Netherlands cancel landing permit for turkish foreign minister

[A.P. Richelieu]

My last paragraph reveals how easy piece of meat your nation is. Erdogan tricked you, by denying his ministers entry you lost more than you gained. With this, he will gain even more "yes" votes, because he portrayed Europe's/NL's hypocrisy.


That's why they with their own will slaughtered 300 bosnians as well?

"On 6 September 2013, the Supreme Court dismissed a Government appeal,[280] a judgment that the Government accepted.[281] On 16 July 2014, a Dutch court held the Netherlands liable for the killings of more than 300 Bosniaks at Srebrenica, although the same court ruled that the Netherlands was not liable for the other deaths in Srebrenica."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre


I don't agree that he allied with Bahceli for only this reason. Of course he needs every vote. I didn't say he secured 60% votes or so. I just state that this man is more powerful than ever.

Because this penguin thinks Erdogan is weak and weakened. And this is the sign. But not really.

You have better get some English lessons.
That means that the court belives that it is reasonable to think that the Dutch soldiers could have stopped those Bosnians from getting killed by the Serbs.
The court does not believe it is reasonable to expect them to stop the killing of the other 7,500 Bosnians killed.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Wilders heeft nooit plannen,hij is alleen maar tegen alles,heb je zijn partij programma wel eens gezien?
Anti Islam,anti immigratie,anti Turkije bij de EU,anti Asielzoekers,anti Koran,anti EU,anti dit en anti dat maar concrete alternatieven kan hij niet bieden,daarom zien we dit resultaat nu.
De mensen zijn verdeeld.
Zoals je ziet is men gedwongen om een coalitie te vormen waardoor men compromissen moet sluiten waardoor de democratie tot zijn recht komt.
Er moet naar iedereen worden geluisterd en niet zoals in Turkije waar binnekort een man kan beslissen over 80 miljoen mensen.
Mogen we straks nog naar de wc denk je,zonder hem te vragen?
Btw,Wilders cant do sh!t.

Do you have the last results?
or a website with all parties represented and their number of seats updated in live?
thx

 

[T-123456]

Do you have the last results?
or a website with all parties represented and their number of seats updated in live?
thx

Not final yet.

VVD 17,6 %
PVV 10,1 %
CDA 10,0 %
D66 14,3 %
GL 13,1 %
SP 8,6 %
PDVA 7,0 %(down from 30%)

11 % of the votes counted.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Not final yet.

VVD 17,6 %
PVV 10,1 %
CDA 10,0 %
D66 14,3 %
GL 13,1 %
SP 8,6 %
PDVA 7,0 %(down from 30%)

Thx to update new results, when out.
Best regards

 

[T-123456]

Thx to update new results, when out.
Best regards

Only 11% of the votes counted.

 

[T-123456]

VVD 21,3 %
PVV 13,1 %
CDA 12,4 %
D66 12,1 %
GL 9,0 %
SP 9,1 %
PVDA 5,7 %

95,3 % of the votes counted.

 

[Selim I]

You have better get some English lessons.
That means that the court belives that it is reasonable to think that the Dutch soldiers could have stopped those Bosnians from getting killed by the Serbs.
The court does not believe it is reasonable to expect them to stop the killing of the other 7,500 Bosnians killed.

I'm pretty sure my English proficiency is far beyond your ability in anything, so don't worry about that little padavan. And no, it doesn't mean the court means that they could have stopped the killings. It says they were responsible of the killings. Liable = responsible.

Either ways, even if what you said is correct - it is the exactly the same. If we go by your statement, it is like opening a lion cage and throwing boys and men inside waiting to see what happens. It is still culpa.

penguin same goes to you.

 

[schoolboy]

The funny thing is that all these countries taking moral high ground never stop ranting if their own funded "NGOs" in other countries are banned for blatant political interference in the internal affairs of that country.

Then it is "human rights violations" and what not.

I am fine with the policy of Netherlands, no issues.

My problem is only the hypocrisy they show when any of the Western country itself is on the receiving end.

There's a vast difference between a funded NGO pushing its objectives to the extent allowed and a foreign politician (and sitting minister) undertaking rabble rousing. Comparing the two is like comparing an apple with a ... thermometer.

Western countries have hypocrisies but this is not one of them. A better comparison would be to ask if sitting Dutch ministers campaign in foreign countries - I am not aware of such.

 

[schoolboy]

what a load of shyt, schoolboy.

Don't you NRI run wild political campaigns for extremist Modi in the US and elsewhere? Doesn't fanatic Modi addresses large gatherings of Indians in the Middle East and else where?

Of all, you should be the least one to give lectures about political campaigns by foreigners.

Just as a side note: These NGOs - most of the time do not follow the law of the host country, and have a blatant interference in political matters of the host country. And their respective govt threaten the host country with sanctions, if it tries to stop the "illegal activities" of the NGO. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of such examples.

Get your facts right and then come and talk sense.

Why so angry?

The NRIs you mention are US citizens and have the right to do whatever they please in the US. The events they organise at which Modi speaks are private events with ticketed entry, not public gatherings. Legally that is very significant - Modi certainly would not be granted permission in the US to hold a public town-hall meeting to discuss a contentious political issue. Comparing that with a Turkish Minister who called for a public gathering outside his country's consulate in support of what was strictly a domestic political issue is quite foolish.

As for your claim that NGOs that "do not follow the law of host country, etc etc." perhaps that is the case in Pakistan. In India at least Western-funded NGOs ask a lot of uncomfortable questions (often very relevant ones that are taboo) and they also support causes that are politically unpopular and in turn they are disliked by mainstream politicians. But to claim they do not follow laws is patently erroneous.

Erdogan and his ministers have breached every conceivable courtesy by bickering about domestic disputes when they visit foreign countries. Every visit of Erdogan or Çavuşoğlu in the last year has been to drum up support against Gulen and Gulen's organisation. He's done this in Pakistan, Morocco and Senegal recently - no doubt these countries have their economic and political compulsions for tolerating such bad behaviour - Netherlands and Germany are not beholden to Turkey and have rightly called a spade a spade. Erdogan should introspect on this instead of consistently demonstrating boorish behaviour that would be guaranteed to earn a place at a nuthouse.

You do not seem to like Modi - and that's okay by me - but this thread is not the place for an anti-Modi rant.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

How ridiculous can you get in your replies! Are you suggesting Dutch military took part in any killing? You're referening to a pic with Karremans and suggest that was a celebration and consent.

As I posted earlier:

"At midday on 11 July, NATO planes arrived from Italy and struck a Bosnian Serb tank,before being forced to cease operations after General Mladić threatened to "destroy" both the Dutch soldiers and the Bosniak population of Srebrenica unless airstrikes were called off. That afternoon, Mladić, accompanied by General Živanović (then Commander of the Drina Corps), General Krstić (then Deputy Commander and Chief of Staff of the Drina Corps) and other Bosnian Serb officers, took a triumphant walk through the deserted streets of the town of Srebrenica. The moment was captured on film by Serbian journalist Zoran Petrović. Mladić posed for television cameras, before declaring that Srebrenica had been "returned forever to the Serbs." Later, Thom Karremans, the commander of the Dutch troops in the town, drank a toast with Mladić which was filmed for Serb television. Off-camera, however, Mladić warned Karremans that the UN compound in Potočari, where thousands of Bosniak refugees had gathered, would be shelled by the VRS if NATO planes reappeared.

Clearly, you are twisting historical fact: there never was a celebration. There was a meeting, there were threats to strike both civilians and Dutchbat by the commander of an armed force outnumbering the surrounded DutchBat III numerically 3 or 4 to 1, with heavy arms that Dutchbat lacked, while some 130 Dutch UN personnel taken hostage were chained to potential air strike targets.

The Dutch report clearly admits like you.

Dossier Srebrenica: “The Netherlands could use this to show its worth and Dutch prestige would be enhanced in the world”.

On July 11, Mladic entered the town declaring he was giving Srebrenica “as a gift to the Serbian people for all the many humiliations they had suffered down the centuries at the hands of the Turks”. (people were)“slaughtered like beasts”.

Dutch troops had offered no resistance and instead supervised the exodus of refugees, which is “tantamount to collaborating with ethnic cleansing”.

Pictures were published in the press of drunken Dutchbat soldiers and of Karremans himself raising a toast to Mladic.

---------------------0-----------------0------------------

Individual politicians and official representatives of the State are two entirely different entities. Therein lies the problem.

When will you start to back up your claim through law and int. treaty?

 

[coffee_cup]

Why so angry?

The NRIs you mention are US citizens and have the right to do whatever they please in the US. The events they organise at which Modi speaks are private events with ticketed entry, not public gatherings. Legally that is very significant - Modi certainly would not be granted permission in the US to hold a public town-hall meeting to discuss a contentious political issue. Comparing that with a Turkish Minister who called for a public gathering outside his country's consulate in support of what was strictly a domestic political issue is quite foolish.

As for your claim that NGOs that "do not follow the law of host country, etc etc." perhaps that is the case in Pakistan. In India at least Western-funded NGOs ask a lot of uncomfortable questions (often very relevant ones that are taboo) and they also support causes that are politically unpopular and in turn they are disliked by mainstream politicians. But to claim they do not follow laws is patently erroneous.

Erdogan and his ministers have breached every conceivable courtesy by bickering about domestic disputes when they visit foreign countries. Every visit of Erdogan or Çavuşoğlu in the last year has been to drum up support against Gulen and Gulen's organisation. He's done this in Pakistan, Morocco and Senegal recently - no doubt these countries have their economic and political compulsions for tolerating such bad behaviour - Netherlands and Germany are not beholden to Turkey and have rightly called a spade a spade. Erdogan should introspect on this instead of consistently demonstrating boorish behaviour that would be guaranteed to earn a place at a nuthouse.

You do not seem to like Modi - and that's okay by me - but this thread is not the place for an anti-Modi rant.

Interesting. Indian PM addressing a political rally in foreign countries is fine and "must be appreciated".

But another PM doing something similar in another country becomes an itch for Indians, even though they have absolutely nothing to do with it (since this is between other countries where India is completely irrelevant).

Typical Indian bullshyte...

 

[Penguin]

The Dutch report clearly admits like you.

Dossier Srebrenica: “The Netherlands could use this to show its worth and Dutch prestige would be enhanced in the world”.

On July 11, Mladic entered the town declaring he was giving Srebrenica “as a gift to the Serbian people for all the many humiliations they had suffered down the centuries at the hands of the Turks”. (people were)“slaughtered like beasts”.

Dutch troops had offered no resistance and instead supervised the exodus of refugees, which is “tantamount to collaborating with ethnic cleansing”.

Pictures were published in the press of drunken Dutchbat soldiers and of Karremans himself raising a toast to Mladic.

---------------------0-----------------0------------------



When will you start to back up your claim through law and int. treaty?

Just so you know, you're beating a dead horse. And falsifying the conclusions of the report, by taking portions out of context and attaching you own interpretation of their meaning to them. No matter how many times you repeat what I myself already posted, that doesn't make your interpretation factual or correct. It also does not make Erdogan's statement on this correct or appropriate (after all, what does it have to do with anything that happened in Rotterdam recently? Exactly, nothing. Which bring us back to the main point: Erdogan self-created a problem and then complains about the treatment he himself provoked, in order to distract from issues at home and stir up nationalistic sentiments in the run up to your referendum)

The report clearly indicates the mission (Dutchbat) was ill-conceived and not properly equipped for the jobs. Moreover, it was denied air support (i.e. no compensation for lack of heavy weapons). Given their number and weaponry, in relation to the number and weaponry of the VRS, there was no real point and no real possibility to put up a fight (without incurring shelling on the concentration of civilians at Potocari). The responsible government resigned over this and the military leadership was removed over this. Court sentences where there was something to sentence (and liability is not the same as guilt), with associated monetary compensation and formal apologies etc. (Which is more than can be said than e.g. Armenians ever received.)

Meanwhile, Pakistani troops 50km up the road in the direction of Tuzla could not come to the aid of the cut-off Dutchbat. Where were Turkish troops in this (given that Turkey contributed to UNPROFOR)?

Good luck further beating a dead horse.

Ik wil hierop zeggen dat ik u niet erg overtuigend vind.

In Nederland zijn veel voorbeelden te vinden van incorrecte conclusies die hebben geresulteerd in de verkeerde besluiten. Not voting for Wilders is one of these grave mistakes. You should have voted for him. Nothing will change now. Meestal denken politici dat burgers niet klaar zijn voor hun oplossingen. Nederlandse politici en partijen moeten een plan kunnen presenteren dat mensen geloven. Only Wilders is capable of doing so.

So, that's why last year August he came with an incredibly (ridiculously?) short 1 page party program for the elections, of which the rest of the PVV knew nothing (hadn't been informed/consulted). Bottom line: Wilders doesn 't have a plan. Polically, he gains most by not (ever) accepting any government responsibility.

 

[Penguin]

Do you have the last results?
or a website with all parties represented and their number of seats updated in live?
thx

In the end, what matter is the coalition that is formed, not so much the number of seat of a party.

The PvdA took a beating, yes, but the people that left went to D66, CDA and Groenlinks, NOT to PVV. Like last time (when everybody concentrated on VVD and PvDA in order to not have PVV be the largest party) PVV is not the largest party. In addition, several smaller parries doubled in seats (50+, PvdD) and several new parties are now part of the parliament e.g. Denk. In reality, PVV failed to realize the kind of growth needed to actually become a player (and it already screwed the VVD over once in the past, so VVD will not let that happen, wil not take that risk again).

He eats Kats.............................raw.

Probably sniffs his own arm-pit (A fish called Wanda)

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Just so you know, you're beating a dead horse. And falsifying the conclusions of the report, by taking portions out of context and attaching you own interpretation of their meaning to them. No matter how many times you repeat what I myself already posted, that doesn't make your interpretation factual or correct. It also does not make Erdogan's statement on this correct or appropriate (after all, what does it have to do with anything that happened in Rotterdam recently? Exactly, nothing. Which bring us back to the main point: Erdogan self-created a problem and then complains about the treatment he himself provoked, in order to distract from issues at home and stir up nationalistic sentiments in the run up to your referendum)

The report clearly indicates the mission (Dutchbat) was ill-conceived and not properly equipped for the jobs. Moreover, it was denied air support (i.e. no compensation for lack of heavy weapons). Given their number and weaponry, in relation to the number and weaponry of the VRS, there was no real point and no real possibility to put up a fight (without incurring shelling on the concentration of civilians at Potocari). The responsible government resigned over this and the military leadership was removed over this. Court sentences where there was something to sentence (and liability is not the same as guilt), with associated monetary compensation and formal apologies etc. (Which is more than can be said than e.g. Armenians ever received.)

Meanwhile, Pakistani troops 50km up the road in the direction of Tuzla could not come to the aid of the cut-off Dutchbat. Where were Turkish troops in this (given that Turkey contributed to UNPROFOR)?

Good luck further beating a dead horse.

Dossier Srebrenica report is clear enough in the conclusion(“tantamount to collaborating with ethnic cleansing”.), but you are free to make up excuses and deny the conclusion(“tantamount to collaborating with ethnic cleansing”.).

The same stance of the Dutch people, as in Srebrenica (“The Netherlands could use this to show its worth and Dutch prestige would be enhanced in the world”.), are now seen in the current situation, in which two political parties try to gain ''prestige'' in the eyes of the Dutch people in the elecion via Muslims and Turks. Wilder speeches and the stance of the Dutch state today confirms that the history repeats itself.

However, you suddenly stop making up excuses for your own stance when i challenge your claim with law and int. treaty.

A simple question.

How can the Dutch state ignore law and int. treaty in this very scandal you avoid talking about?

 

[Penguin]

Dossier Srebrenica report is clear enough in the conclusion(“tantamount to collaborating with ethnic cleansing”.), but you are free to make up excuses and deny the conclusion(“tantamount to collaborating with ethnic cleansing”.).

The same stance of the Dutch people, as in Srebrenica (“The Netherlands could use this to show its worth and Dutch prestige would be enhanced in the world”.), are now seen in the current situation, in which two political parties try to gain ''prestige'' in the eyes of the Dutch people in the elecion via Muslims and Turks. Wilder speeches and the stance of the Dutch state today confirms that the history repeats itself.

However much you repeat this, you repeat what I already posted my self and are beating a dead horse, irrelevant in any way to the recent events in Rotterdam.

However, you suddenly stop making up excuses for your own stance when i challenge your claim with law and int. treaty.

I've not made up any excuses. I'm correcty your obviously flawed twisting of report text.

A simple question.

How can the Dutch state ignore law and int. treaty in this very scandal you avoid talking about?

As evident from your own post above, you've not challenged 'my claim' (that there is a difference between public functionaries and politicians, and that theirein lies the difference. Because Turkish law itself prohibits public funtionaries from using e.g. an embassy for political campaiging). You mere asked a question. TO which I already have given you an answer a long long time ago.

The Dutch government informed Turkish officialdom that they would not be allowed in at this particular point in time because their actions would be detrimental to public order and damaging/divisve to our electoral proces. It was indicated they would be welcome after the elections. If your officialdom fails to heed that, and thus challenge our sovereignty (deliberately), there will be a response. If there is a treaty breach, then Turkey should take steps with the appropriate institutions to complain in agreed upon ways. Rather than yelling insults like a fishwife on the market. I have yet to see you quoting any legal text that shows that there is no difference between a politician and a public functionary.


And like with the Srebrenica report, you attempt to take my words out of the context in which they were uttered and twist them. As indicated, I'm not playing along.

I've not said/claimed anything about international law. You have. Therefor the burden of proof (that NL acted in breach of international law) is on you. A burden whith you have sought to dodge thusfar