Nawaz will go to IMF - Imran will collect taxes: Choice is yours

[Sedqal]

You have gone nuts... tax is collected every time you step out of your house, cook bread and drink water!
Only thing which is not taxed so far is air and Asif Ali Zardari had a plan to tax it but due to the risk of making Pakistan a tax fame this idea was dropped out.

Pakistan is not a banana state... every income is taxed until you belong to political party. This is why we have so many political parties.

Your savings are taxed your investments are taxed.

Pakistan is the only country where you are taxed even if you don't earn money... actually overseas Pakistanis are taxed most for their investments.

Please, also cut the crap of charging tax in foreign currency... it is indian idea who are desperately trying to get more out of Pakistani tax collections.

Pakistanis spend billions of dollars to sustain indian transit through its air and land, that is all paid to IMF in USD.

Since very few people actually pay taxes Govt has increased indirect taxes on general items. This is clearly wrong as salaried people (who make the biggest chunk of tax payers) are then paying taxes twice to make up for the majority which does not pay direct taxes. Musharraf tried to increase the tax base by promising 5% tax on net income and abolished the wealth tax. Later on he changed the 5% tax policy.

Just be happy that at least we got rid of Wealth taxes That and payment of utility bills in Pakistan Post offices are two great things he did in his (illegal) tenure.

 

[BATMAN]

Tax to GDP means that how much of the economic resources are documented and under policy control of the government and how much of the economy is un-taxed and black. The higher the Tax/GDP, the more documented the economy is. And you guys all blame IMF but it was IMF which pushed Pakistan government for documentation of economy -which is a shame- a flat tax as proposed by imran would be regressive one. First on the agenda for every government should be to document the economy. Once they do that, they can better understand the behavior of economy and then and only then a proper tax policy can be put in place. But the biggest opposition to this is the business community which has escaped it twice successfully (once in musharraf era and once in PPP era). Its a real hard nut to crack along with agricultural reforms.

Yes but where do you get the false figures?

I'm all in to compare tax on each and every product with any country of the world.
Choose your list of items.

In any case Pakistani shave very misplaced concept of taxation... if taxation mean giving salaries and authority to political appointees than sorry it means extortion of money.

 

[SBD-3]

Yes but where do you get the false figures?

I'm all in to compare tax on each and every product with any country of the world.
Choose your list of items.

In any case Pakistani shave very misplaced concept of taxation... if taxation mean giving salaries and authority to political appointees than sorry it means extortion of money.

I didn't qoute a single figure. what figures are you referring to?

 

[BATMAN]

Since very few people actually pay taxes Govt has increased indirect taxes on general items. This is clearly wrong as salaried people (who make the biggest chunk of tax payers) are then paying taxes twice to make up for the majority which does not pay direct taxes. Musharraf tried to increase the tax base by promising 5% tax on net income and abolished the wealth tax. Later on he changed the 5% tax policy.

Just be happy that at least we got rid of Wealth taxes That and payment of utility bills in Pakistan Post offices are two great things he did in his (illegal) tenure.

So in other words you are accepting that Pakistan tax is highest in the world. Than why not facilities against tax are best in the world?
I'm sorry to tell you that govt. has came up with this unique plan not because Pakistanis don't pay tax but because Pakistanis have no income source to be taxed.

FYI... There is direct tax on every income & comoditiy... every bank transaction and every withdrawal is taxed, if few thousand politicians don't pay taxes than it is because the are there to collect taxes.... Imran Khan is one of the richest Pakistanis but he don't pay tax but he get away by pointing finger at Nawaz Sharif!

Now look at overseas Pakistanis.. they do not earn a penny in Pakistan but their bank accounts are taxed, there propertoies are taxed airports are taxed, roads are taxed, bridges are taxed and on top of it invisible extortion in the name of surcharge!

Imran Khan has seen UK and is tryin gto copy it failed public service system..... ask any Pakistani or Indian in UK and they will tell you how corrupt that system is.

What Pakistan need is to get rid of politicians and civil servants and introduce transparency.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Since very few people actually pay taxes Govt has increased indirect taxes on general items. This is clearly wrong as salaried people (who make the biggest chunk of tax payers) are then paying taxes twice to make up for the majority which does not pay direct taxes. Musharraf tried to increase the tax base by promising 5% tax on net income and abolished the wealth tax. Later on he changed the 5% tax policy.

Just be happy that at least we got rid of Wealth taxes That and payment of utility bills in Pakistan Post offices are two great things he did in his (illegal) tenure.

Dear poster,

Please get educated on this topic.

Sitting in America means you probably know very little about our economy. And why should you anyways?



It is foolish to talk about taxes.


In reality we should always talk about revenues.

Taxes are just a part of revenues that Pakistani gov needs to function.


In a 3rd world country like India or Pakistan, the government needs two kind of revenues.


--- Revenues in Rupees (Soft currency revenue)
--- Revenues in Dollars/Euros/pounds. (Hard currency revenue)


Rupee revenue means jack $hit. Pak gov can always print more. Sure there is some limit. But it can print. This is why it is called soft currency revenue. Yeah yeah if you print too much you may have some troubles too. But that's besides the point.


Where we get into trouble is not rupee revenue. It is the other kind of revenue, that comes in dollars, Euors, the hard currency revenue.


And no matter how much taxes we collect in Pakistan, it can never be in hard currency.


I hope you get the point.

I hope so.



peace

 

[BATMAN]

if Pakistan needs revenues than they shall stop smuggling... Pakistan markets are full of smuggled products.. people of Pakistan shall start buying Pakistani products.

Govt. shall ban flight of capital and those involved in past shall be made to pay back.

Unfortunately, no politician will promise you support to local industry.

Pakistan's energy crisis was engineered to raise smuggling, it all revolves around smuggling.

 

[RazorMC]

Dear poster,

Please get educated on this topic.

Sitting in America means you probably know very little about our economy. And why should you anyways?



It is foolish to talk about taxes.


In reality we should always talk about revenues.

Taxes are just a part of revenues that Pakistani gov needs to function.


In a 3rd world country like India or Pakistan, the government needs two kind of revenues.


--- Revenues in Rupees (Soft currency revenue)
--- Revenues in Dollars/Euros/pounds. (Hard currency revenue)


Rupee revenue means jack $hit. Pak gov can always print more. Sure there is some limit. But it can print. This is why it is called soft currency revenue. Yeah yeah if you print too much you may have some troubles too. But that's besides the point.


Where we get into trouble is not rupee revenue. It is the other kind of revenue, that comes in dollars, Euors, the hard currency revenue.


And no matter how much taxes we collect in Pakistan, it can never be in hard currency.


I hope you get the point.

I hope so.



peace

True, but getting more rupees pays for the development projects which only need local materials. We have coal and cement and iron/steel and copper. So the PKR notes can pay for roads and power cabling and some basic manufactured goods at the very least.

As for forex, our recent agreement with China for PKR trade saves some dollars there and some can be saved from the IP gas pipeline (if the Iranians accept PKR as well).

Wrt to your previous post, I disagree on the agriculture tax. It exists, but there's almost zero collection. I'm against taxing an essential food commodity though and agri-goods are better left alone to make the produce more affordable to the general public.

Your point about the mom-n-pops is also crucial. These guys are around every corner, transfer all taxes to consumer/buyers, earn thousands every month and pay zero tax. They're hoarding wealth while the employees bear the entire commercial tax burden.

So in other words you are accepting that Pakistan tax is highest in the world. Than why not facilities against tax are best in the world?
.....
What Pakistan need is to get rid of politicians and civil servants and introduce transparency.

Compare Pakistan's current income tax (people earning below PKR 10,000 per month are exempted) with the 35% personal income tax in most US states with no exemptions.

And how do propose to get rid of civil servants. They are the cogs that make the machinery functional. We can make improvements but getting rid of them will shut down critical services in Pakistan.

 

[FaujHistorian]

True, but getting more rupees pays for the development projects which only need local materials. We have coal and cement and iron/steel and copper. So the PKR notes can pay for roads and power cabling and some basic manufactured goods at the very least.

As for forex, our recent agreement with China for PKR trade saves some dollars there and some can be saved from the IP gas pipeline (if the Iranians accept PKR as well).......

As I said before, we go to IMF to get our international trade deficit in check. Our dollar-deficit is our biggest problem. paying salaries in rupees is tough but not the main issue.

So please focus on our issues specific to dollars/Euro/pound aka hard currency.

And Pak-rupees do not help in reducing our dollar-deficit, no matter how hard you try.


And please do not make empty statements like "agreement with China for PKR trade " without showing us their worth.

Is it more than a billion dollar or less, is it more than a 10 billion dollars or less, is it more than a 100 billion dollar or less?


Hope you get the point.



We have so many smart people in Pakistan, but unfortunately they refuse, utterly utterly refuse to do some analysis before putting their opinion (and that results in $stupid decisions).


peace

 

[SBD-3]

Dear poster,

Please get educated on this topic.

Sitting in America means you probably know very little about our economy. And why should you anyways?



It is foolish to talk about taxes.


In reality we should always talk about revenues.

Taxes are just a part of revenues that Pakistani gov needs to function.


In a 3rd world country like India or Pakistan, the government needs two kind of revenues.


--- Revenues in Rupees (Soft currency revenue)
--- Revenues in Dollars/Euros/pounds. (Hard currency revenue)


Rupee revenue means jack $hit. Pak gov can always print more. Sure there is some limit. But it can print. This is why it is called soft currency revenue. Yeah yeah if you print too much you may have some troubles too. But that's besides the point.


Where we get into trouble is not rupee revenue. It is the other kind of revenue, that comes in dollars, Euors, the hard currency revenue.


And no matter how much taxes we collect in Pakistan, it can never be in hard currency.


I hope you get the point.

I hope so.



peace

These are not called soft and hard revenues.Revenues are classified as in-land or external revenues based on their domicile but there is no distinction based on type of currency.

 

[FaujHistorian]

These are not called soft and hard revenues.Revenues are classified as in-land or external revenues based on their domicile but there is no distinction based on type of currency.

If there is no difference based on currency, then how would you expense out of these revenues? for a specific item.

For imports would you pay for rupees or dollars?

Obviously dollars.

And dollars we do not have,.

to pay for interest, tea, petrol, and what not.

That's why we go to IMF and world bank and ask them for $$ to pay for the imports and interest payments.


peace

 

[SBD-3]

If there is no difference based on currency, then how would you expense out of these revenues? for a specific item.

For imports would you pay for rupees or dollars?

Obviously dollars.

And dollars we do not have,.

to pay for interest, tea, petrol, and what not.

That's why we go to IMF and world bank and ask them for $$ to pay for the imports and interest payments.


peace

I have explained it all here.

 

[Fracker]

no on in Pakistan Pays that much taxes.
In fact no one on earth, with the exception of some European Countires, pays that much income tax.

You Sir a liar and a thief for supporting a thief.

You are Blind plus weak in mathematics, where did i said Income Tax? 27+GST +15% Income Tax + 3% W.H Tax + all other indirect taxes. Can you tell me how much they are?

Looks like most of the PML(N) followers don't understand Urdu now.

I.Khan is talking about increasing the tax base not the tax-rates.

realy? read his jalsa again, he said Taxes, nothing mentioned like tax base or circle. but in any case all taxes directly effect in the end to consumer, means indirect taxes.

 

[FaujHistorian]

i think Husnain has summarized the best when he said in his earlier post:

"Pakistan's biggest problem and reason for dependency on IMF is that our External Account is negative. Raising Taxes help domestic economy but defeating dependence on IMF would require external account re-engineering. "


Our external account can be fixed easily. It is not magic, and it doesn't need some high powered man from moon.


Just follow the habits and rules and traditions of people from China, Taiwan, or South Korea..

If you do it sincerely for 5 to 10 years then

Ta Da!


The account is fixed.



Barking up on IMF, or God, or Angle Gabrial, or your dog and cat is not going to fix it.

 

[jha]

It seems Pakistan has voted for IMF over tax...

just kidding..

 

[tarrar]

Nawaz Sharif saying we will go to IMF vs Imran Khan telling business community in Faislabad we will collect taxes.... CHOICE IS Yours

People want IMF loans & more heavy debts.