Naval- LCA Completes first Supersonic Flight

[illusion8]

@indiatester this is the reason why we are hearing lot of Engine roars these days

I have seen this LCA Navy Landing

You live somewhere close to HAL airport?

 

[Srinivas]

You live somewhere close to HAL airport?

Yes

 

[karan.1970]

The ministry of defence is the civilian organization that is supposed to ensure civilian control of the military. Having a military insider as its head would defeat the purpose, and threaten the idea of seperation of powers.

Once retired, an army general is a civilian for all practical purpose. What if he wants to fight elections and become the Prime Minister? Would you deny him this opportunity just because he served his country in the military ?

 

[PoKeMon]

I do not agree. Rare not to agree with you.

VK Singh is sort of a loose cannon with deep prejudices. And he does not have an open mind. He will be a bad administrator I think.

A bad administrator who heads one of the largest armies with success and respect.

 

[janon]

Once retired, an army general is a civilian for all practical purpose. What if he wants to fight elections and become the Prime Minister? Would you deny him this opportunity just because he served his country in the military ?

No, of course not. But PM is different from the DM. Yes the PM outranks the DM and is the ultmate head of govt and therefore also has jurisdiction over the defence ministry, but that is only one part of his job. Basically the PM's job is to oversee the functioning of the entire govt, including the textiles and fisheries ministries. An ex military man as PM won't hold as much power to influence the defence ministry as a defence minister would.

I'm not saying it should be illegal, just that it would be a bad idea. And your point of appointing an ex military chief as the DM was precisely because of his military background, and not in spite of it, right? That is why your assertion that he would be a civilian for all practical purposes sounds unconvincing. Yes, technically he would be a civilian, but his military background will definitely influence his performance, which is why you recommend the idea in the first place, and it is for the same reason that I don't recommend it.

A bad administrator who heads one of the largest armies with success and respect.

In the army, the juniors are trained to first obey, then question. But our bereaucrats on the other hand...

Heading an army of soldiers is very different from heading an army of civil servants, who's innate trait is to resist any change.

 

[PoKeMon]

The ministry of defence is the civilian organization that is supposed to ensure civilian control of the military. Having a military insider as its head would defeat the purpose, and threaten the idea of seperation of powers.

However, there should be closer cooperation between the ministry and the armed forces. Maybe have mid level ranks in the ministry filled up by retired military personnel, or ones serving on deputation. As of now, the MoD is completely filled with career bereaucrats, and the result is showing.

Can a retired army person be the head of India? In this case will you say a martial rule been imposed?

In the army, the juniors are trained to first obey, then question. But our bereaucrats on the other hand...

Heading an army of soldiers is very different from heading an army of civil servants, who's innate trait is to resist any change.

If change is what is required, only an army men can bring in.

 

[janon]

Can a retired army person be the head of India? In this case will you say a martial rule been imposed?

I think the answer to that is clear in my next post to karan1970. No it won't be martial law, which by definition means military rule. And I don't mind retired military persons being PM. But defence minister, that would be a bad idea.

 

[PoKeMon]

I think the answer to that is clear in my post itself. No it won't be martial law, which by definition means military rule. And I don't mind retired military persons being PM. But defence minister, that would be a bad idea.

That's strange that you wont mind army men to be PM (most powerful of all) but have problem being Defence minister who is much lower in command chain.

How can army men DM can undone the civilian control on army but not a PM?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

The ministry of defence is the civilian organization that is supposed to ensure civilian control of the military. Having a military insider as its head would defeat the purpose, and threaten the idea of seperation of powers.

However, there should be closer cooperation between the ministry and the armed forces. Maybe have mid level ranks in the ministry filled up by retired military personnel, or ones serving on deputation. As of now, the MoD is completely filled with career bereaucrats, and the result is showing.

I think a military man several years removed from active service could be invaluable. You know, make him ambassador to UK for 5 years and then make him deputy defence minister...

 

[janon]

That's strange that you wont mind army men to be PM (most powerful of all) but have problem being Defence minister who is much lower in command chain.

How can army men DM can undone the civilian control on army but not a PM?

Please read my post #20.

To repeat, I say that because the defence ministry is the organization that is crucial to ensuring effective civilian oversight of the military. Having a military insider as its head would defeat that purpose. But PM on the other hand doesn't play a direct role in day to day affairs of the defence ministry, he is more of a central figure to coordinate the actions of all ministries. It's not the rank (DM or PM) that matters, but which person is responsible for day to day functioning of that dept.

 

[PoKeMon]

Please read my post #20.

To repeat, I say that because the defence ministry is the organization that is crucial to ensuring effective civilian oversight of the military. Having a military insider as its head would defeat that purpose. But PM on the other hand doesn't play a direct role in day to day affairs of the defence ministry, he is more of a central figure to coordinate the actions of all ministries. It's not the rank (DM or PM) that matters, but which person is responsible for day to day functioning of that dept.

Haha ... a PM can make any DM dance on his tunes no matter how bad he plays. You are deadly undermining the PMO office just like MMS.

 

[janon]

I think a military man several years removed from active service could be invaluable. You know, make him ambassador to UK for 5 years and then make him deputy defence minister...

Which is kind of what I suggested in my first post, that the DM should not be from the military at all, but a few other positions in the ministry ought to be. Also, I wouldn't want an ex service chief there, but maybe other high ranking officers like lieutenant generals or colonels, who will know the ways of the military well, but would not have assumed a position high enough that every single person in the military used to be his junior.

 

[notsuperstitious]

A bad administrator who heads one of the largest armies with success and respect.

Running a professional disciplined army is different from running a civilian administration in a political setup. My criticism was limited to his possible future role only.

 

[karan.1970]

No, of course not. But PM is different from the DM. Yes the PM outranks the DM and is the ultmate head of govt and therefore also has jurisdiction over the defence ministry, but that is only one part of his job. Basically the PM's job is to oversee the functioning of the entire govt, including the textiles and fisheries ministries. An ex military man as PM won't hold as much power to influence the defence ministry as a defence minister would.

I'm not saying it should be illegal, just that it would be a bad idea. And your point of appointing an ex military chief as the DM was precisely because of his military background, and not in spite of it, right? That is why your assertion that he would be a civilian for all practical purposes sounds unconvincing. Yes, technically he would be a civilian, but his military background will definitely influence his performance, which is why you recommend the idea in the first place, and it is for the same reason that I don't recommend it.

We can surely agree to disagree. I still believe that an SME is better choice than someone who has no clue about the matter as the minister of the portfolio. A retired military man in my view is ideal as a DM since its best of both worlds. He has the relevant background, at the same time is not the active member of the military organization. Plus will surely ensure a better coordination since the top brass in military would probably be his juniors from past

 

[PoKeMon]

Running a professional disciplined army is different from running a civilian administration in a political setup. My criticism was limited to his possible future role only.

On the basis of what?