indian warship

Ajai Shukla / New Delhi March 24, 2009, 0:21 IST



India’s new stealth warship, the INS Shivalik, is back on track. On March 12, 2009, the US government gave General Electric (GE) the green signal for resuming work on the two LM 2500 gas turbines that power the Shivalik. On March 6, 2009, Business Standard had reported that the stealth frigate was being delayed by “stop all work” instructions to GE from the US State Department.

Vice-Admiral HS Malhi, the chairman and managing director of Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL), which is building the INS Shivalik, has confirmed to Business Standard: “The issue has been resolved. GE has communicated to us that they have been given permission to go ahead. Earlier, GE had indicted that the permission could take 3-4 months in coming; but now (the US State Department) has cleared it.

The US State Department’s complex defence export procedures appear to be behind this delay. US industry sources explain that the LM 2500 gas turbines are dual-use power plants — they have commercial as well as military uses. For that reason, they are not listed on the US Munitions List and do not require an export licence from the State Department’s Directorate of Defence Trade Controls (DDTC). However, for fitting these dual-use turbines on a warship, that is, for providing a “military service”, a Technical Assistance Agreement (TAA) is needed from State Department. This was only received on March 12, after which GE resumed work on the Shivalik.

Nikhil Khanna of the US-India Business Council (USIBC) confirms: “GE needed to apply for a TAA from the Political-Military Bureau at the State Dept, which they did…. Simple procedures needed to be completed according to US technology release policies and we’re confident and proud that GE’s LM2500 engines will power India’s cutting-edge stealth warships.”

GE has confirmed to defence industry publication, Jane’s: “GE continues to provide the Indian Navy with LM2500 gas turbines for its ship programs… with no export licence required. This week GE obtained a licence from the US Department of State, to authorise the delivery of all shipboard services being requested.”

Partly as a result of this delay, MDL is racing to try and complete work on the Shivalik before the monsoons make sea trials difficult. Vice-Admiral Malhi says: “What time was lost cannot be regained now. We wanted the gas turbines in mid-January; we are now looking at end-March. So, we have lost about two months. I hope GE is able to crash it (work on an accelerated basis) and reduce the time that has been lost.”

The US industry is bitter about “undue attention” on the Shivalik delay. Says an industry source: “This is when we should be celebrating recent successes, such as the Lockheed C-130J sale, Boeing VVIP jets and, recently, the largest-ever deal between the US and India, that of the $2.2 billion Boeing P-8i (maritime reconnaissance aircraft) sale to the Indian Navy, (which will be) the first international customer for the P-8i, a huge step forward in the growing strategic relationship between our countries.”


US allows GE to work on Indian warship .

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zUe7sq7m3...lA/DcZra2ovjko/s1600-h/Shivalik+long+shot.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zUe7sq7m3h0/SbPG5PGOgGI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/YjVv2Jqz1W8/s1600-h/Shivalik+mast.JPG
 
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One Important Point to Note here is that this Decision has been Made Not only Against India but also it has halted some similart Defence Eqip supply to Australia/Canada.

So its more of "check" and "recheck" before they suppy.

Ofcourse it Exposes The Real face of Unreliable US and India should be alarmed.

A Big NO to F18.
 
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