Need To Reexamine Roots Of Violence In Muslim Culture

[Bratva]

I dunno - Maybe the same reason why Liaquat Ali Khan was assassinated or Kennedy was or Michael Collins was - They were too good for their detractors to side-line through any fair manner !

And hencmy gullible follow, you need to revisit Islamic history.

Long story short, Band of muslim rebels accused Hazrat Usman be unjust ruler and not following Quran and sunnah. Hazrat Usman rejected their claims. So rebels killed Hazrat Usman in the name Of ISLAM for being Unjust ruler

 

[al-Hasani]

@WebMaster

Please close this trolling thread.

 

[Bratva]

@WebMaster

Please close this trolling thread.

This is a serious question, If Quran is so crystal clear, then why for the last 12-1300 years, misinterpretations (as intellectuals of peace put it) of Quran and Sunnah continue to exist And the violence in the name of Quran and Sunnah that follows with it. ?

 

[Solomon2]

Islam and terrorism are not linked in anyway.

"One must go on jihad at least once a year...one may use a catapult against [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them...cut down their trees...destroy their useless books...take as booty whatever they decide..."

- Al Ghazali, Kitab al-Wagiz Fi Fiqh Madhab al-Imam al-Safi'i, (Beirut, 1979), pp. 186, 190-91.

 

[al-Hasani]

This is a serious question, If Quran is so crystal clear, then why for the last 12-1300 years, misinterpretations of Quran and Sunnah continue to exist

Why are people doing bad deeds every day?

Killing, raping, lying, whoring (excuse my language) outside of marriage, drinking alcohol, being criminal when it is obvious that this is against common sense?

The noble Qur'an is the divine word of Allah (swt) and is perfect and crystal clear. So is the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saws). The fault are that of Muslims and Muslims are not perfect and never were but Islam is and always will be because we as Muslims believe that this is the divine guidance and law of Allah (swt) the Lord of all mankind and of the universe.

Why are Muslims not perfect and doing bad deeds? Because they are human. But Allah (swt) gave us our own free will to make our own choices between doing good or bad deeds and as Muslims we are OBLIGATED to do as many good deeds and as less bad deeds as possible and for that we believe that we will be rewarded in the afterlife or worse punished.

You as a non-Muslim do not need to believe this but we as Muslims do believe in it.

Now stop trolling.

 

[Armstrong]

And hencmy gullible follow, you need to revisit Islamic history.

Long story short, Band of muslim rebels accused Hazrat Usman be unjust ruler and not following Quran and sunnah. Hazrat Usman rejected their claims. So rebels killed Hazrat Usman in the name Of ISLAM for being Unjust ruler

I've read similar & I've read differently as well - I just don't think that the raison detre presented is anymore peculiar than the one presented by the assassins of others !

Take the example of Gandhi Sahib - He was killed by a Hindu Zealot because of being too soft on the Muslims !

Was he ? Not from where we stood & looked on ! But he certainly was from where he stood !

The point isn't what was said or what wasn't the point is that if these acts are to be taken to be acts of terrorism than everything that man has ever done when he has picked up arms even with the best of intentions is an act of terrorism !

Therefore I think we should stick with some of the more black-and-white definitions of it like when a bunch of Muslim Extremists rammed their planes into the World Trade Center or when a bunch of Christian zealot emptied his magazine into his own fellow Christians because of Islam's penetrative influence over Europe or some sh*t like that !

So @Arabian Legend - Does @al-Hasani 'thanking' my posts except the one in which I took a dig at Chemistry indicate that the Chemical Engineer in him flared up when I committed the blasphemy of implying that Chemistry is such a dull, dry & outright boring subject ?

 

[Bratva]

Why are people doing bad deeds every day?

Killing, raping, lying, whoring (excuse my language) outside of marriage, drinking alcohol, being criminal when it is obvious that this is against common sense?

The noble Qur'an is the divine word of Allah (swt) and is perfect and crystal clear. So is the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saws). The fault are that of Muslims and Muslims are not perfect and never were but Islam is and always will be because we as Muslims believe that this is the divine guidance and law of Allah (swt) the Lord of all mankind and of the universe.

Why are Muslims not perfect and doing bad deeds? Because they are human. But Allah (swt) gave us our own will to make our own choices and as Muslims we are OBLIGATED to do as many good deeds and as less bad deeds as possible and for that we believe that we will be rewarded in the afterlife.

You as a non-Muslim do not need to believe this but we as Muslims do believe in it.

Now stop trolling.

See instead of clearing doubt of another fellow muslim, you start to label them non muslim.

Ok let me put it in other way. People follow Islam as their sages and savants interpreted them. Shiaa's follow Islam as per their interpretation, so is Wahaabi, salafai, Sunni and other sects of Islaam.

Why so many different interpretations exist of a pure divine law?

So Salaafi beleive violence and killing is justified as per Quran and Hadith of fellow muslims.

Whose fault is it?

I've read similar & I've read differently as well - I just don't think that the raison detre presented is anymore peculiar than the one presented by the assassins of others !

Take the example of Gandhi Sahib - He was killed by a Hindu Zealot because of being too soft on the Muslims !

Was he ? Not from where we stood & looked on ! But he certainly was from where he stood !

The point isn't what was said or what wasn't the point is that if these acts are to be taken to be acts of terrorism than everything that man has ever done when he has picked up arms even with the best of intentions is an act of terrorism !

Therefore I think we should stick with some of the more black-and-white definitions of it like when a bunch of Muslim Extremists rammed their planes into the World Trade Center or when a bunch of Christian zealot emptied his magazine into his own fellow Christians because of Islam's penetrative influence over Europe or some sh*t like that !

So @Arabian Legend - Does @al-Hasani 'thanking' my posts except the one in which I took a dig at Chemistry indicate that the Chemical Engineer in him flared up when I committed the blasphemy of implying that Chemistry is such a dull, dry & outright boring subject ?

This is an idealistic approach taken by a non sectarian person. Problem is world isn't that black and white and division of Islaam begin with killing of Usman in the name of Islam which gave justification to people to kill fellow muslims in name of Islam and that's what happening every where up to this day. From Syria, Iraq to Pakistan.

 

[al-Hasani]

@mafiya

How should I know that you claim to be a Muslim? Does it say Muslim in your user profile?

I just assumed that this was not the case since you questioned the divinity of the Noble Qur'an as well as the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saws). That's not something Muslims are supposed to do since it is crystal clear.

Not going to reply to such "stupid" questions. You are free to educate yourself on that matter or consult a Muslim scholar. Asking such questions on a forum like this and in a thread like this is hardly a place for a serious and academic discussion. But I can tell you that I have answered similar questions in the past.

 

[Armstrong]

"One must go on jihad at least once a year...one may use a catapult against [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them...cut down their trees...destroy their useless books...take as booty whatever they decide..."

- Al Ghazali, Kitab al-Wagiz Fi Fiqh Madhab al-Imam al-Safi'i, (Beirut, 1979), pp. 186, 190-91.

Can you please give me a link to this book because I can't find a mention of any Kitab al-Waghiz Fi Fiqh Madhab al-Imam al-Safi'i ever authored by Al-Ghazali in any listing of his works I've come across !

 

[Jaanbaz]

"One must go on jihad at least once a year...one may use a catapult against [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them...cut down their trees...destroy their useless books...take as booty whatever they decide..."

- Al Ghazali, Kitab al-Wagiz Fi Fiqh Madhab al-Imam al-Safi'i, (Beirut, 1979), pp. 186, 190-91.

Hey Wahabis are your bed fellows. Don't blame all Muslims. If all Muslims were wahabi then i could understand all Muslims being called terrorists.
Don't copy paste quotes from websites such as islamwatch.

 

[Solomon2]

Can you please give me a link to this book because I can't find a mention of any Kitab al-Waghiz Fi Fiqh Madhab al-Imam al-Safi'i ever authored by Al-Ghazali in any listing of his works I've come across !

If it was online I wouldn't have to give the full bibliographic reference, would I?

 

[Arabian Legend]

Not a different argument but interlinked. Doesn't Fitna of Hazrat Usman (R.A) killing is a precursor to the killing of Hazrat Hussain and Hassan (R.A) killings? and the division of Islam?

Khaarjities Used Quran as a mean to wage war against Hazrat Ali (R.A) and subsequent muslim empires. To this day, kharjities exist, I wonder if Violence doesn't exist in Islam then why Muslims dearly quote Quran and Sunnah for perpetuating Islam. I mean If Islaam and Quran is so clear, then why there are misinterpretations?

Yes its a different argument. There is a difference b/t Islam encourages violence and the use of Islam as a mean for whatever purposes be it political or ideological. Islam is so clear that it forbids the killing of others in the name of it as its clearly mentioned in the Quran that if you kill an innocent person no matter what this person religion might be, nationality or race as if you killed whole mankind.


There you said it the Khwarij who went against Uthman RA and the killing of Ali and his son Al-Husaaien RA. Those people weren't motived by Islamic ideology but by political difference.

O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.

Surah Al Nisa

and here is from Hadeeth

Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “It is necessary upon a Muslim to listen to and obey the ruler in things he likes and dislikes, as long as he is not ordered to carry out a sin. If he is commanded to commit a sin, then there is no adherence and obedience.” (Sunan Tirmidhi)

Narrated Junada bin Abi Umaiya: We entered upon 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was sick. We said, “May Allah make you healthy. Will you tell us a Hadith you heard from the Prophet and by which Allah may make you benefit?" He said, "The Prophet called us and we gave him the Pledge of allegiance for Islam, and among the conditions on which he took the Pledge from us, was that we were to listen and obey (the orders) both at the time when we were active and at the time when we were tired, and at our difficult time and at our ease and to be obedient to the ruler and give him his right even if he did not give us our right, and not to fight against him UNLESS WE NOTICED HIM HAVING OPEN KUFR for which we would have a proof with us from Allah.”

“The meaning of “open Kufr” is “clear and apparent” and the meaning of “having a proof from Allah” is a clear text of the Qur’an or an authentic Hadith both of which are unambiguous and not subject to speculation (ta’wil). Therefore, it is not permissible to go against the leader as long as his action is open to interpretation.

At the end let me tell why there are misinterpretation of the Quran and the Sunnah.

One verse from the Quran explains it well.

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

So again please differentiate b/t Islam and political events where Islam is used to gain personal interest.

Dont blame the book but blame the reader.

 

[Armstrong]

If it was online I wouldn't have to give the full bibliographic reference, would I?

I see; I'm sure you can give a reference from other credible sources which mention this in the list of the works attributed to him because I can't find a mention of it in any list I've seen & only does that exact bibliographic reference complete with the 'Beirut' mention pops up when one types in 'Kitab al-Waghiz Fi Fiqh Madhab al-Imam al-Safi'i' instead of it being mentioned in any other source where his works are listed !

 

[xuxu1457]

On my own view point, I don't follow any religion now, and I believe all religions tell followers to be a kind man, not hurt others. Any one who call for others to do bad things at the name of religion is not true believers. I like religions thougth I am not a believer of any religion.

 

[Bratva]

@mafiya

How should I know that you claim to be a Muslim? Does it say Muslim in your user profile?

I just assumed that this was not the case since you questioned the divinity of the Noble Qur'an as well as the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saws). That's not something Muslims are supposed to do since it is crystal clear.

Not going to reply to such "stupid" questions. You are free to educate yourself on that matter or consult a Muslim scholar. Asking such questions on a forum like this and in a thread like this is hardly a place for a serious and academic discussion. But I can tell you that I have answered similar questions in the past.

And judging by your response, I could imagine you would have pushed those persons further apart from Islam.