Navy Chief quits over spate of submarine mishaps

[Dem!god]

@levina
so, what you think now.....what joshi did is correct or wrong....
whats your opinion.....

 

[PakEye]

Russian submarine standard / quality ??? , during the cold war the many russian neuk subs were stuck in Scandinavian region and other oceans

 

[Levina]

@levina
so, what you think now.....what joshi did is correct or wrong....
whats your opinion.....

Well if you had asked me this a while back I would have said that he should not have....as I have already posted in my 1st post on this thread.
But now that i glean more precisely into this...I think even the admiral to an extent was also responsible for the shambolic performance.
Navy officers were showing signs of indiscipline...The captains of INS Talwar, INS Betwa and INS Airavat have been stripped of their command in a span of one month for lapses that led to accidents under their watch, raising questions about leadership and training in the navy.


I have posted some articles in my previous post .
Now add this article too

Navy captain to be sacked for affair, may have leaked secrets to lover - Hindustan Times

Dont know who to blame...the officers...or MoD.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Still the question remains: Why has the Navy accepted to operate the subs if those are not sea-worthy? What happened to "Quality Control"? The other accidents involved modern surface ships of India and even though there were no fatalities, those incidences do not put the IN in good light.

If there are problems those problems must be raised clearly, but we cannot expect much from people who lick politicians' feet for promotion and kick-backs, the top brass of the armed forces is full of such people. Nobody cares about the servicemen.

The Navy chief did not resign voluntarily, he was asked to resign.

Okay you've put across a few points so let me clearly address each one.

1)Why has the Navy accepted to operate the subs if those are not sea-worthy?

The IN doesn't have much of a choice to be honest. The Subs are part of their fighting arm and are one of their most potent deterrents. If they took all their subs offline this would lead to a HUGE operational gap and would leave the IN increibly exposed. There are certain levels of deterrence, duties and capability the IN needs to maintain and the Subs are part of this. Ask yourself why the IAF didn't simply ground their entire MIG-21 fleet? Because they NEEDED them- they simply had no choice- neither does the IN for at least another few years.

Another point is that the IN cannot afford to have their fleet with out operational SSKs from a training perspective. Given the time between now and when the IN's next generation of SSKs come online is relatively short this is a time when they need to start ramping UP training not getting rid of such assets. This is part of the reason why the iN got the INS Chakra (to serve as a training platform for the IN's future Nuclear subs).



2)The other accidents involved modern surface ships of India and even though there were no fatalities,

I've addressed the fact that these such incidents actually go with the territory as far as operating a large modern navy is concerned. The reason there were no fatalities is because these were minor incidents. However even a minor incident on a Sub can lead to catastrophe given the nature of their work (i.e. working under the surface) so serving on and operating Subs is far more risky and prone to disaster than serving on and operating surface vessels. For instance a small fire on a surface ship can be contained and dealt with, a small fire on a sub can be game over and or can lead to fatalities.


3)those incidences do not put the IN in good light.

Well of course if you have the ignorant Indian media focusing on the wrong things, sensationalising and filling the common man's head with nonsense. For anyone that knows anything about these things such incidents aren't as worrisome as you will see the Media now portray them to be.


4)but we cannot expect much from people who lick politicians' feet for promotion

More NONSENSE. There is little actual evidence for this- promotions in the Indian Mil, right from the very top of the service to the junior ranks, is based on a combination of merit and experience, politicians have ZERO control over such things.


5)kick-backs

The instances of such things are actually minimal these days. The Indian defence procurement system is about as stringent as you can get these days and this has lead to some horrendous delays in defence purchases. The Indian MoD though is known across the defence industry to be very clean and stringent these days and Antony, I guess, can take some credit for this.

 

[Abingdonboy]

and you think navy is going to say their officer were drunk.....
I know this report....do you think I don't know to read....when I posted the link........
I say again ...its a unconfirmed source......do you think this indian express is unconfirmed source......

Again- NOTHING mentioning anyone being drunk. You can pull the typical indian media stunt of "unnamed sources" but I'm not going to believe you until you provide me evidence. This rumour nonsense is all too often nothing but BS. The navy will take punitive action against anyone found in the wrong- if anyone was drunk this will come out and they will be dealt with seriously. The IN has stripped Captains of command a few times now so this much is clear- you do wrong, they'll come at you and there won't be a cover up. This isn't how BoI's work.

 

[Dem!god]

Dont know who to blame...the officers...or MoD.

its difficult to say...
navy is expanding at very fast manner...
you know before many navy ships were kept grounded at harbors to save the cost.....
now they are enjoying the free water .....
so, it will take time fr men to mature in this regard....and I tell you...its a hard job...not easy one.....
even in a bit rough weather ship lingers and its hard to control.....

MoD is definitely to be blamed for not going for many new buying ....subs are too old....but we keep on using the same old one....
damn....

Again- NOTHING mentioning anyone being drunk. You can pull the typical indian media stunt of "unnamed sources" but I'm not going to believe you until you provide me evidence. This rumour nonsense is all too often nothing but BS. The navy will take punitive action against anyone found in the wrong- if anyone was drunk this will come out and they will be dealt with seriously. The IN has stripped Captains of command a few times now so this much is clear- you do wrong, they'll come at you and their won't be a cover up. This isn't how BoI's work.

no body is asking you to believe.......
that news was not quoted to you...anyway....

 

[Abingdonboy]

its difficult to say...
navy is expanding at very fast manner...
you know before many navy ships were kept grounded at harbors to save the cost.....
now they are enjoying the free water .....
so, it will take time fr men to mature in this regard....and I tell you...its a hard job...not easy one.....
even in a bit rough weather ship lingers and its hard to control.....

MoD is definitely to be blamed for not going for many new buying ....subs are too old....but we keep on using the same old one....
damn....


no body is asking you to believe.......
that news was not quoted to you...anyway....

Mate we are on the same side here but all I am trying to say/ask is please don't put out nonsense like xyz was drunk or such-this is a SERIOUS allegation, I don't think you quite understand how serious. And unless you can provide evidence to back this up all you are engaging in is slinger and are tainting individuals and the IN as a whole.

 

[Levina]

its difficult to say...
navy is expanding at very fast manner...
you know before many navy ships were kept grounded at harbors to save the cost.....
now they are enjoying the free water .....
so, it will take time fr men to mature in this regard....and I tell you...its a hard job...not easy one.....
even in a bit rough weather ship lingers and its hard to control.....

MoD is definitely to be blamed for not going for many new buying ....subs are too old....but we keep on using the same old one....
damn....

Yes...you're right.This article comes close to what you said.
India likely to take second nuclear submarine from Russia on lease - Economic Times

no body is asking you to believe.......
that news was not quoted to you...anyway....

You had mentioned me in that post and so I guess nobody else should take umbrage to it.
And yes I believe you when you said that the officers could be drunk....many a times such reports dont even get published.....for the fear of tarnishing the reputation of the forces.

Mate we are on the same side here but all I am trying to say/ask is please don't put out nonsense like xyz was drunk or such-this is a SERIOUS allegation, I don't think you quite understand how serious. And unless you can provide evidence to back this up all you are engaging in is slinger and are tainting individuals and the IN as a whole.

Its not hard to understand why such reports dont get published.Of course nobody wants to tarnish the image of IN.
The articles published in newspapers are no sacrosanct proofs either.....
So I guess there's no use picking on him.
FYI He had pasted the article on my request..

 

[Dem!god]

Mate we are on the same side here but all I am trying to say/ask is please don't put out nonsense like xyz was drunk or such-this is a SERIOUS allegation, I don't think you quite understand how serious. And unless you can provide evidence to back this up all you are engaging in is slinger and are tainting individuals and the IN as a whole.

buddy...I am not putting smthng XYZ here..this is what I heard on news channel and I said...
this is the reason I am saying its unconfirmed......b'coz I have no source to back up........
and no body is tainting navy..........

 

[faithfulguy]

All Russian submarines must return to the base and check thoroughly.Ageing of outdated Russian system cause all this problem.

Don't blame the Russians for your own self incompetence?

 

[thesolar65]

buddy...I am not putting smthng XYZ here..this is what I heard on news channel and I said...
this is the reason I am saying its unconfirmed......b'coz I have no source to back up........
and no body is tainting navy..........

Well, this is how it happened according to Indian Express

The fire started from sailor's accommodation. That should be inquired.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Don't blame the Russians for your own self incompetence?

No body blamed the Russians , its just outdated equipment. Between no one asked your opinion. By now u would have suggested US diesel sub for IN.( Thank God they dont make them now)

 

[SrNair]

Don't blame the Russians for your own self incompetence?

Do you know anything about Indian Navy? If you dont know anything then stay away from debate.
These sub is in testing and it cause accident.
I dont blame Russian system they are best.But these submarines are too aged and we must need to check it again.

 

[kurup]

Naval Chief proving too tough on the Babus?

The resignation of the Chief Of The Naval Staff comes at a time when India has just concluded the Naval exercise Millan in the Bay of Bengal recently on Feb 10 this year, showcasing to the international community our world class Navy. Admiral Joshi resigned on Wednesday taking full moral responsibility of the accidents that have rocked the organization in past six months, the latest being an accident on INS Sinduratna in which two Naval officer went missing and seven sailors seriously injured which was on the Sea trials in the Arabian sea on Wednesday the Feb 26 after re-fitment at Mazgaon Dock Limited.

Sources from the Navy disclosed that there was a buzz for over ten day that something was brewing up against the Naval Chief as he was proving too tough for the Babus of the MoD to handle. It just happened that this tragic accident occurred and the Chief rendered his resignation, no wonder it was promptly accepted. A morally upright officer has herby set very high standards for the existing and the future military leadership.

As soon as the news broke of the Naval Chief’s resignation, senior officials were contacted in the MoD who revealed that the Defence Minister Mr AK Anthony had tried to peruse the Admiral to withdraw his resignation but failed to convince Admiral Joshi.

The events dominating the headlines in past three years related to the MoD vs Military raises a serious doubt if the things are all in order or there is far more then what meets the eye. While the former Defence Secretary was busy concocting false story in collaboration with leading national English daily on an imagined military coup, the issue of modernization and capacity building has taken a back seat on the agenda. The weak political leadership it appears has been over shadowed by the babus of the MoD as it appears. It has emerged that the Naval Chief had been pressing for appropriate budgetary allocation necessary to undertake the maintenance of the ageing fleet but the MoD proved a major stumbling block to the legitimate demand. On the contrary pressure was being built on the service for poor safety and maintenance standards.

It has come to light that it was at the behest of Secretary Defence Production that the re-fitment of INS Sinduratna was being under taken at Mazgaon Docks Limited or otherwise it would have sailed to Russia for the same.

It would be interesting to see if the Govt of India orders a probe to find out the reasons why this submarine in question not sent to Russia for re-fitment which should have been the normal course and what was the role of the Defence Ministry officials of the MoD in the whole turn of events despite requests by the Navy.

Naval Chief proving too tough on the Babus? » Indian Defence Review

@Abingdonboy , @Parul , @levina , @kaykay , @Dem!god , @OrionHunter , @janon , @ExtraOdinary , @Indischer , @third eye , @sreekumar , @jarves , @IND151 , @GR!FF!N ,

 

[Mujraparty]

Ex-Servicemen back Admiral Joshi, blame government for mishaps