Nawaz Sharif's bullet train

[Kabira]

But the living standards in KPK compared to Lahore would be lower in terms of wages, business activity etc. It would all depend on the price of the ticket and if locals could afford to ride such a expensive train like the bullet train.

One example is that in China the price a top price for a ticket from Beijing to Guangzhou is more than 2,000 yuan, or 317 U.S. dollars, comparable to the price of an air ticket.


This type of investment is not viable it would make better sense to have a standard high speed line instead of going for a expensive bullet train.

Karachi-Peshawar train cover all most every major Pak city including Lahore, look at the map.

 

[xyxmt]

Indeed. I also used to think it'd be awesome for Pakistan to have bullet trains. But simply put, Pakistan is not a rich nation nor do the people have money to spend for expensive tickets. It makes sense to have it, however, being a small country and having good population density in many areas.

With that in mind, it's best to go for 200km/h. I think current speed is 100, so if we get 200 of speed, it'd be very good. Finally, Pakistan is plagued with terrorism. They'd love to blow up bullet trains, since they're costly and very good chance of massive distruction due to the speed they travel at. One or two attacks, people will stop taking the train and it'd mean a loss making project.

Pakistan won't be needing bullet trains for at least 30-50 years. When that time comes, bullet trains will be cheaper or even be replaced by better technology.

Pakistan need to take baby steps, lets first go back to 70s facilities then talk about more developments. Currently Pakistan lack of intellect in managing and running big project. With the track records we have in last 20 years, the bullet train management will be given to some Niazi bus owner just as PIA's management is given a Pilot captain and steel mills is given to a colonel. So, lets make the current 100 KPH track functioning then upgrade it to 200.
Waiting to buy a Frrarri I wont even upgrade my pinto because i plan of buying a frrari when i have money which i will never have

 

[Kabira]

LAHORE:
A 23-member delegation of Chinese technical experts, led by Meng Wenli, Chief Engineer Alignment, will come on a trip to Pakistan at the weekend to pick the areas for an investment of $3.5 billion and complete the rehabilitation and replacement of tracks from Karachi to Peshawar.

The delegation, comprising representatives of China Railway Eeyuan Engineering Group Company, would arrive on October 25 and undertake a comprehensive study of a 1,400-km rail track with the technical support of the National Engineering Services of Pakistan (Nespak) and the Pakistan Railways Consultancy and Advisory Service, said an official.

The survey will also cover 2,340 bridges and 11 tunnels from Karachi to Peshawar via Hyderabad, Bahawalpur, Multan, Sahiwal, Lahore, Gujranwala, Gujrat, Jhelum, Rawalpindi and Attock.

Initially, the visit was scheduled for May this year, but was delayed and rescheduled for the last week of October. The team will prepare a report and submit it in February next year to the governments of China and Pakistan for further deliberation and reaching agreements.

China has expressed interest in pouring about $3.5 billion into infrastructure development for the railways. The areas where the money will be injected include replacement of rail tracks over 375 km, deep screening of ballast over 1,260 km, conversion of un-manned level-crossing into underpasses at 50 places, conversion of manned level-crossing into flyovers at 250 places, realignment of 40 big curves, strengthening of 500 bridges and doubling a 438km track at various places between Shahdara and Peshawar.

“This investment is, in fact, a loan being given by China at a concessionary interest rate of 1.5% under the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor,” the official said. “It will be released by the Export-Import Bank of China after receiving sovereign guarantees from the Pakistan government.”

The average speed passenger trains could run on this rail track is in the range of 85 to 105 km per hour, but they do not accelerate above 95 km per hour.

“After the replacement of tracks, the trains will run at the maximum speed of 120 km per hour for the next 15 to 20 years,” the official said.

Pakistan Railways: China to inject $3.5b into infrastructure development – The Express Tribune

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well Japan made their train system post their war destruction , and now they have better system then most countries

Nawaz sharif launched yellow cab scheme - FAILED
Nawaz sharif launched laptop scheme - FAILED
Nawaz sharif launched bullet train scheme - FAILED

These schemes failed due to the short term focus on the projects all the projects were short term gain which lasted mere 4-5 years duration

 

[Judge]

Indeed. I also used to think it'd be awesome for Pakistan to have bullet trains. But simply put, Pakistan is not a rich nation nor do the people have money to spend for expensive tickets. It makes sense to have it, however, being a small country and having good population density in many areas.

With that in mind, it's best to go for 200km/h. I think current speed is 100, so if we get 200 of speed, it'd be very good. Finally, Pakistan is plagued with terrorism. They'd love to blow up bullet trains, since they're costly and very good chance of massive distruction due to the speed they travel at. One or two attacks, people will stop taking the train and it'd mean a loss making project.

Pakistan won't be needing bullet trains for at least 30-50 years. When that time comes, bullet trains will be cheaper or even be replaced by better technology.

Current average train speed of passenger trains in both India and Pakistan is around 80 kmph. Not 100 kmph. Only a few trains run at 100 kmph for short distances.

India is investing to upgrade this to around 150 kmph average speed all over India, because it is downright fucking impossible to spend like China to roll out a national high speed network.

Right now, we are focusing on building only two high speed corridors and upgrading the rest of the n/w to semi-high speed(150-180kmph).
Note: While technically the same tracks can be used to run trains at 200 kmph, the real average speed will come around to 150-170 kmph only because of numerous factors.

That said, even 150 kmph will be almost double the current speed of the trains.

Dont even ask the average speed of goods trains in India and Pakistan. Its embarrassing to even mention it.

 

[WishLivePak]

Current average train speed in both India and Pakistan is around 80 kmph. Not 100 kmph. Only a few trains run at 100 kmph for short distances.

India is investing to upgrade this to around 150 kmph average speed all over India. Note: While technically the same tracks can be used to run trains at 200 kmph, the real average speed will come around to 150-170 kmph only.

That said, even 150 kmph will be almost double the current speed of the trains.

Pakistan doesn't have a lot of train tracks to upgrade, so we should go for 200.

Meanwhile India is a big nation, where it may not be sound to upgrade some tracks to 200 (small city etc). Our tracks start from Peshawar and end up in Karachi, so entire route being upgraded to 200km/h is going to be great.

I don't know what is the cost difference between 150 and 200km/h tracks.

 

[Judge]

Pakistan doesn't have a lot of train tracks to upgrade, so we should go for 200.

Meanwhile India is a big nation, where it may not be sound to upgrade some tracks to 200 (small city etc). Our tracks start from Peshawar and end up in Karachi, so entire route being upgraded to 200km/h is going to be great.

I don't know what is the cost difference between 150 and 200km/h tracks.

Its the same.
I said the same train tracks can be upgrade to achieve a maximum of 200 kmph theoretically but practically, it will achieve only bw 150-170 kmph average (in India as well as Pakistan).

Right now both goods trains and passenger trains run on the same tracks. Well, currently the Indian plan is to first build new and segregated tracks to for goods lines and passenger trains.

Its called DFC - Dedicated Freight Corridor project which is being built with Japanese financial equity. It will raise the speed of freight trains from a current 25 kmph to around 80 kmph in a 1500 km industrial manufacturing belt (from Delhi to Mumbai) that is being created.

The entire project is a $90 billion project including the DFIC

 

[WishLivePak]

Its the same.
I said the same train tracks can be upgrade to achieve a maximum of 200 kmph theoretically but practically, it will achieve only bw 150-170 kmph average (in India as well as Pakistan).

Right now both goods trains and passenger trains run on the same tracks. Well, currently the Indian plan is to first build new and segregated tracks to for goods lines and passenger trains.

Its called DFC - Dedicated Freight Corridor project which is being built with Japanese financial equity. It will raise the speed of freight trains from a current 25 kmph to around 80 kmph in a 1500 km industrial manufacturing belt (from Delhi to Mumbai) that is being created.

The entire project is a $90 billion project including the DFIC

Well if it costs the same, then go for 200km/h. I believer over 200km/h will cost more. Of course a train won't run at 200km/h (just like airplanes don't travel at full speed, but at cruising speed). But since they either travel at 175, 176, 177 or whatever, i'd just use the max speed of 200.

We're building gawadar train track to china (west pakistan), which I suppose can be heavily used for goods supply and karachi to peshawar can be used for passenger service (since these tracks cover majority of population). We can also use frieght and passenger combo I suppose.

See west Pakistan is like empty, since population there is not a lot. Hence we don't need o have dedicated tracks. Instead west Pakistan can do goods (since gawadar is basically being built for pak-china corridor) and east pakistan can do passenger (as majority of population lives there).

We're poor nation so double tracks is out of question. Now tell me, is upgrading existing tracks cheaper/better or building new ones? For example, build a seperate 200km/h track for passenger and leave the existing tracks for cargo.

 

[Panther 57]

When i read the title i was about to comment on Motorway connecting Peshawar but when i read the opening post it came out that the author is also talking about it.

All praise for NS for motorways BUT the fact is also that Peshawar part of the motorway was built during Musharraf govt as NS did not pay any attention to it as he dint have vote bank here

It has been proven over the period of time that capitalism, communism or socialism are not the the best form in totality. It is the combination of all. Failure of socialism is evident through fate of Russia. Communism can only be successful with dedication and sincerity as a result everyone barely lives. Capitalism breeds monpolisation, contrary to what the author writes. It has shown the world of buying it if you cannot beat it. Example of Microsoft buying Fox and ultimately destroying the building also which once housed fox.

A prudent look into Islamic economic system indicates that it is combination of all these systems. It is only through balanced combination and appropriate control, everyone will live a full life.

As regard Mr NS is concerned he is dynasty is following the principles of Microsoft. If he executes the projects without personal stake in it, I am sure benefits from the project can be achieved at much lower costs then what has been incurred. There is no denial of the fact that communication network is necessary for every growing population of this country. We need underground metros, roads, bridges, bullet trains and motorways. But not the way it is being executed. Recent example of Shariff dynasty is underpass at Jinnah Hospital on canal. except for the underpass which has replaced a free lane the chaos still persists. Going slightly back is construction of Kalma underpass, it was confusing earlier and even more confusing now. It could have been executed in a much better way. Metro project was a mess during construction. some places crossings without appropriate arrangement and some places distance between the boundary and road insufficient for the bus to move. Finally, it has completed and serving one route. Same amount of money could have given Lahore an underground rail network to support mass transit, reducing traffic on the road. He has played havoc with Islamabad and plans to play the same havoc with Karachi also. He has to realise that solution for these megapolis is not metro buses but metro trains supported by buses, with major load on trains; that too underground. If someone can give him the idea that setting up metro train mass transit would bring more revenue to itefaq foundry, may put him in right direction.

Coming to Lahore - Karachi motorway. It is interesting to note that M-8 would come to Karachi from Balochistan and M-9 will go from Karachi to Hyderabad. A better planning could have avoided extra miles travel to commuters.

 

[Judge]

Well if it costs the same, then go for 200km/h. I believer over 200km/h will cost more. Of course a train won't run at 200km/h (just like airplanes don't travel at full speed, but at cruising speed). But since they either travel at 175, 176, 177 or whatever, i'd just use the max speed of 200.

We're building gawadar train track to china (west pakistan), which I suppose can be heavily used for goods supply and karachi to peshawar can be used for passenger service (since these tracks cover majority of population). We can also use frieght and passenger combo I suppose. View attachment 185131
See west Pakistan is like empty, since population there is not a lot. Hence we don't need o have dedicated tracks. Instead west Pakistan can do goods (since gawadar is basically being built for pak-china corridor) and east pakistan can do passenger (as majority of population lives there).

We're poor nation so double tracks is out of question. Now tell me, is upgrading existing tracks cheaper/better or building new ones? For example, build a seperate 200km/h track for passenger and leave the existing tracks for cargo.

Your main industrial belt is in and around Karachi, Lahore and Sialkot. You cannot ignore the current industrial regions which bring maximum revenue to Pakistan, because of what Gwadar may or may not become one decade from now.
So double tracks are necessary there to raise the speed of both goods trains as well as passenger trains.

In Balochistan and like areas however, only a single track will suffice since there are few people to use the passenger services.

Over 200 kmph requires different tracks and hence becomes expensive. Therefore a semi-high speed n/w (with a real average speed of 150-170kmph, a theoretical maximum speed of 200 kmph) serves as a nice compromise to building a countrywide HSR.

An HSR may be built for marquee purposes as a showcase in one route or two depending on the need. Maybe Lahore to Islamabad.
The Indian HSR will be built between Mumbai and Ahmedabad(Gujarat).

Same amount of money could have given Lahore an underground rail network to support mass transit, reducing traffic on the road. He has played havoc with Islamabad and plans to play the same havoc with Karachi also. He has to realise that solution for these megapolis is not metro buses but metro trains supported by buses, with major load on trains; that too underground.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride(India and Pakistan both to the beggars list).

You need to understand that while you are right in that a proper Metro(as opposed to a BRT which is called MetroBus in Pakistan) is required to alleivate the traffic issues of any major populated city, a completely underground metro network is far too expensive for developing countries.

Almost every country building a Metro now uses a blend of underground and elevated tracks to balance costs. In the areas where there is no space or a lot of congestion, the Metro goes underground, in areas where the roads are wide and there is space, the Metro tracks take the elevated route.

Per kilometer, an underground track takes around 4-5 times the per kilometer cost of an elevated track. For example, if the elevated metro track costs INR 30 crore per km, then the underground section in the same area would cost round INR 150 crore per kilometer!

You cannot wish away these realities. Though I agree that a completely underground Metro is the most desirable solution and makes the city appear less cluttered!

And building a Metro is multiple times more expensive than building a BRT.

Which is why almost all countries building Metro's now use both - underground sections and elevated sections while also building BRT that integrates with the Metro network to balance costs and make the transport system of the city financially viable so that it sustains.

 

[punit]

Well if it costs the same, then go for 200km/h. I believer over 200km/h will cost more. Of course a train won't run at 200km/h (just like airplanes don't travel at full speed, but at cruising speed). But since they either travel at 175, 176, 177 or whatever, i'd just use the max speed of 200.

We're building gawadar train track to china (west pakistan), which I suppose can be heavily used for goods supply and karachi to peshawar can be used for passenger service (since these tracks cover majority of population). We can also use frieght and passenger combo I suppose. View attachment 185131
See west Pakistan is like empty, since population there is not a lot. Hence we don't need o have dedicated tracks. Instead west Pakistan can do goods (since gawadar is basically being built for pak-china corridor) and east pakistan can do passenger (as majority of population lives there).

We're poor nation so double tracks is out of question. Now tell me, is upgrading existing tracks cheaper/better or building new ones? For example, build a seperate 200km/h track for passenger and leave the existing tracks for cargo.

dont question my intention ! but why there is so few train tracks in Baluchistan. lack of population or something else ?

 

[Panther 57]

dont question my intention ! but why there is so few train tracks in Baluchistan. lack of population or something else ?

1. Balochistan is the smallest province by population and largest with respect to size. Thus not economically feasible to run trains in every corner. Number of people also less.
2. Terrain difficulty of lying track.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride(India and Pakistan both to the beggars list).

LOL

Almost every country building a Metro now uses a blend of underground and elevated tracks to balance costs. In the areas where there is no space or a lot of congestion, the Metro goes underground, in areas where the roads are wide and there is space, the Metro tracks take the elevated route.

Which is why almost all countries building Metro's now use both - underground sections and elevated sections while also building BRT that integrates with the Metro network to balance costs and make the transport system of the city financially viable so that it sustains.

This is exactly what i said in different words.

Both India and Pakistan have no control over the exponential population growth, Therefore, space overland is shrinking. It is essential that traffic on roads is reduced to manageable level, which can serve the purpose efficiently. It can be through sky trains or underground. At this point in time it is not the money but the menace which has to be countered. Yes from where this money is going to come? Of course through lesser corruption and sanity. It is an accepted fact that mass transit is the only solution which can help, however, buses cannot take the same amount of load as trains would. Mumbai has their train system since long successfully serving the purpose. The other day i saw the program on upgradation of Mumbai train system on National geographics. Good job done.

 

[Judge]

This is exactly what i said in different words.

Both India and Pakistan have no control over the exponential population growth, Therefore, space overland is shrinking. It is essential that traffic on roads is reduced to manageable level, which can serve the purpose efficiently. It can be through sky trains or underground. At this point in time it is not the money but the menace which has to be countered. Yes from where this money is going to come? Of course through lesser corruption and sanity. It is an accepted fact that mass transit is the only solution which can help, however, buses cannot take the same amount of load as trains would. Mumbai has their train system since long successfully serving the purpose. The other day i saw the program on upgradation of Mumbai train system on National geographics. Good job done.

Mumbai runs actual trains for their local service. And their train system is very outdated, the network being over 70 years old.

Their first Metro was only just recently opened, about 8 months back. Ultimately, Mumbai too will go the Delhi way and expand its Metro network as the mainstay( much faster than its railway network). Delhi already has around 200 kms of operational Metro and by 2017 will have over 300 kms of Metro. Overtaking the London Tube by around 2022.

Though Mumbai has a unique geography and conditions because of which the Metro will be made along E to West in parallel lines while the railways will run in N to South. Mumbai needs over $15 billion investment in just the transport sector - Rail, Metro as well as Roads, I hope the new Govt of Maharashtra will be able to gather the resources. They do seem to be very aggressive and focused.

At least they are making all the right noises. One can only hope they follow through.