Natural resources of Pakistan

[muse]

Didn't I mention bad governance before?

I had understood the thrust of your position to be that claims of mineral wealth in Pakistan are overstated, without much evidence to support your claim.

 

[VCheng]

I had understood the thrust of your position to be that claims of mineral wealth in Pakistan are overstated, without much evidence to support your claim.

Don't results speak louder than words? If there were huge exploitable resources of copper or rare earth metals, multinationals would have it up and out before you could blink an eye, figuratively speaking, right down to getting their chosen people in power if needed.

There are some resources, and they will require work to utilize.

I stand by my position.

 

[Faiez]

These resources are mined, extracted, refined - for just one purpose, to be sold -- but this is a very small part of the story - the real story is composed of all the steps, obstacles than any producers will have to negotiate in order to extract the resource and bring it to market -- there are any number of rent collectors in the way, claims on the land, outright terrorism to get the producer to either pay more to a rent collector or his his men or both, the payment of rent to the officials of the state for infrastructure, for timely decisions, for efficient and fair adjudication, for not creating legislative obstacles, labor obstacles, for not holding up machinery and parts

See, it's not just "corrupt leaders", it is the system of rent collecting - to confuse people, some say the state should take over, after all, is the state in the business of being in the mining business? but the real reason for such suggestions is two fold, first to pressure the private producer to "pay up" and more importantly, to place government bureaucrats with political connections in the position to promise ot produce at below the cost of production - this is the most important motivation for corruption, after all, the cost of production will then be borne by the state and generate losses, which will then have to be recouped through more state expenditure.

ur language is hard to understand...

use more full stops..


and u say "produce at below the cost of production". what the hell does that mean?

producers/miners are not forced into buying anything...

and how can u say that managing natural resources is not the business of the government?
the government manages the monetary/fiscal policy, the laws, the foreign policy and everything else in the country but it shouldnt manage natural resources..?

 

[muse]

u say "produce at below the cost of production". what the hell does that mean?

The reason State enterprises generate losses - see PIA, See PR, See Steel mill - is that their production is sold below the cost of production - and therefore the generation of losses And because these are state enterprises (read loss making), they have no incentive for a more efficient operation because the state will make up the losses.

So how does corruption happen in these enterprises? because these enterprises produce losses, that is they sell at below the cost of production, their interaction with managers in the private economy serves as a conduit to generate profits for the private and losses for the public.

 

[Faiez]

Don't results speak louder than words? If there were huge exploitable resources of copper or rare earth metals, multinationals would have it up and out before you could blink an eye, figuratively speaking, right down to getting their chosen people in power if needed.

There are some resources, and they will require work to utilize.

I stand by my position.

the reason people hate u here is because, u havent done anything to utilize those resources. You havent done proper research to see if these claims are true or not. You dont even live here.

You brag about USA all the time. What have you done for USA? What have your ancestors done for USA? Did Pakistan not provide you with everything you needed to live a proper life?
How can you say you are loyal to your country when you dont even live here? You are just like Altaf bhai...make money from pakistan, go abroad and start hating pakistanis and pakistan as a whole.

You dont deserve to be called a pakistani.

If I were in power, I would revoke nationality of any pakistani who had lived outside pakistan for more than 6months consistently. Only exception=education.

 

[muse]

VC

Don't bother - going personal is these people's method.

 

[Faiez]

The reason State enterprises generate losses - see PIA, See PR, See Steel mill - is that their production is sold below the cost of production - and therefore the generation of losses And because these are state enterprises (read loss making), they have no incentive for a more efficient operation because the state will make up the losses.

So how does corruption happen in these enterprises? because these enterprises produce losses, that is they sell at below the cost of production, their interaction with managers in the private economy serves as a conduit to generate profits for the private and losses for the public.

I dont really see the point of a profit in a state owned company..
State owned company should run as a non profit organization...

 

[VCheng]

the reason people hate u here is because, u havent done anything to utilize those resources. You havent done proper research to see if these claims are true or not. You dont even live here.

You brag about USA all the time. What have you done for USA? What have your ancestors done for USA? Did Pakistan not provide you with everything you needed to live a proper life?
How can you say you are loyal to your country when you dont even live here? You are just like Altaf bhai...make money from pakistan, go abroad and start hating pakistanis and pakistan as a whole.

You dont deserve to be called a pakistani.

If I were in power, I would revoke nationality of any pakistani who had lived outside pakistan for more than 6months consistently. Only exception=education.

VC

Don't bother - going personal is these people's method.

Yessir Muse. Understood.

 

[Jango]

what do u mean?

the state has full control of everything..

if it wishes, it can nationalize everything and take over all the companies and tell all foreigners to **** off...

that is the reason why communism is so much hated by business men and they always support "freedom"...

if the state wants, it can nullify everything and keep everything.

So, if the state does have full control, why can it not make a national company for mining , or give contracts to locals, what is the hindrance behind it , and the leaning towards the foreign companies.

Do we get more money this way, more cheaper, more profits?

 

[Faiez]

So, if the state does have full control, why can it not make a national company for mining , or give contracts to locals, what is the hindrance behind it , and the leaning towards the foreign companies.

Do we get more money this way, more cheaper, more profits?

they bid higher...

otherwise we do have state owned companies in many sectors...

 

[longbrained]

What Pakistan needs is the formation of a national conglomerate like Aramco or NIOC. National assets should remain national property eg. as is the case in Chile. And those people who say that Pakistan has to invest 50 billion dollars to mine 50 billion dollars worth of profits are enemies of Pakistan and do not know what they are talking about. Mining is one of the most profitable businesses in the world. Countries like Australia or Canada started their modern economies by mining. For every dollar invested in mining, tens of dollars of profit is made. A mine with 500 billion dollars of reserves just needs 2 billion dollars of investment to set it up and taking out the running cost of the mine over the life of the mine of let's say 50 years is not going to be more than 20 billion dollars. Most of that 500 billion dollars is actually profits even if environmental rehabilitation and insurance and all kinds of expenses are taken out, at least 400 billion dollars of profits is guaranteed. If this was not so, there would be no mining industry in Australia, Canada, Chile or Turkey.

Turkey makes huge amount of money by mining iron, feldspar and other minerals. Mines are exactly like oil wells, and their products are traded on international commodity exchanges like oil. So the mine profits are hard cash and dependable sources of income. Pakistan with its close relationship with China the largest global production house can start up a new relationship by becoming a minerals provider to China. No more need for trading with US. Just set up a national company invest 10 billion dollar of those 18 billion dollars sitting in Pakistan State Bank and become a mineral exporting country to China, Japan and South Korea. Food is already produced locally as are many other industrial products. Import energy and life will be much better than now. If we keep listening to American slaves as we have for the past 60 years, things are only going to get worse. Not better. When Turkey started their mining sector, they did not care about what Americans had to say. So should we.

 

[longbrained]

Another alternative solution to national company is to have a law in the country that basically should allow for privatization and foreign ownership of mines. The companies in question will have to invest, hire human resources, develop and refine the product into a pure form and then this product will be divided between state and company in 50-50% share. Simple and fair. All work and investment and hassles are going to be taken care by foreign company and Pakistan will get 50% royalty of the final product, be it copper, lead, gold, whatever. This is how alot of mines are run around the world. Even alot of Arab nations develop and sell their oil fields exactly like that. This is simple but lazy option.

 

[lem34]

Another alternative solution to national company is to have a law in the country that basically should allow for privatization and foreign ownership of mines. The companies in question will have to invest, hire human resources, develop and refine the product into a pure form and then this product will be divided between state and company in 50-50% share. Simple and fair. All work and investment and hassles are going to be taken care by foreign company and Pakistan will get 50% royalty of the final product, be it copper, lead, gold, whatever. This is how alot of mines are run around the world. Even alot of Arab nations develop and sell their oil fields exactly like that. This is simple but lazy option.

thats far too rational and logical and sane for pakistani leadership.

 

[longbrained]

thats far too rational and logical and sane for pakistani leadership.

Yeah, and Pakistan will be able to make trillions of dollars in the next three decades which should be enough to transform Pakistan into an advanced and developed country. Getting afew billion dollars of aid over the next three decades is not going to solve anything.

 

[lem34]

Yeah, and Pakistan will be able to make trillions of dollars in the next three decades which should be enough to transform Pakistan into an advanced and developed country. Getting afew billion dollars of aid over the next three decades is not going to solve anything.

but that few billion enough to keep corrupt leaders happy