NATO Attacks Pakistani Check-post

[FaujHistorian]

i am nop aviator, but then i know that a pilot knows where he is. What's with the GPS thingy of yours? ....!

I don't think it was a technical error. This was not just one off helicopter flight every 10 months. There are many many sorties in that area on weekly basis.

Question is why then out of 100s of sorties, this one resulted in exchange of fire?

Constipated conspiracy theories aside, the following may be used as possible reason.


--- NATO helicopter strayed over the line (either deliberately or unknowingly), and Pak soldiers/ FC men, fired warning shots at them. The helicopter returned warning shots.

-- NATO helicopter was chasing/monitoring bad guys and Pak soldiers thought it is coming after them, hence the fire from ground and the return fire from air.


The bottom line is that real time link between NATO and Pak army isn't there (not at the individual posts level). So the misunderstanding can happen.

In any case, we the Pak must look at this incident in light of the number NATO and Pak army sorties flown in the area. Otherwise the Islamists Jingus would get their wish and Pak army would get into hot embrace with NATO. And that scenario from Fauj History point of view is not good. Not good at all.

peace.


p.s. Just a question for the Islamist Jumping Jacks. The other day Talibleeses murdered 80+ with most of them FC cadets. Did you the Islamists jumping jacks shed even a false tear? Did you threaten to bomb Saudi and Gulf? Did we ask ARabs to stop funding the Talibleeses? Heck no.

This incident however sad, is not even remotely comparable to the carnage inflicted by the Talibleeses. And yet some of the Islamist jumping jacks are ready to send rockets on NATO bases without ever realizing that their mama Ben ladeen did the same and look what happened then.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

if DFW means Dallas-Fort Worth Texas --- then i'll be there in early August as i have some planned meetings there.

got family in Arlington; cousins in college station. I often joke with my American friends, seperate from the rest of the states and declare Texas as America

Ab I am like 15 minutes from the Arlington! The weather is nice so far. Actually it was a bit chilly 2 evenings ago to ride my motorcycle wearing just a binyan!

 

[Musafar]

WOW!.. you so conveniently posed ignorance, anyways, i know what Veto is, and in case you don't remember, one of the veto power is our esteemed friend.. but in UN if there is NO protest registered against US's unauthorized invasion, Nobody can take stand on their OWN for Pakistan..

Hope i gave you a drop from my "fountain of knowledge" and now your "barren brain lands" are a "little wet"..

Blah blah blah...now can you ACTUALLY answer my question?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You don't fire warning shots at us.... period.

when you intrude in others' territory, warning will be given. Has been in the past and will be so in the future.

and when warning is given, you heed to it. You don't exacerbate the situation and make it worse.


don't have double standards. . If Russian Tu-95s are flying over Alaska (armed) what will you do?

 

[FaujHistorian]

when you intrude in others' territory, warning will be given. Has been in the past and will be so in the future.

and when warning is given, you heed to it. You don't exacerbate the situation and make it worse.


don't have double standards. . If Russian Tu-95s are flying over Alaska (armed) what will you do?

Bad comparisons Mr. dad of Zulfiqar.

You don't fire at someone, if you don't have a 5 level-deep plan to counter the response to your fire.

Here is a scenario.

-- Pak post fires at NATO helicopter
-- Helicopter fires back.

--- Now what? What is your smart-elikki plan? f@rt?

or perhaps lob some fire-crackers at NATO bases? and if they respond then what?

I urge you to use brain cells before supporting a hostile action (or reaction).


peace.

 

[Hulk]

Bad comparisons Mr. dad of Zulfiqar.

You don't fire at someone, if you don't have a 5 level-deep plan to counter the response to your fire.

Here is a scenario.

-- Pak post fires at NATO helicopter
-- Helicopter fires back.

--- Now what? What is your smart-elikki plan? f@rt?

or perhaps lob some fire-crackers at NATO bases? and if they respond then what?

I urge you to use brain cells before supporting a hostile action (or reaction).


peace.

Awesome, what do you do? By the way common sense says do not fight with them. You will benefit a lot being their friend.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Awesome, what do you do? ....

In the short term! Improve military to military coordination so that individual posts would know that an oncoming NATO bird is not hostile.

and if an unknown sortie is incoming, the the local commander should be able to get warning via phone/Satellite to the NATO ops center. In this day and age using AK-47 to fire on a gunship is $tupid at best.

There are long term solutions but that would diverge from this thread.

peace.

 

[53fd]

if DFW means Dallas-Fort Worth Texas --- then i'll be there in early August as i have some planned meetings there.

got family in Arlington; cousins in college station. I often joke with my American friends, seperate from the rest of the states and declare Texas as America

Sir, if you're ever heading by New York city or Philly, let me know. Thanks.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Bad comparisons Mr. dad of Zulfiqar.

You don't fire at someone, if you don't have a 5 level-deep plan to counter the response to your fire.

Here is a scenario.

-- Pak post fires at NATO helicopter
-- Helicopter fires back.

--- Now what? What is your smart-elikki plan? f@rt?

or perhaps lob some fire-crackers at NATO bases? and if they respond then what?

I urge you to use brain cells before supporting a hostile action (or reaction).


peace.

what kind of a joke is this, and how old are you?

did the crew and pilots in the Apache aircraft hear small arms fire hitting or ricocheting? No, they did not. Chances are, they didn't even hear the actual gunfire --just saw the muzzle flash.

the Pakistani personnel @ checkpost I am 2000% confident were in uniform, not wearing towels over their bodies and in sandals. That alone is enough indication.


warning shots do not constitute hostile action. What is it about that which you people don't understand?

 

[Hulk]

In the short term! Improve military to military coordination so that individual posts would know that an oncoming NATO bird is not hostile.

and if an unknown sortie is incoming, the the local commander should be able to get warning via phone/Satellite to the NATO ops center. In this day and age using AK-47 to fire on a gunship is $tupid at best.

There are long term solutions but that would diverge from this thread.

peace.

I mean what do you do in life?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Sir, if you're ever heading by New York city or Philly, let me know. Thanks.

I'm just 4 hours drive from the city. I'm dying to go for another visit. Studies and work are keeping me too busy. I'll let you know.

 

[AAtish]

Blah blah blah...now can you ACTUALLY answer my question?

I guess you yourself don't know what you want to ask, or how to make sense out of it

 

[FaujHistorian]

I mean what do you do in life?

student of military history.

peace.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....

warning shots do not constitute hostile action. What is it about that which you people don't understand?

As I said before, in the age of instant communication, it is not prudent to use AK-47 against a gunship. This is plain stupid and pathetic. What is warning and what is hostile is immaterial.

If you are not at war with someone, then pick up the phone and make a freaking call. Is that something you are having difficulty to comprehend?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

As I said before, in the age of instant communication, it is not prudent to use AK-47 against a gunship. This is plain stupid and pathetic. What is warning and what is hostile is immaterial.

If you are not at war with someone, then pick up the phone and make a freaking call. Is that something you are having difficulty to comprehend?

You started out well in the forum, i was impressed by a few of your posts. Now you are acting like a bloody imbecile. First of all, change your tone. Don't talk to me in that fashion because I don't like it. Talk to me casually, in a cool sort of manner; don't get on a high-horse and act as if you are an expert here, Mr. Historian.

Second of all, not always is it the case you can pick up the ''phone'' you are talking about....and we dont have all the facts. I don't, neither do you. I am basing my knowledge on what is given to me. Unless you have extra things to share with me or are privy to more information of course.

both sides do maintain contact -- there are flag meetings held. But in the heat of the moment flares or firing in my mind are more than a sufficient warning not to deviate into ''friendly'' airspace

these are uniformed personnel at checkpoints......simple looking checkpoints, nothing fancy with satellites and antennas all over the place...but they are checkpoints. Pakistani flag is there. Uniformed personnel are there doing sentry and maintaining defensive position. 10 years down the line i would think that NATO forces across the border will know all the nooks and crannys, all the blues vs. reds



and don't say what is ''warning and what is hostile is immaterial''


because it is NOT.
You are WRONG.


thank you.